I thought I would share a bit of knowledge about how you lose heat aka get cold.
The five ways the body loses heat are
Conduction
Convection
Radiation
Respiration
Perspiration/Moisture/Evaporation
Conduction is the physical process where heat is lost because you are touching something cold. So don't sit or lay on the bare ground, a large stone or a snow covered log. Put some insulation between you and it. be sure there is good insulation between your sleeping bag and the ground. If you're hunting in Winter bring a 3'X 3' hunk of carpet with pad stapled together to stand on. Put some kind of pad on the tree you're leaning on in the treestand or on the ground.
Convection is the heat lost from the wind blowing over/around you. So putting it simply, stay out of the wind. Use self made and natural occuring windbreaks. Put your camp in the wind shadow of same as well as your stands. Wear a windproof layer if possible.
Radiation is heat lost just because your standing in the great wide open. Even though you are clothed well with a hat, a scarf, gloves, etc. The heat still radiates off you. It also radiates out of your tent. Having some kind of roof above you will help reduce heat loss from radiation. That is also another reason to put a tarp over your tent not just to keep the snow off your tent but to be a radiation inhibitor/reflector. I've never personally tried it but those treestand umbrella roofs might help in this regard.
These first three are why it is urgent to get yourself a shelter in a survival situation. A proper shelter will get you off direct contact with the ground, block the wind and cover you to hold in radiant heat.
Respiration is your own breath. You take in cold air and exhale warm, moist air. The faster you breath the faster you'll get cold. Control your breathing. Easy does it in activities in cold weather. I've never had one to try but one of those fairly new heat exchanger face covers might be a good investment for the Deep cold Season. Slow, steady work is much better than rushing, grunting and heaving in gulps of cold air. This also brings us to the last...
Perspiration or sweating...to put it simply, sweating can kill you. While exercise can heat up your muscles and warm you all over, you must not sweat. You should be dressed in layers against the cold, so if you're working, strip layers. If you sweat strip and dry yourself with a towel if available. Not just sweat but any mositure is lethal in the deep cold. Rain, slushy snow or falling into water are all potentional killers. You need to get out of wet weather or the water, and get yourself and your clothes dry just as fast as you safely can. You have longer than you think before serious hypothermia starts. As long as you can, and are shivering you're in the self save-able zone. If you stop shivering and get foggy in thought you better have a friend with you or immediate rescue. A word here on wool. Yes it can keep you warm when damp but it sucks up a lot of water if you fall in . The same is true for most synthetic insulation.
Try swimming in any of it. You'll find it is the most exhausting activity you've ever tried. Extreme care must be taken when walking on ice.
So remember whenever and whereever possible don't sit, stand or lay on bare ground or object. Try to stay out of the wind. Keep under cover. Control your breathing. Stay dry, stay warm, stay alive.
Thanks Curtiss....great info there.
Some good stuff there. Thanks.
Bill
You're welcome, I could probably teach winter survival courses after having grown up in Michigan and been a Marine and all. Plus I'm one of those guys that always studies outdoor survival stuff. Just glad I have this forum to share it.
Thanks Curtiss....knew some of that stuff but your post sure did jog my memeory! Let me know next time you're up my way and well get some coffee! Mike
Great info thanks!
Hey Mike I may be up in Terra Haute next Monday or Tuesday looking for work. I'll pm you when I know for sure.
TTT4E
cleaned up some typos and such.
Thanks, good info for an ol boy who moved from TX to to the northwoods.
ttt 4 everyone that hasn't seen it yet, because I feel this information is too important to let the post slip into obscurity.
Thanks for the great info. Always "loose and layered" is what they taught me at Bridgeport. Semper Fi!
TTT4 mysticguido
Some good info there. Fortunately growing up in the great white north I got to learn those lessons as a kid.
And try not to panic should be added. Late last winter I went through the ice on a beaver pond up to my arm pits with my snowshoes on. It is not possible for anyone to pull themselves out of the water when that happens with the shoes still on, trust me. The hole is filled in with the ice and slush you broke loose. Your snowshoes act against you. Had to reach under the ice and unbuckel the shoes to climb out. I don't remember being cold, just scaried. I hadn't told anyone where I was going that day and that was my first mistake. Second was trusting late season ice over moving water even on a cold day. I was wearing wool (nothing is better)and only had about a mile back to the truck so I didn't bother trying to dry out. By the time I go to the truck I was walking almost like Gumby cause my pants had frozen pretty good. Lesson learned.
I am a warm nut, I do some crazy stuff to keep warm. If I get cold, I just don't enjoy sitting on stand.
WE need to share some keeping warm thoughts.
It was 17 degrees here in the mountains this morning. My big thing I learned is controlling perspiration. I want my back as warm as I can get it for the shot. This is what I did, I wore ulfrotte wool light underwear and mediam underwear together, with KOM hillbilly bibs to my stand. For my feet, I wear bunny boots and I also put lavilin foot cream on during the hunting season to keep them dry. In a frame pack, I put polarfleece vest with pockets sewed in to were I put those hand warmers in. One over each kidney and one in the small of my back. Then I put KOM bowmans jacket and heater body suit. For my face I put a damart hood and a fleece watch cap. I pack that to the top of the mountain and get dressed at my stand. Up the tree, then pull up my body heater suit and bow. I keep my hand with wool gloves in my pockets with hand warmers, I also put a hand warmer in the back my cap in a fold. The blood going up the back of your neck is warmed. I can easilly shoot with this set up. I was warm enough this morning that I fell asleep several times. Oh, forgot to mention that I put my hunter safety system harness under my king of the mountain jacket.
One thing I have learned that different parts of the country require different set ups. You GA boys hunting in 40 degree weather and the moisture coming in from the gulf can be brutal. I don't know how you stay warm, I hunted there about 10 years ago and it got down to freezing but I could not wick the moisure off.
For a shelter, I have kifaru tipee, with a stove for extreme situations, If you get caught in a storm elk hunting for example. Its one of the best things I have foung for survival things. It can be 15 out and I can raise the temp in the tepee to tee shirt weather(70degrees).
If you guys got anymore good ideas, send them my way. Always looking for suggestions. This year, during extreme wind, I hunted out of a DB blind. This really helps. I heard some guys taking a heater in the blind with them,. I haven't tried that. Tim in NC
If you are a religious scent-control zealot, please just pass this by because it will make you want to punch me in the brain.
Anyway, I got the idea from reading about Simon Kenton and this has worked pretty well so far. I like sitting on the ground (on a pad) when I'm on stand. Lately, I've been taking with me a wool blanket to wrap up in when it starts getting uncomfortably cold.
When it gets a bit colder, I whip out a can of Sterno (probably not as traditional as the white oak bark that SK used, but whatever) and light it inside my little blanket shelter. My head is outside - don't want those nasty dangerous Sterno fumes in my bod - and I frequently check to make sure the fire is no where near either the blanket of my pants (or anything else down there - yike). Obviously, this is not the time to doze off, but 5-10 minutes of this is good enough to warm me right back up.
Yes - the Sterno is stinky and anything downwind will stop and say 'hrm'. Yes - this could cause important things to catch on fire if one is not careful. Yes - this is a toasty warm portable campfire.
Your mileage may vary. :-D
I read that Simon Kenton story too...good substitute!
Does anybody use panty hose as a base layer anymore? Or will ya admit to ever using them? :jumper:
TTT4 those who still haven't sen it and to go along with the most recent post about staying warm.
A substitute for the Sterno is a coffee can with a roll of toilet tissue. Saturate the roll of tissue with a plastic bottle of rubbing alcohol. Just have a way to snuff the fire out when you are through. No odor with this heat source. You might want to drill holes and put a wire handle on it in case you need to move it while its still hot.
QuoteOriginally posted by rtherber:
A substitute for the Sterno is a coffee can with a roll of toilet tissue. Saturate the roll of tissue with a plastic bottle of rubbing alcohol. Just have a way to snuff the fire out when you are through. No odor with this heat source. You might want to drill holes and put a wire handle on it in case you need to move it while its still hot.
Hey cool - I'll mess with that. Thanks for the tip. :-)
"no thanks" to the "open flame" concept while actually hunting, for me!
TTT now that the cold weather is hitting even Florida, it may save some Southern lives after all.
C2, I have noticed that I stay warmer when I set my tree umbrella up. Actually, I notice I get colder when I take it down, :o so I just assumed the opposite was true. Maybe I'll set it up more often!
The Florida hunters Thank You. Temps in the high 40's this morning.
You're Welcome Florida Hunters.I'm Glad I could help.
TTT 4 This Winter
hey c2 whats it like in Indiana in oct-nov cold or not bad?
C2: good info.
Question: what do traditional bowhunters have against goose down or a synthetic insulation like Climashield/Polarguard?
Once you are in a treestand and not sweating why not wear a down vest or jacket with a good windblocker layer on top? The best cold-weather sleeping bags are down, not wool or fleece. With all the new raingear available, keeping the down dry is not a problem.
I have been wondering what to do about keeping my feet warm. When they get cold or worse cold and wet i am just miserable. Now mind you i am wearing medieval boots....but with a layer of rubber on the bottom. I have treated and treated them with the water proffing stuff but it doesnt seem to relly help.
I wear these both for hunting and when we have archery competitions.....no matter what the weather turns out to be you are out there shooting.
It never did occur to me to keep my feet on some kind of padding :knothead: and i will do that when possible.
The only thing i have found that helps is for me to change out my wool socks. If it is just from the sweating then that works for awhile but if the leather is wet of course it doesnt matter.
So....i was thinking about getting some of those water proff socks at Bass Pro....that would stop your feet from getting wet and will probably help with insulation....but wouldnt they also just keep the sweat in and make my feet cold?
Thanks for any advice!
Lance
Lance you may want to try a pair of Seal Skinz Gor-tex socks. The gor-tex socks allow sweat to escape while keeping water out. For leather boots you can't beat Sno Seal for weatherproofing. You could also use a pair of old fashion galloshes(sp) over your boots. From the reading and research I've done the medieval hunter abandoned the leather boots in the Winter and bound up their feet in multiple layers of wool and raw animal skins with the hair side in and maybe tar or pitchpine covering the outside.You could use some "eskimo" mukluks that were "traded for from a man from the far mystic Northlands." I stalk into my stand with footwear suited to that and bring along footwear suited for staying comfortable on stand. Oh one last thing, medievaland primitive hunters did their level best not to get wet in the first place. When they had to cross water they were likely to strip completely, cross the water au naturale after throwing their gear in a bundle across or carrying it over head and then drying with the leaf litter or grass on the other side and building a fire to warm and dry themseleves further and then redress and continue on; but then they were a hardy lot. :bigsmyl:
It was 7 degrees with a 10-20 mph wind here Monday morning but i managed to stick the morning out in a treestand. Thanks to several LAYERS, Berber Windsheer and Boot Blankets.
Looked like the Michlen Man.
HO'NEHE Jeff it doesn't get anywhere near as cold here in southwestern Indiana as it did in ANY part of Michigan where I grew up. Maybe one or two days all Winter where it is 0 degrees F.
The bad thing here is it can be right near freezing and rain instead of snow and wet and cold is even less fun than it sounds. I don't have to wear more than 3 layers here usually. I went to a Winter shoot in Kentucky last year and all the Kentuckians were dressed for a blizzard. I had on cotton/poly BDU pants, a T-shirt a light weight wool button down shirt and fleece jacket with a wool felt fedora I also had a Peruvian alpaca chullo cap but it proved too warm for me. On my feet I had wool socks and New Balance Country walker shoes, sort of a low rise hiking boot. I was the only one that didn't complain about the 35 degree temps.
Good topic C2,
Great info.
Even though my profile says I am in Florida, I spent some time in cold places.
I am also a former Marine and after that joined the Army.
I retired from the 10th Mountain Division at Ft. Drum in upstate New York, I also was in Colorado and Iceland.( and a few hot sandy places)
Two words I learned very quick - "Cotton Kills"
Stay away from cotton undergarments or t-shirts in cold weather, especially wet cold.
Go with polypro, wool, underarmor cold gear, etc..
I can't add anymore to what C2 said, he nailed it.
Semper Fi, and "airborne"
John
Thanks C2 i wil check out those socks! but i sure as heck aint getting naked to cross any rivers!!! Now that would be a sight i dont even want to picture much less see!
:biglaugh:
You're welcome Lance.
You'd make youtube for sure. :biglaugh:
ttt2educateothers
Hey just a bit more info.
On the subject of sweaters, jumpers the brits and aussies call them, are for adding a layer under your coat. They add loft with their cable weave in the knitting. This makes a wool cushion filled with dead air that your coat or jacket lay over. As outer wear themselves sweaters aren't as good. Sure they are warmer than unlined jackets; but their best suited to add loft and wool warmth under that unlined jacket.
I actually made a minor mistake today in dressing for the weather. The weather channel told me it was 20 degrees this morning so I put one my merino wool longjohns and then my bdu pants. The wind was really whipping so I decided to put on my Codet wool bibs too and a thick sweater over my shirt. Then I put on a medium weight shirtjac. I did this to take my daily 5 mile walk without getting a chill. Well I got about 1/2 a mile with the pack on my back when I realized I was just a little over dressed. I didn't need the sweater or the alpaca wool chullo hat I had under my wool Donegal cap. So I had to stop and strip layers. I should have just brought the chullo and the sweater for "in case" straped down on the pack. I was just getting over a cold so I wanted to take extra care; but I over did it a little. I think this is a good example of a common mistake. Bring an extra layering item like a sweater for "in case" but start out dressed lighter and add the layers you've brought along if you find you need them. Sweating is BAD. Luckily I stripped down before I had really broke a sweat.
Huntsmanlance,
My Granddad always wore unlined leather "chucka" style boots with leather soles and heels. I have no idea where he got them.
Anyway, his boots sound similar to yours. To totally waterproof his he always sat them by the woodstove (in front of an open oven would too I guess). When they were a little more than warm to the touch, but not hot, he would slather them with the beeswax based boot dressing to excess. He would put them back next to the heat till it soaked in. He would repete this a few times.
To finish it off he would reheat the boots and put a can of neatsfoot oil next to the heat to warm up. Then he would pour it in each boot to as close to the top as he could get it and let it sit for half an hour or so, then dump the oil back in the can (I think it comes in brown plastic jugs now). After he let them sit next to the fire a while longer, the oil soaked in and I guess blended with the beeswax stuff from the outside forming an impervious layer.
I followed him around as a kid for many years. He was a cranky, onery old cuss (Oh how I loved him though..) but he never had wet feet and those boots were always soft and lasted a long time.
It's been really cold around here in Oklahoma the past few days as well. I stay pretty warm in my wool and use the little heat packs folks use for backache. They are bigger than the hothands deals and have a snazzy "belt" that wraps around my lower back. I can get away with fewer layers and am able to move around easier. It is hard for me to draw my bow when I have on too many clothes.
OkKeith
TTT because Winter is here
Cold fronts moving in and rabiit hunting going on so TTT
Back in my wilder days I spent a winter guarding a cabin for some folks in the mountains of Colorado. Using the outhouse on a -30 degree night was an experience! I took a styrofoam cooler and cut out a toilet seat to use in place of the one in it. It provided GREAT insulation and warmed up as soon as you sat on it.
I would say that having a piece of that on your tree stand seat to sit on would be beneficial. It would provide more insulation that just a piece of carpeting.
ttt as the cold weather is returning.
Dont forget to leave your jewelry at home, especailly that expensive watch with the heavy gold or stainless steel band, it will suck the heat right out of you. I have a friend who used to use sterno under a survival type blanket to keep his lower body warm- he quit after he set himself on fire while drawing on a doe- luckily his woolrich pants kept anything important from being singed, and no he did not get the deer
Natural fire retardance is another reason to wear wool.
QuoteOriginally posted by C2:
TTT4 mysticguido
Why thanx, Great info you posted. I would like to add if you heat up some rocks you can use them to help keep you warm and they also help in drying clothes and mostly socks. If you can heat up so water and have it in a canteen, put the canteen in you're sleeping bag to keep you warm as you sleep.
Better yet move to a warmer place like I did this Year. I left The Great northeast to Live in Tejas.
ttt for Curtis and the gang. Tis' important 8^).
Being able to keep warm is important, but along with that, so is being able to recognize the early warning signs of hypothermia. It doesnt have to be cold outside, hypothermia can begin in fairly mild conditions.
I had an experience this summer while fishing, a front came through, dropping temps to 65-70 degrees, along with 15-20 mph winds and rain. By the time we got to the dock after a 5 mile run in 4 ft waves, I was soaked to the bone and shivering. It was starting.
Early signs are subtle. Cold and /or pale hands,feet, ears, nose, or head are signs the body is shunting blood away from the periphery to maintain core heat. This is followed by shivering, increasing to an uncontrollable level. Loss of finger dexterity, and coordination soon follows. As blood is re-directed away from the extrmities muscle control and coordination fails.
Next, as the brain starts to cool, confusion begins, leading eventually to sleepiness and finally unconsciousness. Death isnt far behind.
You or your partner may have start showing signs by slowing your pace, drowsiness, stumbling more often, slurred or difficult speech. Irritability, hallucinations,or loss of perceptual contact with your environment may occur. Decreased shivering and muscle rigidity.
Late signs of a grave condition may include blue skin, dilated pupils, and decreased heart and rspiratory rates.
This is as urgent a medical emergency as a heart attack. With out treatment, death is likely.
Ok, so what to do? Get yourself or your partner out of the elements. Remove wet or froen clothing, keep dry and wrap in blankets or extra clothes. Call for help.
DO NOT POUND OR BEAT ON arms, legs or torso! Rough handling of severe hypothermia patients can trigger a fatal heart arrythmia.
Get the person to a hospital if symptoms are severe.
The problem with hypothermia is, it can cloud your ability to recognize serious symptoms. You tend to tough it out, until all of a sudden you cant stop shivering, you stumble and have trouble speaking. Your dexterity in your hands is failed or failing fast, and you cannot start a fire, or use your keys to start your car.
If you notice early symptoms, get indoors, warm up and prevent getting into serious trouble.Always carry a means to start a fire, or to get warm.