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Main Boards => PowWow => Topic started by: DanielB89 on April 20, 2016, 11:51:00 AM
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alright fellas, I am in need of some advice from you guys.
I am trying to find out 2 things about wood arrows.
1. What spine arrow do you think I should shoot?
I have a Centaur Triple Carbon Elite that is #52@29 and I draw to 30". I don't care about tip weight. I know I would want the LIGHTEST POSSIBLE ARROW. I would love around a 500 grain total arrow weight(is that even possible)?
2. What wood?
These will be only be used for 3D arrows and I would like something that will last. I do not miss very often, so they will only have to hold up to foam.
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
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My wife's arrows are 11/32 POC 3X5 feathers 145 gr points and weigh 525. I don't remember the length. The shafts were spine and weight matched by RMSG.
You could probably get under 500.
As far as spine goes, use Stu's calculator and input everything with meticulous accuracy then order with spine just a hair in the weak side and tune by carefully shortening to good flight. Woodies are super easy to shorten compared to carbon and AL.
Anyway, that's how I would do it, but it's not the only way.
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I think you will have a hard time getting to 500 grs.
As an example, I have arrows for basically the same draw weight and length. 10" Tapered P.O.C. with three 5" fletch and a 125 gr point and at 31" they weigh 585 grs. They are 70-75# spine (that's before tapering). You could knock the point weight down some but not sure how that might affect your flight and you still won't get down to 500 gr +/-. Playing with spine and a 100 gr point might get you closer.
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Call Paul Jalon at Elite arrows and tell him what you want, he'll set you up.
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Maybe I could get some help too.....never got any on my own thread.
looking for 90#spine arrows for a 100# warbow....can't believe a sponsor wont jump on this.....begging for arrows and no one to take my order.
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Daniel, how deep the shelf is cut will make a big difference in your spine needs. Cut to center with a 125 point I estimate a 74 lb spine, which puts you right on the cusp for 70-74 or 75-79. A 500 gr arrow will have you starting with a 360 gr 32" shaft. That is gonna be unlikely with fir, tough with POC, but I think doable with Sitka Spruce. I'll try to look thru my shafts tonight and see what I have.
Terry, I have some fir and ramin in 90+ spine.
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I'd contact Hildebrand Shafts.
You'll want spruce shafts as they are nice and light.
My tapered full length 67-69# spruce shafts weighed 360-370 grains "raw"... no sealer, fletch...bare wood.
I asked them for the lightest dozen they had in that spine range.
They do front and back tapered too.
Spruce is lighter than cedar.
I think it's your best bet for a close to but a little over 500 grain total weight woody.
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X2 what Zradix says. Years back I wanted the same specs for arrows I was making for a friend. They picked them out for me. I had them taper them besides. He also wanted them for 3D from his A&H bow.
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Hildebrandt tapered spruce will be lightest. My 80-84 come in at 630 gr with 125 point. You won't even get close to 500 gr with the spine required for your centaur using wood.
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It is a common problem with modern longbows to be "Cut to center" or even be cut past center in some models. That requires an awful high spined arrow, which then is harder to get and if you go up in draw weight almost impossible to get.
I would calculate:
52#@29 = 52#
one inch more draw: +5#
Arrow length 31": +5#
Performance longbow: +8#
Fast Flight string: + 8#
Sum up to: 78#
Get test kit from Paul Jalon, with 75#, 78#, and 80#. Get 100,125 and 145 grain fieldpoints.
I would stay with POC. When it breaks, it breaks clean behind the point 90%+ of the times and can then be repaired with rep-arrow style repair footing or the arrow-fix tool. Sitka is physically lighter and acts dynamically stiffer than cedar, so you may be at around 73-75# spine. Paul also has Sitka Spruce.
Don't expect much durability from Sitka Spruce. It is in my opinion easier to break than POC and when it breaks it breaks very long with the fibers into the shaft. Not easy to repair. But the long fiber makes it dynamically stiffer as well.
Out of a high performance bow like that with 30" draw I would not worry to shoot 600+ grains in weight. Simply because the bow is optimized for heavier arrows.
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Building the strike plate out is a way to get to a lower spine. If you can move down to a 5/16" arrow it will serve to lighten the arrow.
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I'm not a "guru", but this arrow is 30 3/4" bop, 11/32" POC, Carrie's a 145 point and weighs 525 gr. You can see that I didn't go small on the Fletch.
(http://i896.photobucket.com/albums/ac170/longcruise/Archery/Arrows/IMG_20160421_165240705_zpsfbsodqyx.jpg)
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Monterey,
what spine is that?
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Hah! I knew someone would ask. :) I made these up a few years back and I don't recall the spine. My usual spine is 60, but I went lighter for a 40# recurve. I don't have a spine tester so I can only guess. I think they were 50's.
These started life at 23/64 but were compressed to 11/32. At the time I bought these from RMSG they were buying quite a few shafts from Keith Chastain and he had a machine to compress them.
I won't have an opportunity four a couple weeks, but when I'm back from Turkey hunting I could go by RMSG and spine them
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Monterey has it right if you want to lower the spine needed. I did it to one of my bows. I just used a thick piece of leather.
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I agree with Monterey. If you can get some "old" Acme or Rose City cedar you could achieve the weight. I would try around 65 spine for the Centaur.
I don't think people are reading that you want these only for Shoots! Trying to compete in all classes allowed?
So the posts for aluminum, also. :bigsmyl:
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Originally posted by Terry Green:
Maybe I could get some help too.....never got any on my own thread.
looking for 90#spine arrows for a 100# warbow....can't believe a sponsor wont jump on this.....begging for arrows and no one to take my order.
Check out Forrester Shafts. He has Red Balau shafts listed that are spined as high as 180#.
https://forresterwoodshafts.com/collections/red-balau-hardwood-arrow-shafts
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Originally posted by Terry Green:
Maybe I could get some help too.....never got any on my own thread.
looking for 90#spine arrows for a 100# warbow....can't believe a sponsor wont jump on this.....begging for arrows and no one to take my order.
I have to make my own to get what I need for my bows, the heavier you get the harder it is to find someone to make them or that even have shafts that are stiff enough, or will part with them when you do find them.
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Like Frank, I think you'll end up around 65# DYNAMIC spine. Say 31"BOP for your draw. I'd start with a 125grn point, maybe go to 100grn's for weight. Might start with a little longer arrow to tune, and work down if necessary.
So 65-70 spine group. Sitka Spruce are the lightest I've found. It'll be a little challenge getting total weight around 500; call and talk to the folks at Hildebrand and explain you're looking for the lightest weight group in your range. Tail taper will reduce shaft weight by around 20 grains.
Light point, light tapered shafts, and you'll be right around where you want.
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Terry Green, how many are you looking for? I'm shooting 90s from my recurve this year, the last of my Superceder stock. I have a handful of heavier shafts, but no matched dozens. I made up all the 90s for myself, sorry. I have a bunch of 65-70s but nothing heavier than that matched. They are barreled.
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Have some 85-90 pound tapered Surewood doug fir shafts
Terry