I've seen the question posed many times, "Is 40# enough." Recently I finished up a take down recurve that I wanted to hunt with this season. My goal was to hit around 50#. I normally hunt with LB's and recurves in the 52 - 59# range. I was disappointed when my home made bow came out at 40#@28". I was, however, very pleased with the way it shot.
For about a month I was shooting it every Sunday at 3D shoots and felt very comfortable with my ability to hit the vitals on the targets. It even seemed to pack a little punch with the 480 grain 1916 field tipped arrow.
I wanted to kill a deer with MY bow. I found that 2016's (that's right, 2016's) tipped with 125 grain razorcaps really flew well out of this bow. I was originally going to use my tried and true 2 blade Ribteks but they didn't fly as well with this set-up. Now feeling a bit more confident with the lighter weight I decided it was time to hunt with it.
Long story short, here are the results. It was a treestand shot and a complete pass through. I don't know about larger game animals but for deer, this was a lethal set-up. The exit wound picture will show 2 exit holes. One just behind the shoulder and one out of the top of the leg. She had her far leg raised when I shot. Arrow buried in the dirt.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v290/Hatrick/MyBow1stDeer1.jpg)
Entrance wound:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v290/Hatrick/EntranceWound.jpg)
And exit wounds. Notice that it came out behind the shoulder and then through the top of the leg while it was raised.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v290/Hatrick/ExitWound.jpg)
sweet! Yep, 40#'ll do!
Congrats on the doe. My first traditional deer was taken with a 40# bow being drawn to 37#. It was a pass through on a big bodied 6 point.
How far was the shot? Wish I could see the pics, but my computer (work) just puts red x's up there instead. Congrats!
All the best,
Glenn
Nicely done.......in the right hands that set up is a killer!
A picture says a thousand words.
Great story and pictures. Thanks for posting. Sometimes we get too caught up in speed,bow weight, three blade vs. two blade ect.,ect.,ect. Just go out and shoot what feels right. If it don't work, then it's time to change or worry about it. Brokenwing
Sweet!
Did you ever get over to the carbon convention in Balt? Like the looks of that recurve (reminds me a bit of a Zipper).
Seems to me that the first pics answered the question quite nicely. Well Done!!
Thanks, guys. The shot was about 18 yards. The point being, I've heard so much discussed about the weight needed to cleanly kill game. After a month of practicing I had a lot of confidence in the set up but still had a lingering question about potential penetration. I Know that on larger game animals or upon hitting heavy bone the results would differ, but, this was a bit of surprise to me and I plan to hunt most of the rest of the season now with this bow.
My first 2 bow kills many years ago were with a 43 pound bow and neither was a complete pass through. I've gained a lot of knowledge through the years on tuning, sharpening broadheads, and I just plain shoot better now. I think therin lies the secret.
Ken, I did not make it to the carbon convention in Baltimore although I had it on my calendar. After shooting some carbon veneer bows I've come to the conclusion that glass really ain't that bad. I agree with John Gerrard above.
Congratulations on your deer!
I shot my hog this year with the lowest poundage bow I've ever hunted with - about 44 Lbs. at my draw. I always shot at least 50+ lbs. in the past. The STOS went through that hog so fast I never saw it hit him. Shattered the leg bone on the opposite side and kept going till it hit dirt. I was also shooting a heavy carbon arrow for my bow weight - the arrows weighed around 550 grains...
I do believe the broadhead makes a big difference with these lighter weight bows. I usually shoot Simmons with my 50+ lb. bows, but have had some penetration issues on sharp downward angle hits when the deer is real close and I'm over 20 feet high, so I'll stick with the STOS with these lighter weight bows....
It seems no matter what your shooting rifle or bow, the PEOPLE doing the writing always claim you need a 300 win. mag to kill deer, but a 270 win. that's been around for years and has killed more animals than the 300 win mag will ever, deer and elk, moose, and bears and the author still claims the 270 is not enough gun to do the job. Same with the bow writers, I've killed two elk cleanly with a 44 pd. bear recurve, 2016 arrows and a 100 gr. broadhead and never had a problem. Sorry about the rant with writers, they tend to give me the red ass at times.
j yenney....and the lowly 30:30 has killed more deer than all of those put together 8^). My first archery deer (40 years ago) was taken with a 40 pound Pearson recurve and three blade head and showed complete penetration. I've also taken many over the years with 45 pound bows....the last one two years ago was a pass-through. Great arrow flight and good broadheads will do it every time.
I have no doubt it is lots if shot placement is right.
It seems that many are trying to rely on more power to compensate for bad shot choices/placement and range estimation.
Sure there are "What if " scenarios that more power could help, but by being more selective in shot choices regardless of the bow, these "What if's" should not be a consideration when making a shot. If in doubt , Let down.
Plan on the best scenario, not the worst and you will be more selective when nobody is watching.If we think that we might get the arrow thru we will be more likely to make bad choices. If we realize we probably will not succeed we will make better choices.
Pete
Thanks Hatrick for posting that. I've asked the question on here about a 40# being enough. I'm surprised you aren't hammered for using too light of a bow. One thing is for sure, it was plenty of bow for that deer. Congrad.
40# is the minimum here in Oregon for black tail and 50# for elk. Nicely done by the way!!
Hatrick,Nice doe.
I want to say this one last time...then I'm not going to respond to any more of these threads because they get beat to death every time, and no one gets their mind changed anyway.
You're absolutely right- 40 # is plenty of bow, for a whitetail, a mule deer: IF THE SHOT PLACEMENT IS PERFECT.
I don't know about you, but I cannot remember the last time I saw anyone CLEAN a 3d course. And I've shot with some of the best- DD Quillian, John Hood, and a host of others. Bad things happen to the best of us, including me. And, the big difference between foam- and critters- is MOVEMENT that you cannot predict or control.
What that means is you can be the best paper puncher on earth and there's still a good chance that you are going to make a bad shot at some point- not because of making a mistake- but because stuff happens beyond your control.
Our goal in hunting should be to kill everything we shoot at as quickly and cleanly as possible. At least I hope that's everyone's mission.
The question isn't "how little bow weight can I get away with" - it should be- " what bow/arrow combination is the most I can shoot accurately, together with a very sharp broadhead" - so that when that bad stuff happens I have the best chance possible of making that bad hit and STILL KILLING the animal.
Notice, I didn't give a magic number..there is no magic number...its just the most anyone can do- whether its 40, or 90, or anything in between.
If we PLAN for the perfect shot every time, and it doesn't happen, then it's not US that's screwed- its the game animal.
If we PLAN for the worst shot to happen, then every time we make a great shot the arrow just ends up 10 feet further out the other side of the animal.
I don't know about you, but I don't mind walking an extra ten feet further after making every good shot, to get my arrow, than to track one critter for thousands of feet on hands and knees due to next to no penetration when the worst happens.
Ray, thanks for the response and I understand your point. My point was simply that a well tuned 40# bow, sharp broadhead, and well placed shot can have surprising results. I am not advocating the use of a 40# bow but simply showing it's capabilities for those so inclined.
Tuned equipment, sharp quality broadhead, and a well placed shot will always be key over bow weight. Penetration should increase on most bad hits by heavier bows if ALL ELSE is equal. I would agree that the extra penetration MAY result in a better chance of recovery as well. But it's still a bad hit.
Heck, I was all ready to hunt with a 55# bow this year until I made this one. I have confidence in this bow and will use it again. Who knows, I may get out the 55# bow yet. One year I killed deer with 3 different longbows, 59, 56, and 52 pounds. Dead was dead in all cases.
I'm looking forward to the rest of the season and wish everyone a great experience chasing your favorite animal. Dave
You Boy's had me worried there for awhile, I was just to liken to get my money back, like I was really worried about that there 40 lb. thing, I got out my bow case, and looked my limbs over, and boy Oh Boy, did I have to give myself a sigh of relief :pray:
When I looked at my Turkey Creek longbow lamb, my eyes got bigger than a deers ear, when I saw 42 Lb. Looking at me, because of my 29 in. draw length. :goldtooth:
I should be dragging one out of the woods this week, with my 42# @ 29" 63" Turkey Creek longbow. I don't know a if guys know it or not, but when you talk like this,it just instills determination,in a guy like me. Because I have grown-up with the attitude:
"Little is much when God is in it"
I work in a shop where most guys think anything under 70 lbs. bows are what nobody needs. And if you shoot last poundage, they say that's that
" Cardinal Sin",
I think it boils down to, what confidence that person has in his equipment. You see when you step into those woods, you are a part of the equipment. And every shot you take, isn't going to be perfect, but it's going to be your best attempt, and that's all we can ask of anybody, it's just like someone said: " you can't legislate stupidity", but then again we cannot put our personal preferences on other people's shoulders. I think they're a lot responsible people on this site. I don't question and never have. So I don't think that we need set rules for poundage, for someone's capability. You never know what the confidence of one man will do, for the thousands that are looking at him. If you don't believe me.
What happen because of 12 men, that followed one man, that had the confidence that His Father and Him were one.
I do have to agree with you, when it comes to low poundage, we need to make wise decisions, I disagree with the State of Minnesota, it is legal poundage now is 30 lbs.
We have unexperienced hunters (kids) hunting with 30 lbs. bows, just because a legislature says it's OK, unexperienced hunters.
Now my 42 pounder, shoots arrow's at 180 fps with 125 grain upfront, 427 G total wt. at 20 yd., it puts an arrow into a block target 11 in.
All this information, needs to connect with my brain, so that I make a wise decision, when I pulled the string back to send that Arrow. It all boils down to:
Confidence, gentlemen, strictly confidence, and the ability to use my equipment wisely. And that is also our privilege,
Thank you
Carl
I've always thought a perfect shot on a deer was that of the arrow doing damage to the lungs. I've done it with 55 lb. bows and I've done it with 40 lb. bows. The penetration didn't look to be any different either way, breaking ribs with both setups.
I've always wondered how a less than perfect shot with a heavy bow and/or arrow would make things alright. If an arrow actually does penetrate through the scapula.... it is so far forward and high, I believe you'd be lucky to get much lung anyways. But of course if the leg is set back when the shot occurs, it does partially cover the front part of the lungs. I think that's why most everyone knows the best situation is when the leg is set forward, and obviously a quartered away shot is always the best choice regardless of leg position. Spine shot? Well, if it severes the spinal cord, the deer drops in it's tracks. Femoral artery? Just lucky I guess and that type of hit doesn't require sheer power.
You're doing just fine Hatrick, and you've discovered the same thing about your setup that I discovered with mine recently.... it kills deer on a consistent basis. Nice deer!
The little bows kill things just fine.All you have to do it learn to shoot them. :) good job
Ray covered it very well and I know I'm not going to change anyones mind and I won't look at this thread again. Regardless of the intent of these, how little is enough threads, the result is that inexperienced bowhunters think that borderline bows are plenty, they don't have a clue what "when everything is perfect means", they don't know how to perfectly tune a bow or wait for the perfect shot. I've watched a LOT of hunters shoot and I can GUARANTEE that it does NOT come down to a good shot by a lightweight bow vs a bad shot by a heavier bow. What HAPPENED to us, when I started bowhunting it was ALWAYS, shoot as much as you can handle
accurately, now it seems to be, the absolute minimum amount of effort is plenty. Unfortunately we can't post photos of the animals that ran away with arrows in them and weren't recovered due to insufficient penetration.
good shootin' Hatrick, congrads on the deer.
I don't shoot what I would consider a lightweight bow, but for some, I suppose it would be. But I just don't get it...if it's not in the vitale's, well, to me that's a bad hit. And if someone doesn't know how to tune a bow, or take the best shot that they can, I just don't see how shooting more weight is going to make up for it. And while I'm asking, what exactly is, "shoot as much as you can handle"? I guess what I'm asking is, how many practice arrows a day should a guy shoot, and what determines whether you're overbowed or not? one arrow a day? twenty a day? fourty? Let's say a guy shoots twenty arrows a day for practice, when he gets to the fifteenth arrow his bow arm is shaking, and his accrucy suffers, is he shooting more bow than he can handle? Like I said, I just don't get it. But I don't want to highjack your thread Hatrick, so like I said, nice shot and a nice deer.!
larry
Again Hatrick, thanks for the post. You did not offer an opinion on how light a bow one should hunt with or what is too light to take a deer. You simply showed us that you took that deer with a well placed shot from a 40 pound bow. There is the fact. I appreciate that fact and your post.
Thanks, John. I was beginning to question what I had posted originally and had to go back and read it again. This was not intended to be a "how little is enough thread."
Rick, if you decided to take another look could you please explain a little further about the comment "What HAPPENED to us, when I started bowhunting it was ALWAYS, shoot as much as you can handle accurately, now it seems to be, the absolute minimum amount of effort is plenty."
I had to laugh. I guarantee there was a lot of effort here. The effort was in building the bow, tunning it, practicing, stand placement, letting the deer pass at 5 yards with the possibility of not getting any shot at all because the angle was too steep, etc, etc.
Again, I understand the point both you and Ray are trying to make, I just don't believe that I would worry about the weight of my bow (for deer sized game) as much as the other factors. In all the years that I have hunted, and that's quite a few, I would have to say that FOR DEER, poor shot placement, and not lack of penetration, was the most contributing factor to lost game.
I also want to say that I appreciate the responses and don't mind some debate. I think we all want to hunt responsibly and that's probably the key to it all. Dave
Rick and Ray pretty much covered it.Things do happen that we have no control over.I lost a deer and I was shooting a 72# bow. It wasn't due to lack of poundage. I made an error in judgement.40# will take any animal if every thing goes perfect.Its those other times that should be of concern.
light for me is heavy for others. Heavy for me, is light for others. Good thing broadheads can be scarrry sharp.
Hey, if all you can pull is 30# and it is legal, shoot it. If you shoot something with it and it doesn't die, shoot something smaller! Yearlings are awful tender.
FYI, I don't shoot spotted fawns, althought they would probably taste great.