All I've shot were wood and aluminum until now.
I had some GT 55/75s that shot great out of most my bows.
I started playing with Axis Traditionals and I'm losing my mind trying to bareshaft them.
The Axis are 400s, which according to the local shop should be perfect @29.5" using their spine chart.
Most my bows are 50-55 #s, and I draw 28".
I've even left them full length with 75gr brass inserts and 125gr points and they still fly nock right at 20yds bareshaft.
I then grabbed my GT 55/75 and hit right where I was looking, although it does have 3" four fletch on it.
My aluminums are 2018s w/125gr points and fly great.
Oh well guess I'll keep playing with the Axis, now its personal!
I understand your frustration. Is there any particular reason you've set your Gold Tips aside?
Not really, just wanted to play with the new skinny carbons.
Remember that with the skinny arrows you need to adjust the rest out a bit or they will be to weak.
The center of the arrow is further in then with the fatter shaft.
Mike
What Mike says. BTW, because the skinny shafts are skinnier than your GTs, you might also need to lower your nock point a little.
I shot wood for more than 50 years, and still do, but I also began shooting carbons a few years ago. One thing I learned quickly was to stick to one diameter shaft, regardless of the carbon brand used. Otherwise, you'll always be tinkering when you switch from one shaft size to another.
That's my problem/curse....I tinker too much!
Thanks for all the great info!
I'm gonna play with them but spend some serious time with my GTs
Sounds weak to me, trim them a little.
Assuming that we are talking rh shooter, wouldn't nock right be stiff?
I shoot Gold Tip arrows and they fly great!
You say they fly nock right. Where do they impact in relation to your point of aim/other arrows?
Do not be fooled like I did and had a false weak.
If you have heavier field points I would try that first before doing any cutting. Good luck.
I have the 75gr brass inserts with 125gr point.
The shafts kick right and then straighten out.
They impact close to my finished arrows its just the nock point right that gets me....yes I'm a RH shooter.
I'll give another chance tomorrow, figured I'd quit today before I lose my temper.
Carbons drive me crazy too. Length is so critical. And false readings often cause you to cut or add weight when you should do the opposite.
Tedd
Nock right is over-spined for a RH shooter.
Try shooting a broadhead and see where it hits compared to your fiied points.
Good luck buddy! The tinkering never ends once u start shooting carbons. Wait til u finally find the perfect arrow, and they discontinue them like they did with the ACCs.
I've been there, think I finally have settled into one.
Smaller diameter Shafts are more Center shot to the bow so a stiffer shaft can be required sometimes, but obviously if his arrows are kicking to the right they are too stiff which I would expect from that 400 spine shaft. I usually buy one arrow and throw it on the spine tester before I even go further than that because carbons are so stiff. I shoot almost exclusively wood now to avoid all those issues
QuoteOriginally posted by Keith Zimmerman:
Good luck buddy! The tinkering never ends once u start shooting carbons. Wait til u finally find the perfect arrow, and they discontinue them like they did with the ACCs.
Boy oh boy, did you call that one right!
You have said that the bare shafts are hitting fairly close to your finished arrows but still have a bit of nock right. Let me ask are you shooting the bare shafts with the bow held vertically and are you sure that you are not inducing any amount of torque into the string or arrow. All of these minute things can cause a bareshaft to fly a certain way for different shooters but if it is spined correctly in my experience it will still impact the target fairly close to where the fletched arrows do. Like someone else has said throw a broadhead on the finished arrows and shoot them. Preferably the biggest heads you have. If your b/h's shoot fine then really why worry with bareshafts unless you know you have absolutely perfect form and release.
Take one of the full length ones with the heavy insert and put a 250g point on and see what happens.
I never cut my carbons. When you cut them they seem to get STIFF I've you go below a certain point. By leaving them full length I can tune them pretty much to any bow I have.
QuoteOriginally posted by Keith Zimmerman:
Good luck buddy! The tinkering never ends once u start shooting carbons. Wait til u finally find the perfect arrow, and they discontinue them like they did with the ACCs.
You warned me this would happen.
I'll fletch one up today and check it out.
I have some #60 limbs that I'm sure these 400s will work in, they're just not my everyday shooting bows.
Good thing my aluminum and GTs still fly great...oh well, it's all part of the fun.
If we all settled...nothing new would happen!
I'm just thinking I could shoot a full length normal .400 with 200 on the front out of a bow pulling mid 40s. With you shooting mid 50s I think you have to lose either weight or length, especially with the skinny arrows. I've been wrong before (only once! Lol).
leave them full length, as you have them. Sounds to me like the tip weight needs increasing. Continue to add weight until it flies properly. Tail left on a right hand shooter indicates the arrow is too stiff. Don't cut the length out of them....add weight to the point.
QuoteOriginally posted by Biathlonman:
I'm just thinking I could shoot a full length normal .400 with 200 on the front out of a bow pulling mid 40s. With you shooting mid 50s I think you have to lose either weight or length, especially with the skinny arrows. I've been wrong before (only once! Lol).
From my experience so far 400's are pretty stiff for a 45# bow even with weight
Your 55/75's are .400, what is the length and point weight on them?
Carbons are finicky...skinny carbons are even more finicky. Skinny carbons, long draw, and a deeply cut riser is a recipe for a headache. There is no telling how much money and time I've spent tuning since I went to axis shafts. My latest set up is shooting a 32" 300 spine shaft with a standard insert and 250 grain tip. I'm drawing 56@30.5"....they like what they like.
I love my axis shafts though. Speed and penetration have been great for me.
I shoot the heaviest shafts I can find, use 100 grain inserts, and 200 grain broad heads....I sometimes have to add additional brass o-rings under the head to get them to fly perfect. Low profile feathers are a plus as well. Since they don't deflect as much as wood or aluminum you don't need to correct as much once they are heavy forward weighted.
Try 200 gr or more up front and work your way down.
Try upping the up front weight. I shoot round 50 #@30" with a 400 spine, and 100 brass inserts with 200 field point up front. I think your arrows are a little stiff. Try it before you start cutting.
Try 340's. I shoot 30 1/2 draw at 64# and axis 340's shoot great.
I shoot the same setup but use heavier points. Like Steve O said...try 200 gr points. My personal experience and watching others is that generally poor flight with carbons is due to too stiff an arrow. Not really thinking the 340's would work well.
I love the Axis Trads.
If they are impacting the same location left to right as your fletched arrows you are probably pretty close. i think you'll be fine with fletching.
Just before you hit the "add to cart" button, go down a spine grouping and then go ahead...got my handle by matching up cx 250's with a 40# curve...killed a deer but wow they flew bad. After shooting wood, carbons took a while to figure out. I still am not sold enough not to shoot mostly wood. Although I've been experimenting again some.
Terry, are your bows all center shot?
Nope... probably a half a dozen different recurves and half dozen longbows ...all makes models and lengths.....
Moabs Big Jim's Lost Creek Black Widow sun bear recurve sun bear longbow two different styles of Morrison recurves Morrison longbows Mohawks Howard Hill just to name a few I can think of off-hand
Same here on the nocking point as I set it about the same among six old recurves and I shoot (52" to 64"), and use the same length arrows among two brands of carbons. Learned through some money lost on carbons in the past that I typically select a size lighter spine on carbon arrows since I have a short draw length and then work out point weights. Get as close to a good flight as possible bare shaft but don't get too excited about it, especially if I think my shaft size selection was good. My best luck with out of the box is with Axis Trads, as they seem forgiving to me.
Actually, even though it can be frustrating at first, and cost some time and money for points etc., to tinker with carbons to get perfection, the advantage of carbons is that they can be tuned to our individual styles of shooting very well.
I would think 500 spine may do the trick. I shoot them in 51# & 53" bows with 200 & 225...even 250 grains up front. I draw 28" and trim to 29.5"... 400 spine has always been too stiff for me...even though most of my recurves are close to centershot...