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Main Boards => PowWow => Topic started by: Crittergetter on February 16, 2016, 01:44:00 PM

Title: Profienciey test
Post by: Crittergetter on February 16, 2016, 01:44:00 PM
Had to get a "bow ed course" done to hunt in Alaska.
I did the online portion and just got signed up to do the field day next Sunday. I was going to go ahead and do the profienciey test also but why in the heck am I supposed to shoot the same distances and shoot alongside the compound shooters???? They said "Shots are set up to be within ethical ranges". Some shots are over 30 yrds. My ethical range is half that!  What the heck do I do now?   :dunno:
Title: Re: Profienciey test
Post by: oldgoat on February 16, 2016, 01:48:00 PM
Find you another,I've talked to an instructor in S Tex an his profienciey for trad is 2 hrs blood trailing. It is left up the instructor.
Title: Re: Profienciey test
Post by: ChuckC on February 16, 2016, 01:57:00 PM
THAT, is the reason I am vehemently against any sort of proficiency testing.   At whose ethical ranges ?  

And does it mean I am unethical if I can't hit $#!! at 30 yards (but I don't shoot more than 15) ?

Wanna see everybody complain... let a rifle hunter set up the shot course at rifle ethical ranges.
ChuckC
Title: Re: Profienciey test
Post by: Crittergetter on February 16, 2016, 02:07:00 PM
I'll begin looking elsewhere! I wish I could find an instructor who shoots trad!
Title: Re: Profienciey test
Post by: nineworlds9 on February 16, 2016, 02:13:00 PM
A compound is a vertical crossbow IMHO and they have no business testing you according to compound yardage shooting a stickbow with no sights as average Joe shooter.  I mean I don't know what level you're shooting at, but most folks aren't shooting well beyond 30 on stickbows unless they compete in Field archery or Oly.  I'm sure if you practiced with the right bow you'd be fine, like a longer, heavy riser setup, but its the principle of the thing.  Screw them.
Title: Re: Profienciey test
Post by: monterey on February 16, 2016, 02:14:00 PM
This might not be relevant, but I think you only need a bow hunter ed for AK if you Hunt an archery only season.  

And, I agree that pro tests are BS.  You can't regulate ethics.  A hunter who is proficient out to five yards could be more ethical than one who is proficient out to forty!

The best proficiency test I ever heard of was voluntary.  Shooting at a steel silhouette with a cut out in the vitals area.  Not really a pro test, but a dandy eye opener.   :biglaugh:
Title: Re: Profienciey test
Post by: on February 16, 2016, 02:31:00 PM
Proficiency testing does not test nerves in a hunting situation.  A local compound kid could never put all of his mechanics together when he had buck fever and as a result had two lost deer in two years with no tags filled.  I gave him a recurve, got him to understand what to expect and taught him what he needed to do to shoot out to 20 yards.  He shot the first adult deer that was within that range, declaring that it all happened so automatic that it seemed easy.  He would fail a 30 yard proficiency test.
Title: Re: Profienciey test
Post by: Crittergetter on February 16, 2016, 02:35:00 PM
As of July 1-2016 all bowhunters hunting in Alaska will be required to have taken (and passed) an IBEP or equivalent bow hunter ed course. I practice out to 25 on a regular basis but I limit all my hunting shots to around 15. 10 is even better! Lol
Title: Re: Profienciey test
Post by: Kingstaken on February 16, 2016, 02:37:00 PM
That's why many states no not have one. Too many variables per archers ability and actual hunting situation.
Simple answer since it does not state what bow you are permitted to shoot on your license, shoot a compound for the test.
Title: Re: Profienciey test
Post by: WESTBROOK on February 16, 2016, 02:52:00 PM
QuoteOriginally posted by Kingstaken:

Simple answer since it does not state what bow you are permitted to shoot on your license, shoot a compound for the test.
Bingo!

If they are gonna make you play the game...play...and play to win!
Title: Re: Profienciey test
Post by: Orion on February 16, 2016, 02:54:00 PM
I used to teach the IBEF safety course (along with Chuck C above).  As far as I know, there was never a proficiency test requirement as part of this course. Are you sure you need one to pass the course and get your hunter ed card?
Title: Re: Profienciey test
Post by: Flatshooter on February 16, 2016, 03:01:00 PM
I'd talk to your instructor about ethical shot distances with traditional equipment. If he's a reasonable and "ethical" person, I'm sure you'll be able to work out an agreeable distance solution between the two of you. As a backup, practice at 30 yds. It shouldn't be too difficult to zone in on a 30 yd target with practice. Good luck!
Title: Re: Profienciey test
Post by: Crittergetter on February 16, 2016, 03:27:00 PM
The proficiency test is not required to pass the course. I was going to go ahead and do it because it is required to hunt a specific wild life refuge here in tx and I thought it may come in handy one day! I havnt seen anything in the Alaska regs that says it is required either. I just wanted to kill 2 birds with 1 arrow.
Title: Re: Profienciey test
Post by: Griff812 on February 16, 2016, 03:39:00 PM
When I taught the class the proficiency portion of the test was to make sure you were aware of the equipment you were using and knew the limitations of that equipment.  We spent more time on the blood trailing portion of the class than we did on the proficiency portion.
Of course there can be different expectations from different instructors.  
I do know that it is required to bow hunt in Alaska.
Title: Re: Profienciey test
Post by: moebow on February 16, 2016, 03:52:00 PM
I can't say what Alaska requires now.  I took the test many years ago using a long bow.  At that time, 2 of 3 shots had to be in the kill zone on 6 different targets at various ranges and target sizes.  Of those targets, 5 were easy.  The last one though was a moose target at 47 yards.  I had to take the test twice before I passed.  First try, I could only get one "kill" at 47 yards.

Now, this was at least 25 years ago so things may have changed but at that time, the yardages were VERY much "compound" distances NOT trad range and there was NO accommodation for other than compound equipment.

I agree that allowances for the type of equipment used should be made, but it seems it often isn't.

Arne
Title: Re: Profienciey test
Post by: Jack Skinner on February 16, 2016, 03:58:00 PM
When I was in AK the proficiency test was only if you were going to hunt some very specific areas. I didnt hunt those areas.
Title: Re: Profienciey test
Post by: Arctic Hunter on February 16, 2016, 04:53:00 PM
When I did it, I believe it was 5 targets, two arrows each. You had to put 6 out of 10 arrows in the kill zone, as I recall. But that was a long time ago.

I think the furthest shot was like 27 yards. But don't quote me on that. It may have been 30. I remember thinking it was a little nerve racking for me at the time.
Title: Re: Profienciey test
Post by: on February 16, 2016, 05:11:00 PM
PM sent, Randy!

Bisch
Title: Re: Profienciey test
Post by: Tajue17 on February 16, 2016, 05:49:00 PM
I know of another efficiency test to hunt a certain piece of state property and I heard a few of the stickbows guys for that use a compound to pass the test.

and being totally honest I am the worst shot when it comes to shooting at a circle,, 30yds at paper I'd do the same and just walk away grinning.
Title: Re: Profienciey test
Post by: TSP on February 16, 2016, 05:54:00 PM
There's nothing wrong with bowhunting proficiency testing if it makes sense for the weapon used and considers rational decision making as part of the test.  The ability to make rational decisions (such as to shoot or not shoot based on the situation) is no less important that the ability to be accurate...and they're certainly not mutually exclusive.    

Many (I hope most) traditionalists consider 30 yard hunting shots as borderline unethical (or at least reliably impractical) when hunting without bow sites or gadget enhancements.  The only way that test shot makes sense is if you have the option to pass on it...which in this case (and in every hunting situation) you do.
Title: Re: Profienciey test
Post by: on February 16, 2016, 06:23:00 PM
Effective range is all in the hands of the shooter. I have been on a couple hunts for big critters where I practiced hard for 30yds, and was ready and good enough to make the 30 yd shot if that was all I though I was going to get. I have never taken it, as it was never presented, and know in my heart (for me) I would be looking to get closer, probably to the point where a shot was no longer there.

I have seen guys that I would never question taking a 30yd shot on a critter, and I have seen others that I believe do not have the skill to hunt way up close!

Every individual has to be honest with himself when making those decisions, and act accordingly!

Bisch
Title: Re: Profienciey test
Post by: Cyclic-Rivers on February 16, 2016, 06:31:00 PM
I have also known guys to use compounds to pass the test then hunt with what they pleased.  

If you do not have access and the shots are too far at the test, decline to shoot them and tell the instructor why.

He will either get it or wont. At which point you can walk away or finish based on what you feel is right.
Title: Re: Profienciey test
Post by: wingnut on February 16, 2016, 07:05:00 PM
Well I'll be danged.  Looks like John and I will have to take another class this year to get another card.  Been bowhunting for 45 years and now I need a card to do it in Alaska.

Oh well, looks like we have an instructor here in Weatherford.  I'll give him a call and see what we can set up.

Mike
Title: Re: Profienciey test
Post by: Terry Green on February 16, 2016, 07:10:00 PM
Ridiculous...this is a free country(well,...not anymore)....just more government BS!!!!!!!!!

Funny how the "government" can proclaim these tests....but not have enough rangers to police the management areas here in GA against the poachers.  Poachers could care less about 'tests'...just like gun laws!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

OK....I need to step off here before I start a sermon!!!!!!!
Title: Re: Profienciey test
Post by: Cwilder on February 16, 2016, 07:25:00 PM
I take one every year for each weapon I hunt with on a federal land I hunt in Maryland.
I took the bow hunter Ed course in 2002. At the end we walked a 3D range and guessed the yardage and made the shot. It's all up to the instructor with the shooting part
Title: Re: Profienciey test
Post by: BWallace10327 on February 16, 2016, 07:43:00 PM
A proficiency test is unacceptable.  If I'm *forced to shoot for score at known yardage I tend to shoot a lot worse and the idea that I couldn't hunt unless I "passed" would mess me up, I'd fail and several large and small game animals might still be alive today.
Title: Re: Profienciey test
Post by: Orion on February 16, 2016, 07:48:00 PM
Mike:  If you've hunted Alaska before and you have, aren't you grandfathered in, i.e., don't need a hunter ed certificate?  And, even if you do, a shooting proficiency test isn't required as far as I know.
Title: Re: Profienciey test
Post by: wingnut on February 16, 2016, 08:05:00 PM
Jerry,

It does not look like it.  In fact it is for both residents and nonresidents.  It looks like the IBEF course is the way to go.  It's offered everywhere and is the same as the Alaska course.

I'll post more when I've had a chance to talk with the local instructor.

Mike
Title: Re: Profienciey test
Post by: Crittergetter on February 16, 2016, 09:07:00 PM
Just to be clear, I havnt seen anywhere on the Ak website where it says a profienciey test is required. I just figured if go ahead and take it while I was at it just incase! Not trying to stir the pot but why doesn't the hunter ed courses for guns require a profienciey test? I spoke with jason from Weatherford and he said a "score" test wasn't needed to pass. Just the average field day stuff. Main focuse is understanding your equipment and safety. If y'all decide to take his course let me know and I'll try to take it with you. I've completed the online stuff. Just need the field day. (I think that's all he is doing)
Title: Re: Profienciey test
Post by: DanielB89 on February 16, 2016, 09:48:00 PM
Randy,

just imagine that each target is a pig and you should be fine!  ;)  

I look forward to "sharing the hunt" with you through pics and text!
Title: Re: Profienciey test
Post by: Crittergetter on February 16, 2016, 10:03:00 PM
I find out in 3 days if I draw!   :pray:
Title: Re: Profienciey test
Post by: DanielB89 on February 16, 2016, 10:08:00 PM
I know you got drawn for your Missouri deer tag..  ;)  


You also got drawn for your swine tag in LA.  Your chances are pretty good, buddy!
Title: Re: Profienciey test
Post by: wingnut on February 17, 2016, 12:18:00 PM
Yep I talked with Jason here in Weatherford last night.  He has a class Mar 5-6 that I'm going to try and get to the field portion on the 6th.

No proficiency test for this certification.  Some special hunts even here in TX require a test however, so make sure your hunt doesn't.

Mike
Title: Re: Profienciey test
Post by: Paul Cousineau on February 17, 2016, 03:01:00 PM
Does this certificate require periodic recertification, or is it a once and done deal?
Title: Re: Profienciey test
Post by: monterey on February 17, 2016, 03:32:00 PM
The Colorado hunter safety class ends with the students shooting a .22.  They don't have to hit the target, it's all about demonstrating safe firearm handling.  I think that is more supportive of the concepts the students should be focused on.

So, it's proficiency in terms of safety rather than shooting ability.

Not sure how that concept would apply to archery?

The sad thing is that entry into hunting is becoming more and more difficult for young people due to the artificial hurdles they must overcome.
Title: Re: Profienciey test
Post by: Crittergetter on February 17, 2016, 04:31:00 PM
Once you complete the class it's done. Just like hunters ed for gun hunting. But like Mike said there is a specific test for certain areas here in tx that are draw only areas. You must pass a shooting test. And must be retaken each time you draw for those areas. Each test I've read or talked to someone about is different. (Per the instructor) IT IS NOT REQUIRED TO PASS THE BOW ED COURSE!
The Ak web page concerning their bow ed course says each student must shoot 8 shots. 6 have to be in the vitals. Compound and trad shooters are held to the same standards.
But Like I said, nowhere in the regs can I find where it says you must pass a "profiency" test. Simply says you must take an approved bow ed course. Sorry if I confused anyone. Heck now I'm confused! Lol
Title: Re: Profienciey test
Post by: wingnut on February 17, 2016, 05:13:00 PM
It's once and done for life as long as you have the card.  I might give the proficiency test a go later in the summer when they hold it at one of the local ranges.  The instructor also mentioned a score card signed and witnessed by a shoot official as a possible for some of the proficiency tests.

But the new Alaska requirement is just the class.

Mike
Title: Re: Profienciey test
Post by: Burnsie on February 17, 2016, 05:18:00 PM
Several years ago a was fortunate to be drawn for a special hunt in a large piece of state land that had not been hunted in ages and was being opened up in an effort to "thin the herd".  It was full of huge bucks.  It required taking a proficiency test at a nearby archery shop/range. You had to hit 4 of 5 circles on a regulation 5-spot target at 20 yards.  I knew there was a good chance I would probably miss more than 1 cicle.  I called my brother up, he drove down, handed me his compound and I drilled all 5 after a few practice shots.  Amazed me I could pick up a bow I had never shot, line up the peep site and be dead on in a matter of minutes.
Anyway, I ended up killing a huge 8 year old doe with my recurve at 10 yards and never felt a bit guilty about using the compund to qualify.  I knew my limits and stayed within them.
Title: Re: Profienciey test
Post by: Olin Rindal on February 17, 2016, 05:39:00 PM
In Alaska what I've heard is the IBEF course requires you to take a proficientsy test to pass the coarce. I took mine in Montana and there was a field day but no proficientsy test. I guess different places have different standards. I personally don't think a proficientsy test is accurate of ones ability. I've seen guys shoot a 300 60x on a paper target and cannot hit an animal in the vitals to save his life. And I've seen a guy that cannot shoot a target but you get a criter under 20 yards and that critter is dead 100% of the time.
Title: Re: Profienciey test
Post by: md126 on February 17, 2016, 06:53:00 PM
Don't even get worked up over it. Just play the game and move on.

Shoot a compound for the test.
Title: Re: Profienciey test
Post by: BigTimber on February 17, 2016, 06:59:00 PM
I took my online over the weekend.  Going to Kodiak in late November but dang it, having shoulder surgery in one week.  Looks like I'll be taking the field test with a mechanical contraption.  Guess I better start looking for one to borrow.  May be July or Aug. before I'm healed up enough.
Title: Re: Profienciey test
Post by: md126 on February 17, 2016, 06:59:00 PM
And as far as proficiency tests, I don't necessarily agree with them but I understand why they are done in some cases

I personally think it's a nice way to counter the anti-hunting argument that we are nothing but a bunch of arrow flinging Cowboys. A tested/proven  level of proficiency is hard for the Antis to criticize. Just my opinion
Title: Re: Profienciey test
Post by: ChuckC on February 17, 2016, 07:01:00 PM
Can I use one of them new airgun / bows for the proficiency test and then my longbow to actually hunt ?  

Now THAT is a good use for them thar things....

I don't even agree with a test to counter the anti's.  

As I said,  whose criterion are we using ?

I don't shoot beyond 15 yards or so.  My last three deer, all from the ground, no pop up, all were less than 12 yards with the closest at 5 paces.  Why on earth do I need to prove I can hit at 30 when I won't be shooting at half of that.   And why thirty and not 90 or 150 ?

It is bogus, totally dude !

You know, whenever I get to hear from them ( this is Madison.... they are here) I get to hear about how I am forcing them away from their beloved wild spaces, and how the deer all look like pin cushions.

As many of us, I hunt a lot.  I have hunted parks and such in my time and hunted and scouted them hard.  

Come fall, I very rarely saw anybody else out there, ever, and certainly not off the trail systems in place.  Heaven forbid they might get lost or step on a snake.  

I have not yet, in my entire life, seen a pincushion run by.  I have only rarely ever seen an animal with an arrow visible (that I did not just shoot) out there.  They just don't stay in like that.

No test for me unless it makes sense.


ChuckC
Title: Re: Profienciey test
Post by: BAK on February 17, 2016, 07:47:00 PM
There should be no such test, period.  

But if I were designing one it would be a 3d shoot with some of the animals placed in poor shooting scenarios to test judgement.
Title: Re: Profienciey test
Post by: Crittergetter on February 17, 2016, 08:01:00 PM
I spoke with a conservation officer in Ak earlier. He said as long as i had my card (from an approved course) that was all I would need. He did say a proficiency test in shooting was a part of their course in Ak. So all the fuss over nothing. (Unless I hunt a specific area that requires it) which is not in my plans anytime soon.
Title: Re: Profienciey test
Post by: newhouse114 on February 17, 2016, 08:23:00 PM
I took my Alaska course nearly 30 years ago. It was only required at the time for archery specific hunts. Evidently that has changed. Not sure if I could still find my card or not! Proficiency was a required part of the course. Can't remember if I used my recurve or a wheel bow to pass.
Title: Re: Profienciey test
Post by: Deno on February 17, 2016, 08:32:00 PM
Alaska accepts hunter education cards from other states that offer a state-approved Basic Hunter Education course
Title: Re: Profienciey test
Post by: Deno on February 17, 2016, 08:37:00 PM
Non-Resident Hunters

All bowhunters must have a Bowhunter Education Certification Card on their person while bow hunting in all "archery only" areas of Alaska. Alaska accepts the NBEF or IBEP Certification Cards from any State/Province sponsored "bowhunter education specific" courses (not combination classes). Other state's bowhunting licenses, tags, stamps, age exemptions, etc. are not adequate to fulfill Alaska's requirements.
Title: Re: Profienciey test
Post by: Crittergetter on February 17, 2016, 09:04:00 PM
 (http://i324.photobucket.com/albums/k359/crittergetter76/Mobile%20Uploads/2016-02/33353FC1-3F9F-400A-91DE-7CD121910B08_zpsewhlwicu.png) (http://s324.photobucket.com/user/crittergetter76/media/Mobile%20Uploads/2016-02/33353FC1-3F9F-400A-91DE-7CD121910B08_zpsewhlwicu.png.html)
Title: Re: Profienciey test
Post by: Deno on February 17, 2016, 10:38:00 PM
I saw that also Randy.  I emailed them with questions.  Also planning a trip this year.
Deno
Title: Re: Profienciey test
Post by: Crittergetter on February 18, 2016, 12:17:00 AM
QuoteOriginally posted by Deno:
I saw that also Randy.  I emailed them with questions.  Also planning a trip this year.
Deno
Best of luck to you!!!
The guy I spoke with was very friendly and eager to help. Keep us updated with any new info you may get.
Title: Re: Profienciey test
Post by: Bill Sant on February 18, 2016, 01:13:00 AM
I'm glad someone finally gave the right answer.  As it states, you have to have an IBEP approved bowhunter course to hunt big game anywhere in the state during ANY big game hunt starting July 1st, using archery equipment.

It used to be that only the weapon specific archery only hunts required you to be certified.

I along with many of my fellow instructors did not want this to happen, especially up here.  We as Alaskans have always taken a certain pride in being the last to cowtow to government intrusion on our rights, especially as it pertains to our hunting privileges.

On the other hand after certifying hundreds of people through this course I have only flunked 2 people, and I HATED doing that.

The longest shot you'll be making is 28 yards at a full size billy goat target, (about twice the size as a deer).  Another thing is to not pi@@ off the instructor as we all have the option to reshoot the same day at the INSTRUCTORS DISCRETION..  It used to be that you had to come back with another class.  I personally will reshoot any guys as many times as it takes if time allows.

The shots will be 14 yards, 20 yards, 10 yards from a raised platform, and the 28 yard billy shot. If you can't pass this test I'd think long and hard about coming all the way up here with just your bow.  Like it or not it is now the law,,,,it is what it is.  Give me a call if you want and I can answer any more questions.  And yes you have to shoot the same distances as the wheelie guys but this test is way under rated for them.  They call me the trad geek up here as I'm the only traditional only instructor up here to my knowledge.  Are you signed up to take the test up here??  If so there isa good chance I'll be teaching.
Title: Re: Profienciey test
Post by: Bill Sant on February 18, 2016, 01:27:00 AM
And yes the proficiency test is required to pass any IBEP course anywhere you take it.  It is part of the program..........and nobody gets "grandfathered in" just because you hunted here before.
Title: Re: Profienciey test
Post by: stujay on February 18, 2016, 01:52:00 AM
I took the Alaska test with a recurve and yes others used their compounds. We all passed...if you are reasonably proficient you shouldn't have a problem. It was actually much like any 3d shoot. Wishing straight shooting to you.
Title: Re: Profienciey test
Post by: Deno on February 18, 2016, 05:33:00 AM
Thanks for the explaination Bill
Deno
Title: Re: Profienciey test
Post by: mgf on February 18, 2016, 06:34:00 AM
I took an IBEP course in 1995. I don't remember shooting.
Title: Re: Profienciey test
Post by: Archie on February 18, 2016, 01:54:00 PM
This may have already been mentioned, but if not...

You can call the Alaska Dept of Fish and Game and get a replacement card if you've taken their course.  I don't know how far back that goes, but I took my course somewhere around 1992, and when I contacted them a couple of years ago, it took a single phone call to get a card re-issued to me.
Title: Re: Profienciey test
Post by: Bill Sant on February 18, 2016, 02:28:00 PM
mgf,  it may not have been a requirement that long ago.  You know how government intrusion works,,,first you have to take a class, then they add to it as time goes on.

And Archie you are correct although I think they charge 5 bucks for that now...thx
Title: Re: Profienciey test
Post by: Orion on February 18, 2016, 02:36:00 PM
You need to have an IBEF or similar bowhunter education certificate to hunt in Alaska, but that training does not require a proficiency test.  As far as I know, IBEF certification in any state does not require a proficiency test.  Some instructors might incorporate it into the instruction, but it is not a requirement for passing the test and receiving the certification.

Check out Alaska Department of Fish and Game's website.  You can take the course on line (just as you can here in Wisconsin). How does one show shooting proficiency online?
Title: Re: Profienciey test
Post by: on February 18, 2016, 05:11:00 PM
QuoteOriginally posted by Orion:
You need to have an IBEF or similar bowhunter education certificate to hunt in Alaska, but that training does not require a proficiency test.  As far as I know, IBEF certification in any state does not require a proficiency test.  Some instructors might incorporate it into the instruction, but it is not a requirement for passing the test and receiving the certification.

Check out Alaska Department of Fish and Game's website.  You can take the course on line (just as you can here in Wisconsin). How does one show shooting proficiency online?
Yes, you can take the course online, but you also have to do a Field Day that you have to attend in person. The Field Day that I did when I took my IBEP course included hands on treestand safety, hands on blood trailing, and actual shooting at targets.

Bisch
Title: Re: Profienciey test
Post by: Deno on February 18, 2016, 06:29:00 PM
Same here in NJ.   Written test, field class and shooting test.  My NJ card says IBEP Certified Bowhunter Education.  
Deno
Title: Re: Profienciey test
Post by: newhouse114 on February 18, 2016, 06:52:00 PM
Did a brief search and found mine! 1991. Two signatures from instructors, one for the classroom and one for the "field experience" part.  The classroom instuctor was a Judith A, McSomething or other, and the field tester was a Pat McCabe. Wonder if either of them are still active in this.
Title: Re: Profienciey test
Post by: Orion on February 18, 2016, 07:53:00 PM
Yep.  should have read further/more carefully.  Alaska does require a field day after the electronic part of the instruction is completed.  Though it does indicate shooting is part of the field day, it does not indicate there is a proficiency test.  

I scrolled through the entire IBEF online instructional manual.  No mention anywhere of having to pass a proficiency test to pass the class and receive the hunter safety certificate.
Title: Re: Profienciey test
Post by: Bill Sant on February 18, 2016, 08:27:00 PM
Well then I suggest you take the course and the field day and refuse to take or pass the shooting proficiency and let us know how that works out for you.
Title: Re: Profienciey test
Post by: Olin Rindal on February 18, 2016, 09:19:00 PM
Bill like I stated above instructers in Alaska require you to pass a proficientsy test to receive a IBEP card. Other places don't. When I taught in Montana we had them shoot their bow to demonstrate that they could shoot and we had treestand safty, and blood trailing but they never had to take a "proficientsy" test to receive a IBEP card. Like I mentioned above just because you can hit foam doesn't mean you can make a good shot on a live critter.
Title: Re: Profienciey test
Post by: Olin Rindal on February 18, 2016, 09:20:00 PM
Bill like I stated above instructers in Alaska require you to pass a proficientsy test to receive a IBEP card. Other places don't. When I taught in Montana we had them shoot their bow to demonstrate that they could shoot and we had treestand safty, and blood trailing but they never had to take a "proficientsy" test to receive a IBEP card. Like I mentioned above just because you can hit foam doesn't mean you can make a good shot on a live critter.
Title: Re: Profienciey test
Post by: Olin Rindal on February 18, 2016, 09:21:00 PM
Sorry for the double post
Title: Re: Profienciey test
Post by: Orion on February 18, 2016, 11:34:00 PM
Bill: I've hunted Alaska. I'm an IBEF instructor.  Took the course about 20 years ago and taught it for about 15 years subsequent.  Haven't taught it in the past five years or so.  

Things apparently have changed.  I managed to drill down on the Alaska Fish and Game web site.  Apparently the state now does require a shooting proficiency test as part of the certification process.  Wonder how that affects folks like me who already have IBEF certification, or others who will take the course in their home states where proficiency testing may not be required.  I expect Alaska will accept IBEF certification earned in other states. Haven't checked that out yet.
Title: Re: Profienciey test
Post by: Bill Sant on February 19, 2016, 01:03:00 AM
Olin and Orion,,,I owe you an apology as you are correct about the proficiency test requirements.  The proficiency test is only required if the state teaching the course requires it...Alaska does honor any NBEF/IBEP card for our state hunts with or without the shooting proficiency.  My bad guys.  Think I'll go talk to the Captain (Morgan) and go out to the hot tub and soak my ego.  Just make sure you have your card with you if you come up for a hunt.  Our state records can't search and find qualifications for other states.
Title: Re: Profienciey test
Post by: Olin Rindal on February 19, 2016, 01:07:00 AM
No worries Bill. I've been looking over web sights to confirm that I wasn't giving out bad advice.
Title: Re: Profienciey test
Post by: Bill Sant on February 19, 2016, 01:12:00 AM
Yeah I actually got hold of Ginamaria to confirm

And remember all you guys coming to Alaska, that starting July 1 you must have a bowhunter cert card to hunt big game ANYWHERE in the state of Alaska with your bows.  This is going to cause some friction I'm sure, but at least that wasn't my fault...LOL
Title: Re: Profienciey test
Post by: Deno on February 19, 2016, 01:22:00 AM
Enjoy the Capt and the hot tub Bill!!  Thanks for the info!!!
Deno
Title: Re: Profienciey test
Post by: J-dog on February 19, 2016, 07:04:00 AM
I want to go get mine, the NC one or the bowhunter safety one so I can go out west. They said trad bows are at 15 yards 6 out of ten arrows in a six inch pie plate.?? I think?

I cannot get the IBEP one here in NC??? They don't have the state listed.

OK I can do the National BEP. Gonna go in March -


J
Title: Re: Profienciey test
Post by: Deno on February 19, 2016, 07:26:00 AM
Jason
Checked the NC website

North Carolina Archery - Today's Bowhunter


Overview

The Today's Bowhunter ® curriculum is approved by the National Bowhunter Education Foundation.  Certification is accepted in every state and province in North America.

 

Deno
Title: Re: Profienciey test
Post by: Orion on February 19, 2016, 12:13:00 PM
Well, we stumbled around a bit, but eventually got to the bottom of it  All is well. The Captain and hot tub sure sounds good.
Title: Re: Profienciey test
Post by: on February 19, 2016, 12:25:00 PM
Important PM sent, Randy!!!!!

Bisch
Title: Re: Profienciey test
Post by: foxbo on February 19, 2016, 06:19:00 PM
We're all lucky there was no "proficiency" test for sex, or we would not have been born! LOL!

That's about all I have to say about "proficiency testing".
Title: Re: Profienciey test
Post by: J-dog on February 19, 2016, 07:39:00 PM
Thank you Deno! Appreciate that. I got registered up but it isn't until Aug but no rush anyhoo.

J
Title: Re: Profienciey test
Post by: McDave on February 19, 2016, 07:42:00 PM
QuoteOriginally posted by foxbo:
We're all lucky there was no "proficiency" test for sex, or we would not have been born! LOL!

That's about all I have to say about "proficiency testing".
Where do I sign up for that?
Title: Re: Profienciey test
Post by: foxbo on February 20, 2016, 08:40:00 AM
McDave, I looked at your pic. You're too late to apply! :) LOL!
Title: Re: Profienciey test
Post by: calgarychef on February 20, 2016, 10:05:00 AM
Proficiency tests are a real concern for trad hunters, obviously we can't shoot at 30 or more yards accurately.  I've seen some folks out hunting who couldn't hit a 20 inch circle at 20 yards but they're flinging arrows at game.  A little self temperance is sometimes a good idea.
Title: Re: Profienciey test
Post by: wingnut on February 20, 2016, 10:31:00 AM
Heck I'm in favor of proficiency qualification for all hunting weapons that are tailored to the weapon.

I just completed the on line part of the IBEF class and have scheduled the field portion.
It is of note that the class emphasizes that a bow is a short range weapon and that shots should and most often are taken at under 20 yds.  A qualification of 10 targets under 20 yds and including shots that shouldn't be taken would be welcome IMHO.

Mike
Title: Re: Profienciey test
Post by: Archie on February 20, 2016, 01:22:00 PM
I've seen a flurry of pictures in the news lately of animals wandering around with arrows sticking out of them.  It seems to me that a reasonable standard of proficiency would be a good way to keep us all from being lumped together as careless and cruel.  If we can shoot well enough to hunt ethically, we should be able to pass a properly-designed proficiency test.

Maybe traditional bowhunting organizations could put together a voluntary proficiency test or hunting/safety/shooting proficiency course.  We could voluntarily take it and receive a card that shows that we took the initiative to become responsible traditional bowhunters, without having a state requirement.  It is true that if people would properly police themselves, externally-imposed policing would not be needed.
Title: Re: Profienciey test
Post by: foxbo on February 20, 2016, 05:11:00 PM
"I've seen a flurry of pictures in the news lately of animals wandering around with arrows sticking out of them."

Archie, got any links to those pics?
Title: Re: Profienciey test
Post by: on February 20, 2016, 07:35:00 PM
QuoteOriginally posted by foxbo:
"I've seen a flurry of pictures in the news lately of animals wandering around with arrows sticking out of them."

Archie, got any links to those pics?
Most all the ones I have seen on the news have been by knuckleheads who shoot stuff in/near the city with field points. Those have nothing to do with hunters who know what they are doing!!!!

Bisch
Title: Re: Profienciey test
Post by: Archie on February 20, 2016, 07:52:00 PM
This is the most recent one:

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/11/11/remember-the-deer-shot-through-the-face-with-an-arrow-heres-how-its-doing/

I cringed that one because I wouldn't be surprised to think it's a trad shooter, considering the arrow and Zwickey broadhead.  

I'll see if I can find the others.  Two of them were moose in interior Alaska if I remember correctly.
Title: Re: Profienciey test
Post by: Archie on February 20, 2016, 08:06:00 PM
I just did a search and there's a lot of pictures to be seen, although the internet has that interesting ability to make any forwarded news articles seem current.

I work for local government, and have helped deal with situations where animals were found with arrows in them.  The truth is that it happens, and I, for one, am not going to cry over accidentally wounding an animal, but I work very hard to shoot well so that happens as rarely as possible.  

I think that a proficiency test, if mandated by a bunch of unreasonable state officials, could be a real stinker for trad shooters.  So I would support a movement towards internally policing ourselves, as I mentioned above, so that the state (in general) doesn't feel that they need to do it.
Title: Re: Profienciey test
Post by: BWallace10327 on February 20, 2016, 08:11:00 PM
QuoteOriginally posted by Archie:
I've seen a flurry of pictures in the news lately of animals wandering around with arrows sticking out of them.  It seems to me that a reasonable standard of proficiency would be a good way to keep us all from being lumped together as careless and cruel.  If we can shoot well enough to hunt ethically, we should be able to pass a properly-designed proficiency test.

Maybe traditional bowhunting organizations could put together a voluntary proficiency test or hunting/safety/shooting proficiency course.  We could voluntarily take it and receive a card that shows that we took the initiative to become responsible traditional bowhunters, without having a state requirement.  It is true that if people would properly police themselves, externally-imposed policing would not be needed.
Would your idea of a proficiency course be a minimum score on a target round or an official following me around shooting pine cones?     :dunno:  
I, among many, have "dissociative archer identity disorder".
Title: Re: Profienciey test
Post by: Archie on February 20, 2016, 08:26:00 PM
My opinion of what would be a good test  probably doesn't really matter.  I'm just saying I think we'd be wise to have some kind of evidence showing that we did something to establish a proficiency level before we start putting game in our line of fire.  There's a reason why the State of Alaska changed their laws and now require evidence of some level of knowledge and proficiency.  It's because for years people have been coming across caribou and moose with arrows sticking out of them, and the State said enough is enough.  I grew up there, and in the 80's, I remember people talking about how you just had to go out and get a bow, and you could hunt all the honey holes that were archery-only.  And I also remember hearing about frustrated hunters seeing caribou herds with some animals having arrows in them.  I never saw it, but that's what I heard.  So it is my opinion that it is wise to be able to show that one has been diligent in becoming a responsible shooter... before the powers that be start requiring proficiency tests across the board.
Title: Re: Profienciey test
Post by: ChuckC on February 21, 2016, 10:44:00 AM
Archie, as I have said, I hunt a lot of days and I have never seen an arrow in a deer or elk that I didn't just put there.  For one, they break or get pulled.  I'm sure you can find one, but I don't believe all the stories, especially by folks that I have never even seen out in the woods during fall.

Ya know, the idea of a test sounds good.  Yup, we should be proficient.  But the format of the test is what I question.  

I don't shoot 30 yards at critters, period.  Why on earth is it so important for me to be able to show proficiency at some stupid range like that ( for me..... next guy might be capable and THAT is what brings up the issue). More important should be the training that you need to stay within your range, even if it is only 5 yards.

Then..... so I have a high speed compound with pins out to 70 or 80 yards, heck, even 100 yards.  Do they make those folks shoot out to the range of their lowest pin ?  In the wind ?  From a tree,  between trees and branches as in hunting, not field archery ?

Finally, all that said and done, so I tested out to 30 yards, hit em all ( damn I'm good), then the big ol buck walks by at 60 and the arrows are flying.  How do you legislate that ?  How do you test for that ?

You know, the industry has raised all kinds of hell about making archery more accessible, make it so easy even a near totally disabled person can do it, a 5 year old child can do it...and then they turn around and say but not you, you can't shoot out to 30 yards and WE think you should be able.  No hunting for you.
CHuckC
Title: Re: Profienciey test
Post by: foxbo on February 21, 2016, 12:31:00 PM
The best shot in the world can still make a bad shot.
Title: Re: Profienciey test
Post by: Terry Green on February 21, 2016, 12:46:00 PM
QuoteOriginally posted by calgarychef:
obviously we can't shoot at 30 or more yards accurately.  
this is why I'm against them.....one person speaks for all.  never been a fan of the broad brush....

I think this one has run its course......   :campfire: