Probably a dumb question here.
Once you cut a carbon arrow to the length that you want how do you insert the inserts? I used to heat up aluminium arrows and the insert and add Hot Melt and then slide it in. With carbon arrows do you just heat up the insert and add the Hot Melt to it and then slide it in the carbon arrow?
Thanks,
Dan
I don't know of anyone who uses hot melt on carbon arrows. (Now watch as 100 people reply that they do). I use Insert Iron, sold by 3 Rivers. Others use Super Glue or various forms of epoxy. None of these require heating.
I also like to use a glue that is easy to remove. To do that, I heat the point and pull the insert out with pliers or a vise. You have to be much more careful of heating carbon than aluminum, of course, or you will ruin it. Just heat the point a little bit, being careful not to heat the shaft directly. Pull on the point, then repeat as needed until it pulls out.
You are behind the times McDave! Big Jim's Quick Stick hot melt is the only glue I use for inserts on my carbon arrows. I have tried just about all the other glues, and nothing beats the Big Jim hot melt, esp when you are using expensive brass inserts that need to be recycled when the arrow is damaged. I have been using that glue for 3yrs now, and have not lost a single insert, and removal is a cinch with never ruining a shaft!
To the OP, yes, you heat the insert, dab it in the glue, and then insert it into the shaft.
If you are using a hot melt like FerruleTite or craft store hot melt, it is likely that it will not bond well, and you will lose inserts in targets.
Bisch
Bisch got it right! Big Jim's melts at such a low temp I can hold the point in my fingers while heating the insert to melt the glue. Stuff sticks like crazy too. I have yet to have one pull out on me.
Epoxy the insert in and you can only remove it by destroying the shaft. Super glue is fast, and can be removed by heating the point, but you have to get it hotter than the Big Jim's glue.
Bisch X3. Works very well. I use for my woodies as well. Good stuff.
Do not forget to clean inside of carbon shaft. I use acetone and a rifle bore brush to ruff up inside of shaft. Then clean out with a clean towel and acetone.
Bisch x4, once insert is installed I dip the tip in a glass of water to speed cooling.
Only 96 to go, and it will fulfill my prediction!
Make that 95...BigJim hot melt!
I don't use Big Jims even though I'm sure it's great stuff. I use Bohning cool blue hot melt with great results.
Next time I need some i might as well try Big Jim's.
94
Big Jim's is the hot melt I use as well.
Make that 92. I use hot melt as well.
Thanks guys. I appreciate it. I am behind the times as well (by about 20 years) and have some catching up to do. I will order the Big Jims hot melt
Big Jims X ???
Don't feel bad Dave. I'm sure you're a nice guy but just a little misinformed. Give the hot melt a try. You might like it. Heck of a lot easier when removal is needed. For what it's worth, I've also left some points in targets using epoxy.
QuoteOriginally posted by highlow:
Don't feel bad Dave. I'm sure you're a nice guy but just a little misinformed. Give the hot melt a try. You might like it. Heck of a lot easier when removal is needed. For what it's worth, I've also left some points in targets using epoxy.
When I started using carbons, quite a few years ago, I initially used the same hot melt I used for aluminum. After losing quite a few points in targets, I started experimenting with various other types of adhesives, and eventually ended up using Insert Iron when it came out. I've been generally happy with that, and haven't lost many points in targets since I started using it. It is also relatively easy to remove the insert from the shaft by applying a little heat to the point. The only complaints I have are that it is a little pricey, and has a long drying time. Neither of these are significant enough to make me want to switch, as I don't use that much of it, so the price/use is pretty insignificant, and when I repair an arrow it generally goes in the bucket with the spares where it will probably sit for a long time anyway.
However, I appreciate all the information about Big Jim's hot melt for carbons, and since I like to try new things, I will probably give it a try one of these days. At the very least, I will include it in my recommendations to people in the future.
One question: if it has such a low melting point that you can hold the point and insert in your fingers while you heat it up and put it on, do you think it would ever get hot enough in use that it would melt from friction and/or a hot day?
I have never held the insert while applying the glue. I use a torch and heat the glue till it just starts to melt, while also heating the insert a little. I screw a field point in the insert and hold onto it while heating the insert. I then dab the insert in the glue and install in the shaft (I use the large stick that does NOT go in a glue gun). I even use this glue on my HIT inserts in my FMJ shafts. I then dip the end of the shaft into a cup of water to cool everything down. As stated earlier, been using it for about 3 yrs, and have yet to lose a single insert.
Bisch
Dang, I just ordered stuff from Big Jim!!
Hey, McDave you're a Prophet and Big Jim's gettin filthy rich! :laughing:
91 and counting! It was about 2 years ago I converted from epoxy, but never looked back. The formulations prior to that which were made for aluminum flat would not work. I've never had a failure with the Quik Stik.
McDave: Nothing really unique about the hot melt Big Jim is selling, though it is good stuff. Just melts at a somewhat lower temperature than the hot melts of old like Ferrule-tite. There are other brands out there as well.
I use it because of it's ease of use and haven't had any problems with heads pulling out. Have never lost one, and I've buried heads in some pretty stout stuff.
I do think epoxy might be better for preventing the point from mushrooming the arrow shaft on really hard hits. I don't use aluminum footings much, but recently acquired a few shafts that had the footings attached with hot melt as well.
A shot into a steel silhouette target pushed the point back an eighth of an inch or so, just beginning to mushroom the shaft. Had both the insert and footing been epoxied rather than hot melted, that may not have occurred.
#90 BigJim hotmelt. It doesn't get brittle like alot of the others and it's tacky
You wouldn't think it would matter much but some brands of carbon shafts don't hold inserts as good as others. I can hot melt AD trads and never have an issue (except in extreme heat I have turned and insert while tightening a broad head.
I also use the three rivers trad only which I believe in the same as a bee man ICS. Those are slick inside and out. The insert has a really precision fit. Hot melt won't hold those. I just experimented with some lot tite gel epoxy on the 50 gr brass inserts. I slammed an arrow into a hickory tree 4 times then twice into a rock. The insert held. I often read on here that the three rivers shafts aren't as tough as gold tips. I would bet that it's because the inserts slide back because the glue slips and flares the shaft. I'll use the loc tire epoxy on the rest of them. It made the connection so strong it acted like a footed shaft.
I shoot Beman ICS and 3R Trad Only and have never lost an insert with Quik Stik. I will admit that part of my installation includes cleaning the shaft inside with an acetone dipped swab and roughing up with a spark plug cleaning brush, but I did those things back when I used epoxy...oh, and I try not to shoot trees and rocks, lol.
Big Jim advertises that he does not clean the shafts when he uses this glue. When I shot GT shafts, I cleaned them with alcohol on a cotton swab. I don't do any cleaning or prep with the FMJ's.
Bisch
Another Big Jim's hot melt user the best I have ever used. Widow
Im with Bisch! All of my friends use it too with fantastic results.
Add me to the list!
Everything Bisch says but, I am sure Big Jims glue is great but I used hot melt on my CX Heritage shafts and did not work. Someone told me to look for High Temp hot glue . I've found it everywhere builders supplies,horbor freight,etc. just look for the amber color not the milky stuff. I also prep my shaft with brass rifle cleaning brush,acetone ,but the last thing is I keep a bottle of cool water close. When I get the insert in I dip it to give it a quick cool seams to set the glue,works for hot west Texas 3D shoots. Bob
I did not know about Jim's product so I have been using Gorilla Super Glue Impact Tough for the past year and have not lost any tips. I prep the inside of the GT shafts with rolled up sand paper and clean with alcohol. On a damaged shaft, I can heat the tip and salvage the brass insert. I can find the glue locally at a number of places.