Trad Gang
Main Boards => PowWow => Topic started by: bagada on August 25, 2016, 08:08:00 PM
-
I have been watching some of Ashby's presentations and am interested in his method of fletching. It would save on a fletching chopper and you can tune your feathers more precisely. Im confused that he uses a straight fletch. This just seems backwards to me. Mostly everyone puts spin on the arrow with offset or helical. Im tuning to a high FOC and long arrows(33in) which is supposed to require even less fletching? Any one try this straight fletch successfully? Ashby Arrow Tuning VIDEO (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S-WeqEvC8T8)
-
A long steering arm requires less,I'm not sure about a long arrow.I'm not sure how high your FOC is but Ashby is using those on arrows with 30% plus FOC.I haven't used straight fletch but even with 3" fletch,you don't see much helical.
-
Thanks for the response. I ordered a BPE jig in left helical and was pondering if I might eventually want to get a straight clamp but I doubt it since most people use helical. I also got a 4 inch shield feather chopper and full length feathers. I plan to make 6 fletch FLU FLUs and Hunting arrows. Thus, the left helical clamp. HEAVY offset/helical for FLUFLUs and light heli for hunting. Just gonna experiment since thats the only REAL way to find out what works. My FOC should be somewhere over 25% depending on how much weight I add to the tip plus Building out my strike plate. Im having fun overthinking things since Im waiting for my arrows to get here. When they are here, I shoot all day every day unless its raining. Thats why i'm tuning. Gives me a reason to shoot daily and still improve/learn. Im only 1 month new to archery so im not jaded yet. Still having fun "figuring it out".
-
Half the fun is the tinkering and playing around with new stuff.
-
the shorter you can get your arrows the easier it will be to get high FOC, been pondering his aa fletch myself.
-
I've been useing Ashbys AA cuts for awhile now. I use a chopper for 3" shield cut feathers and cut the feather where starts to drope back down. This gives me about a 2 1/2" feather was fletching 4 now shot 3 fletched. I don't know about long arrows seems that dealing more with point on. Bare shaft,then fletch, seems to work pertty good if I get a fair release. Get a lot of heckling for my buds but just go on. FOC is around 26% I am lacking the penartion very much.
-
Do not forget the turbulator if you go with the ashby straight fletching. Another thing, you best be dang good at tuning, and release.
People tell me you cant get EFOC much with wood....dont believe it. I have in my hand, a purpleheart footed POC shaft, that is well over a 30% FOC Arrow.
-
SHADOWHNTER
IF YOU USE RIGHT WING FEATHERS AND A STRAIGHT FLETCH JIG THERE IS STILL A SLIGHT HELICAL FROM THE FEATHER.THIS WOULD BE TRUE IF YOU USED A LEFT WING WITH A STRAIGHT CLAMP THERE IS STILL A NATURAL HELICAL... MOST OF THE TIME IT IS NOT NOTICEABLE BUT IT IS THERE
IMPORTANT POINT IS IF USING A STRAIGHT CLAMP WHICH ASHBY RECOMMENDS STILL MATCH YOUR BEVEL ON THE BROADHEAD TO THE FEATHER . :)
JOE
-
X2 what shadowhunter said and has to say!!!! They know their Stuff.
-
Sorry, ment Joe.... H,,, to get old.
-
I have spent the summer playing with his fletch watching his videos and the tutorials at tuff heads website.
All I have is right wing jig so mine got a right helical! lol
I like the shorter fletch, from 40 yards out (practice only) there is a difference in trajectory between these and my 4/5 inch feathers.
We will see, fun to mess around with this stuff though can get nerve wracking at times! Sometimes just out the bow down and go do something else!!
-
Add I have never done four fletch before either but that is the way to go. like ashby said - don't have to pay attention to cock feathers just nock it and go.
-
Shadowhunter: I'd like to know how you achieved 30% FOC. Best i've been able to do is about 20%. Would you mind describing your set up. Length and weight of the arrow, balance point behind broad head, broad head weight, arrow spine, etc.
-
I have yet to ever measure FOC and all?? just knew I wanted 160 grain RMS cutthroats with the long titanium adapters, cant remember the weight of those. I did just add the long aluminum footings to my arrows and hope this isnt going to throw them off too much - will be practicing with them this evening.
-
Originally posted by Orion:
Shadowhunter: I'd like to know how you achieved 30% FOC. Best i've been able to do is about 20%. Would you mind describing your set up. Length and weight of the arrow, balance point behind broad head, broad head weight, arrow spine, etc.
That would be interesting.I've not seen that with wood either.
-
I got one particular arrow to 26% with a pine shaft tapered the last 12 inches of the back, a teak footing, a few inches of 1/8" solder inserted into the tip and a 190 point.
Used a 5.5" three Fletch. I didn't know anything about A&A Fletch or I would a tried it. I'm so habitual of nocking arrows by touch with an index nock that the four Fletch would not be of any value in that regard.
All in all, I can see the way to a 30% FOC Woodie.
-
I think its a bit off topic to do my foc spreadsheet here. I'll send you a pm orion.
-
Know what? Easier to just post here instead of multiple pms. Sorry O.P.
Arrow and wood type- P.O.C. with 6" purpleheart footing. Compressed 11/32 shaft with 9.5" back taper, tapering 11/32-5/16. 60/65 spine. 12.8 gr per inch average on raw shaft.
5/16 classic nock
3x4" trueflight fletching starting at 1.250" from V.O.N.
425gr point- 125gr woodyweight /300gr tuffhead
4 coats gasket laquer
Total weight - 821.8gr
29"arrow V.O.N.- B.O.P.
Balance point- 23.250" from V.O.N.
------------------------------------------
V.O.N-B.O.P.= 29"
29÷2=14.5
B.P.from V.O.N.= 23.250
23.250-14.5= 8.75
8.75×100= 875
875÷29"= 30.1724= 30% FOC
-
Nice,Shadowhunter.You are the first I've seen get that high with wood.Maybe others stop before they get that heavy.What weight bows do you shoot those out of?
-
I guess it wouldn't really matter what lb draw my bow is,, as long as my momentum is at or hopefully above .50 pound seconds, and if I can consistently hit with them right? At present, I only have Mr Ashbys momentum chart to figure momentum and get close, because ive yet to be able to purchase a chronograph. I have no troubles making good killing shots out to 20 yards, and at times my groups are tight enough I worry. Beyond that yardage, its possible as I practice out to 25 yards, but consistency begins to get rocky... at least by me shooting them.
What am I hunting with them? Rabbits..
Or anything else I want to hunt in North America. My bows are 45lb hard shooters, NOT cut to center.
-
I'm currently shooting some 4 fletch A & A cut 3" feathers. Arrows are Easton axis trads, 400 spine, footed with 1.5" of 2018 aluminum xx75s, 250 gr F.P. not efoc, not really sure what the foc is. I do know they'll tame a big magnus 1 2-blade pretty well. Got some 250 gr cutthroats on the way for deer season, they look tough!
-
That's a lot of GPP!About 18.You don't need near .50 slug feet for deer.Upper 30's should be good.I've only chronographed up to 14 GPP and that's about 150-155 fps.I haven't a clue what speed 18 GPP would be.My guess would be app 125-130 fps.
-
Jason: The reason I was inquisitive about your FOC was that i thought the spine requirement would get so high with that much weight on the front of a wood shaft that they would be unshootable, i.e., wouldn't tune to the bow.
You're saying they shoot well. Arrow spine weight vs draw weight is an important consideration. You may have discovered something new here, at least new to me. Mind sharing your arrow spine and bow draw weight?
-
I need.50 pound seconds of momentum, to break the opposite leg bone on a quartering away shot from a tree stand, and to continue on through so I get an exit hole, since quartering away is the most lethal shot available. Under the throws of adrineline, I wish I could always put that arrow perfect on a quartering away shot, but facts from my history says a tiny flench means accidental heavy bone hits. To my knowledge, there is no material available that tells us exactly what we need for doing that consistently, so its a good safe starting point I feel.
Im a poor boy....I want 1 arrow to do all my needs. Im not going to work up 10 different arrows for 10 different game animals anyway. How many folks use their deer set ups for small game? Same difference right?...Dont need as much for small game either but its common. Just because im doing something out of the norm, dont mean its a horrible idea does it? If so I guess I can back er down! This way if I want to hunt up to moose confidently with my lighter bow weight, I can do so with the same arrow, since moose will need .57 pound seconds of momentum to break that leg, give or take a bit. .57 does zebra, so im thinking moose is close...
-
Spine 60/65, 45lb bow, that is NOT cut to center, giving me the advantage of weaker spine needs.
Trust me fellas, this has been well thought out, studied, and planned, on almost a year long pursuit of little else.
Ashby has said many times, center cut bows are not your friend with higher foc, because it increases spine needs so much and you run out before you get it. Light bows in 45lb range also have the advantage of also needing lighter spine needs in achieving it.
-
Shadowhunter, I'm in complete agreement with you. My big game set up is also my small game, stumping, etc. Set up.
I guess if I shot 3d or other competition with longer shots it might be different, but I don't do that.
My 26% arrow was about 750 grains and wasn't that far off of my usual 650s. Gonna try the A&A Fletch and see how it works out.
-
X3 vintage archer
-
I like one arrow setup myself or at least setups that all have the same trajectory.I also shoot heavy arrows but am not willing to go higher than 14 GPP.That's plenty for me.
-
We all have our preference, and thats great... but as you stated above,,,thats why youve never seen or shot a 30% wood arrow before...right? Just sayin... :)
-
GPP and EFOC are not necessarily the same thing or required to have heavy arrow to get heavier front weight.
Ashby and I once chuckled how we beat up the carbon arrow companies to give us heavier carbons for stick bows, and they have done so.
NOW, now we'd like lighter gpp of a stiff spine to load up front weight without getting rebar weight arrows.
I've switched to the lighter target shafts (Lighter GPP) but stiffer spine and then add an aluminum overfoot of 2" BOPoint to stiffen/strengthen the thinner walls at that critical impact point where I used to ruin alum arrows constantly. That has allowed me to load the front, hit solid objects like rock walls and flatten a field point, with NO damage to the shafting...
As Shadow said... it's great to have options and I'm grateful we all don't want the same thing, or I couldn't afford much due to supply/demand! :)
-
Here is a link to me shooting my rebar weight like arrows at 14 yards, which I figure normal deer killing range. 866gr douglas fir arrow, 28% foc, 45lb maddog longbow. These are the heaviest arrows I own. My 30% arrows are 41gr lighter and smaller diameter. Im thinking all of them would benifit by using the AA fletching.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ua1ixMcDcaU
-
While we are on the ashby topic, what is the most effective way of footing an arrow? From what I have seen there are 3 methods
1 single footing covering the shaft but not the insert
1 single footing covering the insert and the shaft
2 footings one up to the insert then another OVER the insert and OVER the other footing.
There is also the question or how long the footing should be. seems to me it needs to be a little longer than the insert is.
-
I think A. is the best between A. and B. But the best being C. with double footing covering single footing and sliding up farther to back of broadhead, covering insert/adapter joint.
-
My first ones butted up,behind the rim of the insert.What I didn't like,was that created a low spot,between the rear of the broadhead and the front of the footing.This low spot was the rim of the insert.
After that,I turned down the rim of the insert so the footing would cover it and butt right up to the rear of the broadhead.I just felt that the front of that footing might drag on tissue if the insert rim in front of it was lower.It seems more streamlined with the footing over the rim of the footing.
Later,I did a double footing,just to form a better transition from the Tuffhead's ferrule to footing and shaft.
(http://i.imgur.com/3LQoEbC.jpg)
-
Hi, where do you guys get your longer footings? I currently use the carbon collars from 3 rivers but I would prefer the longer ones that cover the insert and shaft.
-
bagada you can get long ones form tuffhead. I did my axis 400s with #4. Was gonna do the second collar on them by it seems just a touch too big????? I mean it is just enough that it could go on not tight? little wobble.
The first long footings were so tight I had to tap them down with a hammer!
Course footing arrows to kill 80lb whitetails?? I do it for fun.
J
-
Shadowhunter, that looked good??? shooting masai warrior spears!
-
Lol! I think for almost a 900gr arrow, the cast is pretty good at 14 yards!
-
Baganda, I use alum.arrows cut 1 1/2" about just look around for old ones and figure out the size you will need. Chuck up in drill and tire down the back,faceing the nock end,just taper a little.
-
Not much on EFOC but I like 4 fletch.
-
BTW, What does "A%A" actually stand for?
-
Ashby and Adcock,the two gentlemen that came up with it.OL Adcock is a flight engineer and flight bow shooter.
-
Thanks.
I'm an "Ashby believer" but a bit doubtful of the turbulator.
-
those look good jim, notice any difference in strength or spine? do the footings go farther back on the shaft than your inserts?
-
Longtoke,These days I just cut mine at 1" and also install them before I tune.
-
just wondering if anyone had noticed much difference between styles. I made up 3 of the type that dont cover the insert, im using them as stumpers so they have took a beating. the gap between the footing and head does get packed with mud and dirt though.
Im thinking turning the insert down so it fits in the shaft might be the way to go.
-
I haven't noted any difference in strength but the fact that it collects some mud,tells me it may also drag on flesh and reduce penetration some.I like them more streamlined,just in case.