what to use on those bushy tails that will kill them, ace hex just make 'em made???
cheap being the operative word!!!!!
This may be my ignorance but why can't you just use a field point if you are going for cheap?
Mike
Field points just move tissue out of the way--minimal damage.
Critters run off to die a slow death or heal up.
Huh, I just learned something. Thanks Jim!
Mike
Bodkins work great! PM me your address and I will send you a dozen. Don't get much cheaper then that :bigsmyl:
Rusty
There was just another thread on this awhile back. Glue a .38 casing over the end of a wood shaft. Take a hacksaw, and cut a slot approximately 1/4" deep down the middle of the mounted casing. Cut a triangular piece of banding steel and glue this into the slot with plain old hot glue. If you want, you can sharpen the steel a little bit with a dremel tool.
Put a washer or grass catcher behind a field tip or use blunts or judos
Del Ma MA3s seem to work OK....They look like a copy of the old Bodkins. 3 Rivers sell 'em. Other than that I'd say any 2/3 or 4 bladed head, sharp or blunt should stop a skwerl.
I got 100 MA3s earlier this year from the fellow that used to own the company. They are seconds. I cut 1/2" off the pointy end with a dremel and sharpen them. Glue on as normal. they are killing machines. and they don't stick in trees all the time.
Mike
Here is the link to the thread last year
http://tradgang.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=038573
Have to disagree about the Ace Hex Head. Haven't had any squirrel hit with one get mad, just dead.
Wingnutters......mighty nasty if ya put an edge on em.
Don't any of you guys use the "Adder" behind a field point?
I agree with wingnut. Dubbed broadheads will do a number on squirrels.
I use Ace Hex Heads
Take a steel blunt (or field point) and cut a vertical slice in it with a hacksaw about 1/4-3/8" deep. Place a piece of 3/4" wide bandsaw blade in the slot to form a "T" and secure with hot melt glue. File sharpen the forward edge of the blade and you've got a cheap, deadly small game point that won't stick in trees and is easy to reuse. I like hot melt glue since you can reposition/replace the blade by slightly heating with a lighter. I can easily make one of these in a couple of minutes.
This is what Brad was talking about, pic stolen from Jason Wesbrock...
(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-4/998524/Squirrel-Heads.jpg)
Ace hex head here currently, but I've recently replaced those with nutters. I'm eager to see how well they work.
Raptor archery has a box full of old Bheads he sells pretty cheap....that are great for small game.
But he wont for long after this post....so ya best hurry.
Gingi....I've been on more than one rabbit hunt where nutters were used, and nutters are the worst small game head I've ever witnessed. I saw more rabbits run off from nutter hits than any other head by FAR. They should be called 'maimers' instead. I've just seen too many rabbits and squirrels run off not to say something.
I was even in camp once and a guy was frog hunting with nutters and a croaker he shot swam off and sounded with the arrow never to be seen again....a FROG mind you.
So, if you actually like to kill a large percentage of what you hit, stick to the hex or use a Bhead....the hex is the best blunt I've seen in action.
The Hex head is a great small game head, but heck I'm just too cheap to spend that kinda money on something that will be lost in the woods. The areas we hunt grouse in Idaho are steep and thick. You might find half of the arrows you shoot if you spend a lot of time looking.
I gave .60 a piece for the BH seconds and can justify seeing them for one shot if necessary.
I also have seen "nutters" not do the job, so I retired that idea a couple years back.
Mike
I make my own from old Bodkin heads. I snub-off the tip and cut some slots out of the blades. They will kill a squirrel promptly and resist penetrating in tree stumps or getting lost in the duff.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v134/oldearcher46/01060005.jpg)
Snubbed bodkins and Ma3's work great, have had good luck with the ACE's. No luck at all with the wingnuts.
I have a bunch of .38 casings waiting for some band saw material.
Ron
The age old QUEST for the best. For over 30+ years I have had the pleasure of being party to some of the best garage small critter head building there is. Charlie Lam"o" has NO DOUBT tried everything out there at one time or another.
In the 60s We to thought that the "nutter" would be the answer. Didn't take long to find out they "WERE" great on Beer cans and shatterin windshields on old cars(our test medium at the time)at the dump. On small game they SUCKED.
As time went on the search continued. The Magnus Blunt is a product of MR. Lambs quest for the best. That in and of it's self should speak to many of us.
If I can't afford to give my quarry the best humane kill I can, I very well need to reevaluated my inside man.
All the above mentioned with the exception of "the nutter" work well and have been tested true for many many years :bigsmyl: :bigsmyl:
Well dang it all! Thanks for the anti-nutter feedback. That actually helps a good bit. Guess I'll stick to the Ace hex heads after all.
I had to perform a coup de gras on a cottontail last year with one and it entered behind his right ear, went through the skull and into the dirt on the far side. That'll do.
Screw on a wingnut for real cheapo. Will also takeout a rabbit..
Never had any problems with nutters/ wingnutters. Both my son and I used them to skewer cottontails. Hard to imagine them running away considering the damage. I never hit a squirel with one so I can't speak to that. I got full penetration on a squirel with a judo. That squirel didn't go anywhere either. I'd worry more about using broadheads, though if you use screwons you can always add a washer behind the BH as suggessted.
GL,
Aram
I'm neither arguing for or against nutters (though this is the first thread where I've seen them get bad press - heh) but I am curious about something.
For those of you that have had bad experiences with them, what do you think the problem is? Just thinking through it this morning (while waiting for legal shooting time - woot!), it seems to me that assuming your nutter weighs the same as your Ace Hex Head, both arrows ought to fly at roughly the same speed and ought (I would think) to transfer the same number of foot-pounds of energy into the target.
Is the issue that they are less accurate, or that they create more drag (slowing the arrow and reducing the hitting power) or what?
The problem is that animals don't die...and they don't end up in your game bag.
60# bows and a 500 plus grain arrow should kill a rabbit or a quirrel more times than not wouldn't ya think?
Yeah Vance....I remember visiting Charlie and seeing his 'experimental' barrel....lots of arrows and heads from years gone by.
Hex heads do more than just hit, they are shaped different and there is no protruding end from a hex-head like can happen with a nutter. You can save $4 or $5 if you use nutters though (on a half dozen arrows).
I have seen a squirrel take an Excellent hit from a 500+ grain arrow and when he hit the ground he took off running, climbed another tree and UKBowman and I never saw him again. Adam made a beautiful shot on him right in the crease of the shoulder. I use Broadheads ONLY... besides you may see a deer when you are after the squirrels and then you dont have to switch ;) Good Luck with your decision.
just ask Adam aka UK Bowhunter about the tree rat that took his 180 griz and still made it to his hole in the tree. he was talking crazy stuff like the next squirrel will get an arrow tipped with a grenade.
I can't address the effectiveness of the nutter itself as I've never used them. But I have used several styles of oversized blunts like the HTM blunt, Black Diamond Shockers, and washers behind field points. You'll definately lose squirrels with these types of heads.
I'm still looking for the perfect squirrel head, but until I find it the bladed blunt (whether homemade or boughten) is by far the best. With squirrels I think it is important that the arrow stays in the animal. Helps keep'em from getting up a tree and out of reach before they die. And unless you make a direct head shot (in which case type of head is irrelevant) they will have some life in them for a spell.
Broadheads alone generally won't stay in the squirrel, many times will zip through a squirrel without knocking it out of a tree, and even with a solid broadhead hit they can get somewhere quickly where you can't retrieve them. Also very dangerous to be shooting these heads up in trees.
I have had a squirrel take a 600 grain arrow with a blunt from a 50# bow square in the shoulder against a tree and fall to the ground howling about his broken shoulder, didn't even break the skin. I am not sure if the tree backing the squirrel caused the blunt to bounce off him or what but he didn't go far with a broken front shoulder. Most of the time they pass right through and leave a dead squirrel behind...
This one only went 5 yards... :D
(http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f367/Melissa70/IMG_0706.jpg)
Shot with Hope and a Arrow Dynamics with a Muzzy Phantom. It was a complete pass thru but I was in a treestand when I took the shot. Mr Squirrel never knew what happened.
Yeah Tom....for squrrels in trees, I like the hex!..on the ground I liek 3 and 4 blades.
The hex makes a pretty good wound to boot.
That is what Adam had on the end of his arrow and it didnt phase that particular squirrel... LOL
Does anyone alter the hex head in anyway?
I don't alter the Hex blunt but I do keep them sharp. Keep the hollowed out part cleaned out and file sharpen the six sides. Really makes a difference.
QuoteOriginally posted by Tom Mussatto:
I don't alter the Hex blunt but I do keep them sharp. Keep the hollowed out part cleaned out and file sharpen the six sides. Really makes a difference.
Yep!
A small round file I presume? Are you sharpening the inside or the outside edges?
QuoteOriginally posted by BigRonHuntAlot:
A small round file I presume?
No, a 6" mill bastard file, same as I use for broadheads. You can also get one of those little cone shaped grinding stones of proper size that go in a drill, make a small T handle for it, and use to ream out the hollow point and remove the burr inside the edges after you file the outside.
Thanks for the Info. Will have to check some of the Ace Hex heads I have and give it a go. :)
whats so wrong with feild tips? Every time I've shot a bladed blunt, it gets stuck in the tree the squirrel is in, and a blunt with no blade just stuns them for a few seconds. Field tips pin the lil bastards to the tree or ground, making for an easy retrevial.
QuoteOriginally posted by Tom Mussatto:
I don't alter the Hex blunt but I do keep them sharp. Keep the hollowed out part cleaned out and file sharpen the six sides. Really makes a difference.
Bob Mayo told me that a 1/2" drill bit will resharpen the dished face of Hex Heads perfectly. Haven't had occasion to try it myself yet though.
Wow! This thread is covering some serious ground.
I think (if I'm reading things right) that what's really being discussed here is what makes the best all around small game head.
If you're talking every type of "small game" out there then there's only one answer and that's a sharp broadhead.
I'll knock the stuffin out of western red squirrels all day long with HTM rubber blunts and never think twice about it, but their eastern cousins will laugh at your best shot with a rubber blunt.
I've killed a pile of grays squirrels and fox squirrels with regular old steel blunts too, but I've lost a bunch with that head as well.
Some kind of blade is needed on them for "consistent" killing shots.
Midwestern cottontails go down pretty easy to a steel blunt or HTM, but there smaller cousins in south Texas run off with the same arrows from hits in the same places.
Jackrabbits of any discription are from another planet and require a broadhead or bladed blunt... I've killed a pile of those with steel blunts as well.... mostly the big whitetail jacks of Wyoming.
The thing I found that makes a blunt truly effective is it's striking surface. Make is bigger than the shaft for increased shock, dish the face to do the same and make sure the rim is "edged". In other words, the rim shouldn't be rounded or chamfered as that lessons shock and any cutting that might happen.
That is the main downfall of the steel nut used by some hunters... they are generally rounded so shock is lessened and little if any cutting happens.
Not to mention that they tear up softwood shafts pretty easilly when hitting hard stuff like oak trees and get knocked out of alignment as well.
As Vance mentioned I did invent the Magnus Blunt and am proud of it as a small game killer, but never intended for it to cost as much as it does. That pretty much puts it out of the picture for serious squirrels shooting.... it's fairly complicated to manufacture, hence the cost.
I'd love to see the Ace Hex blunt made in a slightly larger version as it has a lot going for it, but still not quite what it takes as an all around small game head.
For the most part as bowhunters, we must play a mix and match game for the quarry we pursue. If you've got the bucks or a line on a cheap supply of 3 blade broadheads you may just have the best all around small game head going.
Like Tom said above, you sure don't want broadheads spinning back to earth after glancing off a limb overhead, so they ain't perfect either.
I don't think anyone should use field points on any type of warm blooded prey. They have NO killing traits and it just ain't right to go after something hoping only to pin it to the tree or ground until you can kill it by some other means.
bringing this thread to the top now that many of us are done with deer and are taking up small game hunting. good info in this thread.
(http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d124/NorthShoreLB/hunt/013_13.jpg)
Field points are just the right hardness to take a pair of needle nose pliers grab the rim of the point about 1/8 " deep and "bend" downwards. The metal will fold down leaving a 1/8" x 1/8" wing. Do this on the four sides (ie: every 90 degrees). What you end up with is a neat little small game head and a cheap one at that. I think John Nail does the same thing except he saws the kerfs and then bends them down. And he has killed a boat load of squirrels the past few years.
I can try to post a pic of what I just said if anyone wants.
Here you go
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v85/Flinttim/Bows%20and%20stuff/Mvc-001f.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v85/Flinttim/Bows%20and%20stuff/Mvc-003f-2.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v85/Flinttim/Bows%20and%20stuff/Mvc-004f.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v85/Flinttim/Bows%20and%20stuff/Mvc-005f.jpg)
Excellent thread guys.
I switched to "banded shell casings" after I knocked a fox squirrel out of a tree with a blunt and had him give me a "is that all you've got" look as he vacated the area. Hit was in the rib cage and I swear I heard ribs breaking with the hit. I felt really bad about that one. He climbed back into the same tree and then jumped into another one and left the area before I could get another hit. Lost two arrows chasing him.
Haven't connected with one of the new arrows yet, but feel pretty confident about them, especially since I had to dig one out of a cedar after a close miss. Rocked the whole tree, and penetrated to the shell casing (more than half an inch).
Flinttim, those look good also. I may have to try some of them.
what do bodkins look like?, how efective are they?, thinking about buying some
Hex heads aren't cheap, but I agree, they work better than Judo...heck, I've hit rabbits that ran off and down a hole with a judo hit. Broke a squirrel's shoulder and he ran off onto posted property w/ a judo! Never again...