I am brand new to this forum and I posted this topic in the wrong area originally so I copied it hear to see if I can get some help.
Hello, I am fairly new to traditional. I purchased my first long bow a few months ago, Omega Imperial, and am having real trouble selecting the correct spine wood arrows. I have a 64" R/D 40lb@28" longbow. My draw length is 28.5 the bow is cut to center and I have a 1/8 leather side plate. I also have a fastflight string. Lastly I shoot split finger. Okay, I purchased a set of Cedar 50-55 arrows and tried to bare shaft with no luck. I have since learned that this was a mistake trying to bare shaft as a beginner. I since then purchased a set of GT 500 full length with 125 tips and shot them with great success for a few months, my groups are real good at 15 yards and pretty good at 20. I eventually tried to bare shaft test these and found that I needed to trim 2 inches off to get the bare shafts to fly straight. Desperate to try wood arrows again I ordered a test kit of Douglas Firs starting with 45-50 and ending with 55-60. I fletched two of each weight and bareshaft the other two. All of my bare shafts show nock left (week). I trimmed the 55-60 down to 29" and they still fly nock left, not quite as bad as the others but still really nock left. According to Stu Millers Calculator the 55-60 at 30" should be perfect for me. I assume either my form is terrible or I need even stiffer shafts. I understand that maybe I need to improve more before I bareshaft and I am okay with this however I would at least like to have a good starting point before I buy another set of wood arrows. I was told to just fletch them all and see which weight flies best but the all fly straight with fletching so I am confused. I really want to end up shooting wood arrows but they seem much harder to tune so far. Any help would be truly appreciated. Sorry for the long post, I guess what I am looking for is what spine should be good for me according to my specs.
They seem like they they should be good with what you have said .
You could try building out your side plate and see if that helps .
I think those 55/60's would be stiff enough. I'd hold off on the bare shafting for a while yet; too many form issues may be coming into play. And you may be getting a false weak reading.
Do you have some other point weights on hand? I'd even try 145's or 160's, on the fletched shafts, first. Or 100's, if you want to stiffen them a bit. What Graps said about the side plate will effectively stiffen spine too. But again, I wouldn't count on needing to go stiffer yet.
I have 145gr points but wont that make the spine weaker? I want to order a dozen shafts, fletch them and start shooting. Should I just order 55-60 and cut them to my draw length?
With 125 gr point weight, 30" long, the 55/60 should be very close. Same head weight with a 50/55 29" long will also be close.
There is no doubt in my mind its your release/form causing the problem.
Thanks Shadowhnter. Any ideas on what I can try or focus on with regards to my release that may cause the nocks to fly so far left?
I've been shooting wood for about 60 years now and have never bare shafted them. Most wood shooters don't bother bare shafting. Wood doesn't recover as fast as carbon. Regardless, you should be looking at where the arrows group rather than how they enter the target, which can be affected by target material, angle of the shot, plucking or other form issue, etc. You want your bare shaft and fletched arrows hit the target in the same place.
If your arrows already shoot good when fletched, what's the problem? A person can get too tied up in tuning to the nth degree, and doing so really requires very good form.
I agree that it's likely something in your form that's causing the nock left. Could also be a brace height that's too low. Rear of the arrow could be touching the side of the bow at the shot and kicking left.
I agree 100% that I have gotten myself absorbed with all of the tuning info on the web. I think I enjoyed shooting a lot more when I was a kid and just grabbed whatever arrows were not broken without any thought or consideration to spine. I will dump the bareshaft tuning and just fletch and shoot. My only issue is that I cant see a flight difference between the 45-50 and the 55-60 so I just want to get a spine that should work and go from there. I have had people tell me 50-55 and one tell me 60-65 according to my specs so I was just trying to get a consensus before I ordered a couple of dozen more and began building them
QuoteOriginally posted by Sharky1:
I agree 100% that I have gotten myself absorbed with all of the tuning info on the web. I think I enjoyed shooting a lot more when I was a kid and just grabbed whatever arrows were not broken without any thought or consideration to spine. I will dump the bareshaft tuning and just fletch and shoot. My only issue is that I cant see a flight difference between the 45-50 and the 55-60 so I just want to get a spine that should work and go from there. I have had people tell me 50-55 and one tell me 60-65 according to my specs so I was just trying to get a consensus before I ordered a couple of dozen more and began building them
When you put a broadhead on it will tell you. If your BH's are hitting right with your field points, you are good. At what distance depends on you. If you cannot get consistent groups at 20 yards don't try to tune at 20. Wood is a different animal when tuning, easier for me than carbons, and they are soooo addictive to make and shoot.
Best of luck.
I agree with Inda. Put broad heads on your test arrows and see how they shoot. With a 125 grain point, I think 50-55# should work quite well. BTW, most bows will shoot a range of spines well as long as they're not underpinned. Good luck.
Could also be false weak. X3 broad head. Personally I take three arrows full length two with feathers one without. 10 yards shoot three arrows three times adjust .25 inch at a time. Always come out perfect. I agree with others that brace or side plate could be issue.
Last question, 29" would be the minimum I could cut my shafts. For a beginner is it better to have your arrows tuned longer or as short as your draw length will permit considering room for broad head. Do longer arrows fly more stable than shorter arrows? Would it be better for me to tune my arrows to 29" or 30" in the end or does it not really matter?
It's not a compound where you want the shortest arrow possible. I think you want a couple inch clearance for broadhead. Also long arrows fly fine.
For the life of me I don't understand why everyone shoots such stiff shafts. For this set up I would be using 40-45 or 45-50.
I have never bareshaft tested in my life. Don't need to. I can plainly watch the flight and see what's going on. It seems all sorts of tinkering cause more headaches than it's worth.
I match spine weight with bow weight on bows cut to center like recurves or hybrids. I drop one spine group for longbows less than center. It works all day long.
Most people start with a shaft too stiff then try to tame it down with heavy points or extra length. With proper form and a clean release you should be shooting wood arrow spines close to the bow weight. It will come in time and good practice.
QuoteOriginally posted by dahyer:
It's not a compound where you want the shortest arrow possible. I think you want a couple inch clearance for broadhead. Also long arrows fly fine.
A couple inches of clearance for a broadhead? Is your draw that inconsistent?
1/2" to 1" is fine. All that extra arrow hanging out there is unnecessary and a hindrance in any type of quiver.
Arrow length is a personal preference thing, though I tend to agree with Red B. I cut all my shafts to one inch longer than my draw length and tune from there. Keep in mind that you also need to leave enough length for the point taper on a wood arrow.
"A couple inches of clearance for a broadhead? Is your draw that inconsistent?
1/2" to 1" is fine. All that extra arrow hanging out there is unnecessary and a hindrance in any type of quiver. "
Quite consistent actually thanks for asking. Just noting that arrow length is not as big of a deal as it is for compound shooting. Yes I like a little bit longer arrow and that is my preference. I also happen to gap shoot and it helps with aiming. Disagreement on my opinion is fine and as for my form and draw consistency... I suppose you would have actually had to have see me shoot to know that. I make all my arrows with same point weight for all my bows and really only mess with arrow length for adjustment, and sometimes the arrows are longer. But they fly straight and that is really all that matters to me. Also as for quiver trouble.... Depends on the type you use. Back and hip maybe so. Bow quiver maybe not.
Truth be told last time I sat in the stand I took three arrows with me and no quiver. Crazy I know.
There was a thread recently about the good old days (pre carbon) when you just bought shafts at or near your bow wt, cut them as short as needed, glued on a 125 gr broadhead, and go kill stuff.
I guess I tend to be of that mindset. I stopped tinkering in '87 when I gave up the compound. Simple equipment shot with simple means.
One thing about traditional archery is there is always something new or old to try. We eventually settle on a set up that works for us. It's a fun journey.
To the original poster....... you will get there, when you do all this effort will be worth it. Have fun!
QuoteOriginally posted by Red Beastmaster:
There was a thread recently about the good old days (pre carbon) when you just bought shafts at or near your bow wt, cut them as short as needed, glued on a 125 gr broadhead, and go kill stuff.
I guess I tend to be of that mindset. I stopped tinkering in '87 when I gave up the compound. Simple equipment shot with simple means.
One thing about traditional archery is there is always something new or old to try. We eventually settle on a set up that works for us. It's a fun journey.
To the original poster....... you will get there, when you do all this effort will be worth it. Have fun!
You stopped tinkering the year I was born lol. Truth be told. I love trad archery and for me it is just one more sign that I was born in the wrong century. I wish I was a member of the good old days club.