I shoot a triple carbon centaur that is #52@29 and I draw to ~29.5". After a conservation with a buddy about tuning and how my arrows always come out stiffer than "normal", i decided to deviate from my typical bare shaft tuning and tried to "trust the paper".
After talking with several people I trust much more than myself, I started with a full length (32") .500 spine. I put my typical 175 grain head on it and shoot.. WWWWAAAAAAYYYYYY WEAK.
I them grabbed a .400 spine that is 31.75" long with the typical 175 grain head, less weak, but still very weak. I then grab the arrow.350 spine 31.75" long that bare shafted "like a bullet" and put it through the paper. It did show a little weak, but it was by far the best. I trimmed, trusting the paper, and low and behold, it started shooting bullet holes.
After sending Jake all the results, both he and I are both stumped...
The Top left is the .500, the bottom right is the .400, and the middle ones are the .340's.
(http://i1343.photobucket.com/albums/o795/wadebinkley/761133D1-85F0-42AD-9866-712074CF2FC2_zps5itayd9w.jpg) (http://s1343.photobucket.com/user/wadebinkley/media/761133D1-85F0-42AD-9866-712074CF2FC2_zps5itayd9w.jpg.html)
These were the results after a little trimming..
(http://i1343.photobucket.com/albums/o795/wadebinkley/2D26D3B1-A362-4ED1-B843-A9D7F445042E_zpsb995blfo.jpg) (http://s1343.photobucket.com/user/wadebinkley/media/2D26D3B1-A362-4ED1-B843-A9D7F445042E_zpsb995blfo.jpg.html)
Has anyone else had similar results? I would love some of your opinions and experiences.
**all shots were taken from around 6 feet to the paper**
Lay it on us, fellas. The paper doesn't lie, but I have no explanation for why a .340 would spine out for Daniel's specs. I am all ears on this one.... :campfire:
Jake
My two centaurs took a stiff arrow as well.
I was shooting 54#s @ 26"S and could have shot a longer .340 but ended up with a 28 3/4" 400 with 225 up front. Shot like a bullet
I have always heard that the centaurs required a stiffer shaft than some other bows. I also don't worry about the things that sometimes don't "seem right". When I get the bullet holes, I know I'm golden!
Bisch
Makes me wanna go shoot some paper
Like I always say , if it works , don't worry about the numbers .
I have a 45# K-Mag that shoots an arrow 15# heavier than it should , but I can't shoot a lighter arrow without it going down range sideways . :readit: :archer:
I have a question that I feel needs to be addressed. We all see slo mo videos of archers paradox in action. It takes a little bit of time to even out, in the mean time the arrow is moving side to side. If the paper is placed only 6 feet from the bow, and the arrows are very near 3 feet before they come off the string, that leaves very little time to come to some sort of equilibrium. At what point is the paradox giving false or wishful responses ? If it goes left then right then ..... can you place your paper so that it makes a right hand tear, and if placed two feet further it makes a left hand tear and if you get it just right in between it makes a bullet hole, none of which show what is actually happening ?
Is six feet too close ?
ChuckC
Chuck, idk if 6' is too close, but that is the way I was taught to paper tune years ago. After I get the bullet holes at 6', I then move the paper out to about 15' and verify that I am still getting the same hole. After that, I shoot both field points and broadheads at a regular target and verify that the broadhead tipped arrows hit in the same place as the field point arrows. I have never not had my broadhead tipped arrows hit in the same place as the field points if I get the paper showing the bullet holes. Also, once I tune this way, my arrows fly so straight that I cannot see them on some shots until they hit the target. I use 2 white hen fletches so that I can see my arrow in flight better.
Bisch
Why are you surprised at your results? Isn't a Centaur cut to or past center? It's a high-performance bow with a high performance string.
I wouldn't have even bothered trying a .500. No doubt it was going to be weak. Might have started with a .400, but I shoot .400s with 250 up front out of 50# bows at 28 inches, so I probably would have gone right to the .340s with your draw weight at 29 1/2 inches.
Your results are exactly what I would expect. :dunno:
Daniel and Jake,
My take as a Centaurs owner is that they are super efficient bows and put that much energy where it belongs...in the arrow!
I have not paper tuned mine and it would be interesting to see how mine performs, but I now shoot 400 spined GT's out of a 52#@28" and I draw to around 29.5" to. The arrow are 30" and 5/8 long and up front I have a 50 grain insert and 175 grain head.
To me mine shoot a tad on the stiff side and I have a very thin leather side plate.
Centaur are cut to center unless you have a Dymond wood model and ask jim to cut pass center.
QuoteOriginally posted by South MS Bowhunter:
Daniel and Jake,
My take as a Centaurs owner is that they are super efficient bows and put that much energy where it belongs...in the arrow!
I have not paper tuned mine and it would be interesting to see how mine performs, but I now shoot 400 spined GT's out of a 52#@28" and I draw to around 29.5" to. The arrow are 30" and 5/8 long and up front I have a 50 grain insert and 175 grain head.
To me mine shoot a tad on the stiff side and I have a very thin leather side plate.
And I have a pretty thick piece of leather on mine. Weird to me. Mentally, it all seems stiff to me, but I can physically see what appears to be right. Lol.
I'm not surprised at all! Long draw and a fast bow cut to center or past. I for the first time am shooting a hunting weight bow with hunting arrows that the spine on start with a 4. I've always had to shoot 340 spine minimum and often a 300 spine. Bought a whip and it's not cut as deep. I wanted to buy a Caribow a few months ago in rmsgear, I couldn't find an arrow stiff enough to shoot with any of the weight broadheads I'm willing to use. 31" draw isn't always that great to have!
I have had weird results like that as well. Graps I have had the same results with a k Mag. Way stiffer arrow than one would think. If you are getting bullet holes you got it figured out! Stick with it.
Same here I shoot similar specs and 400 where week 300 stiff been using 400s with 4" of footing did the trick for me.
Sounds about right if the bow is cut past center, a longish draw and a long arrow. 340-350 spine works for low 50# when arrow is long and 200gr point for me drawing 29.5"
I also tried and lighter spined shafts on recommendations of others and found them extremely weak.
I have a black widow pchx that is 48# and shoots a cx heritage 350. With 175pt n brass insert.
I figured I would be shooting a 150 or 250 at most. Nope 350
I dont know but yes you got the bullet hole. As said aboveaybe move paper out to 15' and see what happens. I also think the best test is group tuning. If you shoot 3 fletched and 3 bare shaft do the all hit in same spot? If fletched hit different that bareshaft there is still tuning to be done. Whatever works for you.
Try your paper tune at different distances to check and make sure your not getting a false "Tuned" catching the archers paradox in the mid flex. say 8ft.. 10 ft..... and back up with bare shaft grouping.
Unless it's a elevated rest, paper tuning is almost useless. Bare-shafting and broadhead tuning are a lot more accurate.
Heck even with a compound and release paper tuning in most folks hands is problematic.
How are they flying?
Mike
QuoteOriginally posted by wingnut:
Unless it's a elevated rest, paper tuning is almost useless. Bare-shafting and broadhead tuning are a lot more accurate.
Heck even with a compound and release paper tuning in most folks hands is problematic.
How are they flying?
Mike
That's my first thought every time I see/hear anything about paper tuning while shooting fingers. Then... along comes a thread like this--again.
I tip my cap to anyone that can get consistent results while paper tuning. I just can't pull it off--never could.
What Mike said x 2...he's been around the block a time or two. I paper tuned compounds, never even entertained the notion with trad bows. Not that you may not be dead on with them, but if bare and fletched shoot the same group at 25-30 yds. then I'd say you're there.
Mike,
Would you care to elaborate on your opinion of paper tuning?? I have found it to be the only way to actually measure the results of an improperly spined arrow.
I do both bare and paper tuning, and always use the paper to confirm the bareshaft readings. I'm certainly no expert, and my form is not without error, but I have never had a hard time getting consistent readings from paper.
Please do not think me argumentative or challenging, I would just like someone with your knowledge to educate me.
Thanks,
Jake