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Main Boards => PowWow => Topic started by: S.C. Hunter on August 20, 2016, 04:56:00 PM

Title: Longbow and Recurve equal in performance?
Post by: S.C. Hunter on August 20, 2016, 04:56:00 PM
Just a question regarding my looking for a recurve post. Forgot to ask in that post. Is a 56#@28" draw weight equal in performance between a recurve and a longbow? My longbow is a standard D shape when strung. Robertson primal styk 56#@28 but I draw to 29.5" So how much draw weight is gained past 28 in a recurve vs a longbow? Also what are your thoughts on the draw of a longbow at that weight vs a recurve with regards to ease of draw.

Would there be a difference in overall performance. I don't have a lot of experience with recurves but have shot them on 3-D courses and I shot a Black widow that was 57#@28 it did seem quicker, and smoother on the draw, but that was my perception. Shot a one piece Bear 50#@28 that seemed quicker than my bow at 56#@28. Just looking for some facts and feelings of those shooting a recurve. Thanks for any information.
Title: Re: Longbow and Recurve equal in performance?
Post by: ChuckC on August 20, 2016, 05:17:00 PM
We can talk in generality, but in reality, nothing is ALWAYS.  Generally, A "D" shaped longbow is not as speedy as a well designed recurve.  A well designed hybrid or R/D longbow is approaching a recurve in performance.  Some of them can exceed recurve performance.  That said, often there is not very much difference, in performance between them.  Since most deer are shot at less than 20 yards, speed, unless hugely different, is not so critical.

Also in general, longbows are quieter than recurves.  Again, a generality.  All bows feel different and me describing them is just that, my perception.  Go to some shoots and ask to try bows or at least check them out and handle them.  Make your own decisions.
ChuckC
Title: Re: Longbow and Recurve equal in performance?
Post by: kennym on August 20, 2016, 05:19:00 PM
What Chuck said, and quiet is better than a few fps to me...
Title: Re: Longbow and Recurve equal in performance?
Post by: Mitch Edwards on August 20, 2016, 06:39:00 PM
I've owned more recurves than longbows but what I've noticed with both is that either can be loud or quiet and all can be made quiet with the right combo of string and silencers both string and limb type silencers. In hunting quiet is where it's at not so much speed. But the biggest factor of all is accuracy. I know you asked about speed but I would urge you to look at which you shoot best not which is the fastest. Besides a few fps here or there doesn't mean much of anything
Title: Re: Longbow and Recurve equal in performance?
Post by: monterey on August 20, 2016, 06:54:00 PM
If all else is equal, as arrow weight goes up for both bows, long bow (talking ASL here) will lose speed at a lesser RATE, but may never actually catch up.  If that's both bows, a chronograph and a bunch of arrows it could be a fun experiment.
Title: Re: Longbow and Recurve equal in performance?
Post by: Sam McMichael on August 20, 2016, 07:37:00 PM
Yeah, they will both kill an animal. Desirability of each one is subjective.
Title: Re: Longbow and Recurve equal in performance?
Post by: Keith Zimmerman on August 20, 2016, 07:57:00 PM
Good answers guys.  Nuff said.
Title: Re: Longbow and Recurve equal in performance?
Post by: S.C. Hunter on August 20, 2016, 08:30:00 PM
The speed is not a issue for me. Guess I wasn't clear about my question. If you were to shoot a longbow and a recurve with a equal draw weight and arrows of the same weight would their be a difference in performance and would the draw weight increase at the same rate if you draw another inch and a half beyond the 28"? I've shot slow and fast bows I just want to know how they compare pound for pound? I know animals are taken with bows around 35# and much higher. Thanks for your opinions and experiences.
Title: Re: Longbow and Recurve equal in performance?
Post by: Petrichor on August 20, 2016, 09:08:00 PM
I like to put it this way speed aside. I was a recurve guy until I shot a long bow.
Title: Re: Longbow and Recurve equal in performance?
Post by: S.C. Hunter on August 20, 2016, 09:34:00 PM
QuoteOriginally posted by dahyer:
I like to put it this way speed aside. I was a recurve guy until I shot a long bow.
Ok I get that. Thanks
Title: Re: Longbow and Recurve equal in performance?
Post by: Caughtandhobble on August 20, 2016, 09:41:00 PM
It all comes down to design for either. All longbows are not created equal. You could find a recurve that performs just like a given longbow, most likely.

The best example I can come up with is comparing the Black Widow PSR (Recurve) against the Black Widow Longbow with the same specs. These two bows are very comparable.
Title: Re: Longbow and Recurve equal in performance?
Post by: S.C. Hunter on August 20, 2016, 10:40:00 PM
QuoteOriginally posted by Caughtandhobble:
It all comes down to design for either. All longbows are not created equal. You could find a recurve that performs just like a given longbow, most likely.

The best example I can come up with is comparing the Black Widow PSR (Recurve) against the Black Widow Longbow with the same specs. These two bows are very comparable.
Thank you!
Title: Re: Longbow and Recurve equal in performance?
Post by: McDave on August 20, 2016, 10:45:00 PM
Innately, there is some energy stored in the recurved limbs.  That energy is not stored in longbow limbs, however reflexed they may be.  So everything else being equal, the recurve will have more speed.  Maybe not much, compared with modern longbows, but some.

OTOH, the recurved limbs are prone to twist, while the longbow limbs are not.

So you pays your money and you takes your choice.
Title: Re: Longbow and Recurve equal in performance?
Post by: S.C. Hunter on August 20, 2016, 11:03:00 PM
QuoteOriginally posted by McDave:
Innately, there is some energy stored in the recurved limbs.  That energy is not stored in longbow limbs, however reflexed they may be.  So everything else being equal, the recurve will have more speed.  Maybe not much, compared with modern longbows, but some.

OTOH, the recurved limbs are prone to twist, while the longbow limbs are not.

So you pays your money and you takes your choice.
Thank you. Much appreciated.
Title: Re: Longbow and Recurve equal in performance?
Post by: on August 21, 2016, 12:33:00 AM
Too many variables!!!!!

Bisch
Title: Re: Longbow and Recurve equal in performance?
Post by: dbd870 on August 21, 2016, 06:17:00 AM
Yep, that is not as yes or no question. I have shot 3 different longbows, so that's not a big sample; however so far I much prefer any recurve to those. (and they were all pretty high end bows) If you are interested in them shoot some and see what you think, only 1 way to know. I really don't care even a little about any relatively small performance differences between them.
Title: Re: Longbow and Recurve equal in performance?
Post by: monterey on August 21, 2016, 10:52:00 AM
QuoteIs a 56#@28" draw weight equal in performance between a recurve and a longbow?  
The only way to answer your question is for you to describe your definition of "performance".
Title: Re: Longbow and Recurve equal in performance?
Post by: Cyclic-Rivers on August 21, 2016, 11:19:00 AM
the only way to tell is to take two bows in question and test them against each other.

The best answer I can give to your question is: Some are and some are not.

But at the end of the day, it really comes down to which bow you like shooting more.
Title: Re: Longbow and Recurve equal in performance?
Post by: S.C. Hunter on August 22, 2016, 02:00:00 AM
Thanks everyone and you all make good points.
Title: Re: Longbow and Recurve equal in performance?
Post by: Longtoke on August 22, 2016, 02:17:00 AM
Lots of variables, limb design and build makes a huge difference.
I like the hybrid bow types that are trying to get the best of both worlds, like  r/d longbows or recurves with thick limb tips.
Title: Re: Longbow and Recurve equal in performance?
Post by: on August 23, 2016, 10:53:00 AM
My wife had two recurves that were 38 at her draw, they both killed deer.  She used a 38 pound Hill Cheetah off and on. Then I got her a NAT Lost Creek, same weight, shoots the same arrow the same distance as her faster recurve.   We did a little flight shooting with arrows that weighed 420 to 430 with Hunter's Heads, just see how they flew in the wind compared to old Bears.  Turns out the arrows flew the same and her NAT and her Cheetah Hill get almost the same yardage when flight shooting.   She keeps telling me that the Hill is easier to draw and it must be lighter, they are the same.  She just shoots it stronger.
Title: Re: Longbow and Recurve equal in performance?
Post by: John Havard on August 23, 2016, 11:22:00 PM
The correct answer is:  "it depends".  An optimally-designed longbow limb will have less SE/PDF than an optimally-designed recurve limb.  However, the optimally-designed longbow limb will have a higher dynamic efficiency (DE) than an equally-optimally-designed recurve limb.  So a generalized answer is:  a well designed longbow limb and a well designed recurve limb utilizing the best designs and the best materials available will be within a foot or two per second of one another.  

A dog longbow design versus a well-designed recurve will be perhaps 20 fps slower.  Likewise a dog recurve versus a top longbow might also be 20 fps slower.

For the nerds, please read on:
 http://dryadbows.com/Defining%20Bow%20Performance%20Dryad.pdf
Title: Re: Longbow and Recurve equal in performance?
Post by: Sixby on August 24, 2016, 04:42:00 PM
John said it very well and that is exactly what I tell my customers. If a limb is optimally designed the variables counter act each design to the point of being so minimal it makes no real difference. It becomes simply a matter of whether or not you like a certain look or feel best.

God bless, Steve