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Main Boards => PowWow => Topic started by: PennDude on January 11, 2016, 08:51:00 PM

Title: Disdain for the recurve
Post by: PennDude on January 11, 2016, 08:51:00 PM
I'm reading Howard Hill's Hunting the Hard way and really enjoying it so far.  I don't know much about the man but so far I've picked up that he really had no love for recurve bows.  I haven't shot too many different bows but I've found that my Grizzly and Montana shoot pretty equally in terms of my ability to shoot them accurately.  Why did Hill have such a strong distaste for recurves or short bows?
Title: Re: Disdain for the recurve
Post by: Car54 on January 11, 2016, 08:58:00 PM
If I shot a longbow like him,  I don't think I would shoot a curve either...lol.  Sorry, don't know why.
Title: Re: Disdain for the recurve
Post by: Possumjon on January 11, 2016, 09:04:00 PM
I think something to do with it may be because of the materials of his day plus he was a big guy, maybe draw length issues?
Title: Re: Disdain for the recurve
Post by: Bobaru on January 11, 2016, 09:08:00 PM
I probably shouldn't post on this.  Others have better insight.  I've read all that but simply can't remember the particulars.

Anyway, don't compare a modern recurve with the Hill ear recurve - it's apples and oranges.  

That said, wait for some knowledgeable folks to post up on the subject.  

Hope that helps some.
Title: Re: Disdain for the recurve
Post by: Horserod on January 11, 2016, 09:17:00 PM
It wasn't because he couldn't shoot the recurve. I believe it had to do with the lack of stability and his style of shooting. There certainly are others on here that have more knowledge about Howard and his shooting abilities. Hopefully, they will chime in and set us straight......Horserod
Title: Re: Disdain for the recurve
Post by: on January 11, 2016, 09:17:00 PM
I don't know about Howard Hill, But I hate recurves for 2 reasons:

1. Longbows go "thud" and recurves go "twang". I like the thud of a longbow better!

2. You really should use a stringer with a recurve, and I hate stringers!!!

Bisch
Title: Re: Disdain for the recurve
Post by: Pointer on January 11, 2016, 09:19:00 PM
I read something in Robert Hardy's book about that. He wrote that Hill said recurves were too sensitive for him. If I remember it correctly, he just found longbows to be more forgiving of his errors. I don't know how Hardy came across that information but I'm pretty sure that was in the section that covered Hill and his bows.
Title: Re: Disdain for the recurve
Post by: bucknut on January 11, 2016, 09:28:00 PM
What I got out of reading his books and watching his videos was he didn't get the forgiveness in hunting situations with the recurve that he got with the longbow.  "they were fine for targets not for the woods."
Title: Re: Disdain for the recurve
Post by: M60gunner on January 11, 2016, 09:39:00 PM
Mr. Hill makes mention of this in his book "Hunting the Hard Way". Basically what bucknut wrote.
Title: Re: Disdain for the recurve
Post by: ChuckC on January 11, 2016, 10:47:00 PM
I am guessing because he sold his skill with the longbow, and incidentally he sold longbows too.  

Reading what some said in interviews, Hill shot recurves very well, when he shot them, then he complained that he wasn't good enough.

ChuckC
Title: Re: Disdain for the recurve
Post by: McDave on January 12, 2016, 12:03:00 AM
I'm sure Howard both made and shot longbows because they worked best for him.  

I've been fortunate enough to have met and had classes from some of the more successful and well known archery instructors teaching today.  Back in my golf days, I had lessons from my share of well known teaching professionals.  Most, but not all of them, are very adamant about their own particular methods, as different as they are from each other.  As a CPA, I have met some very successful businessmen, and most of them have been very adamant about their methods too.  It seems to be a common trait among successful people from many different disciplines that when they find a formula that works for them, they cling to it.  And if they're very successful, it's hard to argue with that.  I've wondered at times why they won't be more openminded about things, because they're not stupid and must know there are other ways that work, but I guess they look at life as having thousands of ways to fail, and they were fortunate enough to stumble across one way that works, and they're not about to let loose of that.

I suspect Howard had a little of that in his personality.  Just my guess, of course.
Title: Re: Disdain for the recurve
Post by: Bud B. on January 12, 2016, 07:51:00 AM
How ironic a recurve is carved into Mr. Hill's tombstone.
Title: Re: Disdain for the recurve
Post by: Bill Carlsen on January 12, 2016, 09:58:00 AM
For a while he actually made and sold recurves under his name. I grew up reading him and trying to copy his style of shooting. As time has gone on bow materials, designs and arrow materials have changed for the better. Shooting technique has also evolved into numerous different styles. I am sure that many of today's longbows are much better performers than were Hill's longbows. I can remember reading about how excited he was when he added fiberglass to one of his bows claiming it added more "cast" to his arrows. Both recurves and longbows have evolved since his heyday and I bet he would still be critical of some the bows today that we all see as classics of our time.
Title: Re: Disdain for the recurve
Post by: JR Williams on January 12, 2016, 10:01:00 AM
I think part of it was that he sold longbows. He may not have liked recurves but I bet he shot them pretty well when he did shoot them......just a guess.
Title: Re: Disdain for the recurve
Post by: Jakeemt on January 12, 2016, 01:37:00 PM
You also have to remember that the recurves a hill was talking about were very different from the modern recurves today. They were basically recurved long bows. No pistol grips or heavy risers. Rather straight grips, super light weight, self bows or just with a bamboo backing. A bow like that would be very finicky indeed so it's understandable why he never cared for them.
Title: Re: Disdain for the recurve
Post by: PEARL DRUMS on January 12, 2016, 01:52:00 PM
Jake those bows you mentioned are not finicky at all. Howard was simply making money on long bows.
Title: Re: Disdain for the recurve
Post by: Jakeemt on January 12, 2016, 04:06:00 PM
Lol finicky for me since I can't shoot them worth a darn!!   :biglaugh:
Title: Re: Disdain for the recurve
Post by: Bowwild on January 12, 2016, 06:04:00 PM
I have nothing constructive to add here.

It is very rare I will even open a longbow thread. I was curious about this one though.  

I have the opposite bias and mine is entirely aesthetic, because both launch broadhead-tipped arrows.
Title: Re: Disdain for the recurve
Post by: Sam McMichael on January 12, 2016, 08:16:00 PM
I always got the impression that Hill did not feel disdain for the recurve. Rather, the longbow suited his shooting style better, making him more proficient with it; consequently, that is what he chose to shoot and to sell.

I have no rational reason why I prefer the longbow. I just like it better. I haven't shot the recurve much in a very long time, so I don't really know if I can be accurate with it or not.
Title: Re: Disdain for the recurve
Post by: Stumpkiller on January 12, 2016, 10:29:00 PM
QuoteOriginally posted by Bisch:
I don't know about Howard Hill, But I hate recurves for 2 reasons:

1. Longbows go "thud" and recurves go "twang". I like the thud of a longbow better!

2. You really should use a stringer with a recurve, and I hate stringers!!!

My hunting recurves go "thut".  With a "proper" 600 to 620 gr Douglas fir arrow.  The noise of the arrow hitting the deer's chest is louder.

But a stringer is a very good idea if you unstring.  Though for MANY years I just did a step-through.  My daily shooting & hunting recurve has been strung a few years and I walk out the back door to hunt and stump shoot.


Perhaps if Hill had the jigs to make resurves he'd have caught on.  But as he sold longbows . . .
Title: Re: Disdain for the recurve
Post by: Sirius Black on January 13, 2016, 02:32:00 PM
I agree with Bisch!
Title: Re: Disdain for the recurve
Post by: ChristopherO on January 13, 2016, 02:59:00 PM
 (http://i608.photobucket.com/albums/tt167/WoodenBows/1953%20Bear%20Glass%20Powered%20Grizzly/UnbracedSideProfile_zps4321fbec.jpg) (http://s608.photobucket.com/user/WoodenBows/media/1953%20Bear%20Glass%20Powered%20Grizzly/UnbracedSideProfile_zps4321fbec.jpg.html)

This is what a recurve looked like back in Howard's prime.  I enjoy this vintage look but I'm not the archer Mr. Hill was by any measure.  It could be that someone with his abilities can tell the difference instantly compared to a Hill Longbow once it is in their hand.  

 (http://i608.photobucket.com/albums/tt167/WoodenBows/PartialDraw.jpg) (http://s608.photobucket.com/user/WoodenBows/media/PartialDraw.jpg.html)

This picture is one I made as a sinew backed recure some years back for my son.  It is nearly identical in style to the Fred Bear bow above.  Certainly not like the sleek looking fiberglass laminated bows we consider traditional today and since the 60's.

The rest of us mere mortals, at the stunted yardage we normally shoot, I suspect this old Bear can shoot right along side of an old Hill bow.  We need to take into consideration that Howard had a knack of hitting targets and killing game at distances many rifle hunters can't duplicate.  
Fred Bear perfected the recurve whilst Howard immortalized the Longbow.  They were both great archers, entrepreneurs and marketers.  And we love the acclaim the both brought to this wonderful sport.
Title: Re: Disdain for the recurve
Post by: Dan Jones on January 14, 2016, 07:52:00 PM
Didn't Hill famously say (where in print I don't know) that he wasn't "skilled enough" to shoot a short recurve bow accurately? I assume that the disdain for the alleged instability/sensitivity of a recurve which John Schulz expresses in his book reflected the influence of his mentor Howard Hill.
Title: Re: Disdain for the recurve
Post by: Terry Lightle on January 14, 2016, 08:46:00 PM
What Bisch said!
Title: Re: Disdain for the recurve
Post by: MikeNova on January 15, 2016, 01:03:00 AM
I have a howard hill 1965 catalog which is available through Cornell press . There are 9 different models of recurves in it but only one longbow ! A couple of those are kids bows. I have heard from someone that knew howard that when they first came out he took a negative stance on them because he could not make them and hence couldn't sell them . Obviously by 65 things changed.