I have often wondered how these two natural insulators stacked up to provide comfortable warmth in cold weather. I use both extensively during our second season and for me, the nod goes to down. When I wear my down vest under my down jacket topped by my camo shell, I remain toasty warm for long periods of time while in my treestand. I love my wool but again my nod goes to down.
Sitting/standing still down is by far warmer. Stalking/walking and wool is the choice as it breathes. I do love my wool for how quiet it is but it is not as warm as down.
I don't have any down, but I love the wool I have.
Of course, it does not get real cold here usually, and I am wearing wool when it is in the 50's!!
Bisch
Wool still insulates when wet, down loses its jnsulating properties when wet. For a stalking/mobile hunter, wool is better for me. For a stand hunter, down might be better but a bit bulky than wool.
What Gil said is right on - down looses much of its insulation capacity when wet. I also find its bulk a little tough to deal with at times. But it does a great job of keeping you warm.
I find that the innermost and outermost layers are key. If I have good warm material right next to my skin and a good, windproof outer layer, I am good in pretty cool temps. Stuff a third layer of wool, down or synthetic in between and Im good in the down right cold.
Much worse than that, and its time to hunt from a blind.
For rifle hunting on stand I do wool long underwear and waterproof duck hunting shell to walk to the stand with the other stuff in a pack. Then on stand I put on heavy wool shirt and a light down coat and then my shell again. It's a proven combo in all kinds of weather. And I've NEVER gotten my down coat wet in 30 years of wearing this combination in all kinds of bad weather both deer and duck hunting.
Down packs well and is light, but doesnt carry the toughness of wool to me. both are great and warm but I love the wool.
Two downsides regarding down. It loses ability to insulate when wet. Also, it is usually used in conjunction with some sort of synthetic material such as nylon, which makes it noisy. Therefore, I recommend wool for those who don't have allergies.
If you don't hunt where it really gets cold wool works just fine.
Down will win every time. Till it gets wet or gets compacted. Each have their shining points.
CHuckC
Both have their advantages and disadvantages. ..
So, one is not better than the other on all occasions. Like there is no one tire tread that works best on all the different terrains.
That's why I utilize both....as we'll as polar fleece.
QuoteOriginally posted by Bisch:
I don't have any down, but I love the wool I have.
Of course, it does not get real cold here usually, and I am wearing wool when it is in the 50's!!
Bisch
Hmmmm... At 50 and above I wear short sleeves. :)
My all time favorite is a shell of the newer wind blocking fleece, then a wool base layer and middle for really cold temps. Here in MO though wool will cover most of what I need done. I have not played much with down but, a vest sounds like a pretty good add on for those really cold days. Like everyone else says the key is a layering system that can be added or removed as needed and a variety of materials seem to fit that bill.
Another thumbs down on down. It usually comes inside something noisy - like Nylon. Wool is always quiet.
Try a shearling vest under wool. Snuggly warm.
I prefer wool. I can always layer under it in extreme cold...I'll use a gold wind/rain suit over my thermals and under the wool which is already lined to block wind. I've stayed warm in some cold nasty wet weather while wearing wool. I don't know how you would stay warm in down once you get wet
I get cold easily. I wear silk as bottom layer then multiple layers of wool depending on how cold AND even put in the little heater packs. I always stayed away from down because of noisy cloth that they are usually made of. However, this year I fell over a down "sweater" in TJ Max for better than 1/2 price and wore it over and under wool. It was warmer than last year and frankly no obvious noise when under wool. If it ever gets cold here I plan to wear it again. I think that it is usually pretty easy to know when rain is coming on most of my hunting days. That said, if it was pivotal to my staying warm and I hunted where weather was unpredictable and away from home, I am sure that I would use something else. In Eastern Pa it is not much of a concern, as the house or the car aren't all that far away.
I agree with what's been said about the pro's and con's of each but I only wear wool, being that we get over 40" of rain here a year.
I can't risk the down getting wet, no worries with wool if it get's wet. You still stay warm with wet wool, to a degree.
I agree thou, if "wet" is not a concern and just sitting for a long while, down, I suspect is warmer.
So for me, wool is the year round winner as it takes everything you can throw at it, while down can't...
I have been increasingly leaning toward wool as my favorite hunting clothing, after a brief affair with synthetics. I think the ideal is a windproof layer and good, heavy wool, like KOM or SI or GWW. We haven't had a really cold winter this year, but I was able, on the coldest days (maybe 20 degrees +/- at dawn, windy)to get away with my KOM bibs over fleece longjohns and top, and a wool hoody lined with windproof material over a wool vest. Cozy, not bulky. My only other preference, for mid season, is Berber fleece from Cabelas. Down is light and warm, but useless when wet, and it's ALWAYS wet out there, one way or another.....
QuoteOriginally posted by Stumpkiller:
Another thumbs down on down. It usually comes inside something noisy - like Nylon.
Yep.
Most wool is not fulled and thus does not have the wind resistance it can have when properly processed. Fabric that is processed like that is called mountain loden. In comparison to for example jackets/anoraks made from blanket style wool, it is much more waterproof and windproof and thus warmer, but not bulkier. It is also not cheap, as the additional processing must be done and should be done by trained personnel to get a good product. More info:
http://www.mehler-tuchfabrik.de/en/production/finishing/
Wool or a mix of wool like Wooltimate for me. Down is great but don't get wet. If you do you're in trouble.
I have an old US made woolrich jacket with a shearling liner and its hard to beat that coat and so far I've had it out in -14 below,,,, I wore merino base layers and a polartec fleece flannel type shirt under it and with my body heat it was like a battery heated jacket its was very warm.
my point,,, I think wool is great in super cold weather but you need to think about the coat fitting loose enough and having the right liner under it and for me I always opt for a fleece shirt over my wool base layer in a stand where I'm not moving much,, if I'm on a hike I go with all wool.
agree 100% about down always being too loud.
When I was doing a lot coyote hunting I really liked a down vest under a wool jacket. The wool really cut down on any noise the vest might have made. It kept the body core warm but wasn't bulky on the arms.
When it is very cold and one is not going to do a lot of hiking down may be warmer, but work up a sweat and then sit, down will be a problem. With will although one may feel a draft, the chances of sweating up your under layers will be less. Now if sweating is your thing pack up with down over cotton long johns, but don't don't stop moving until you reach warmth. One fellow here wears a down jacket, but he hikes the better than half mile to his stand wearing nothing but wool long johns and a wool shirt on top, no matter how cold it is, just to be not sweating when he reaches his tree stand. It has to be well below freezing for him to break out the down.
I wear both depending on the hunt and exertion levels. I really enjoy bowhunting in the late season here in Michigan so I spend a great deal of time on stand. When temps dip to zero and below I will start with a layer of wool LJ's, Ulfrotte top and bottom over that followed my my Kuiu Superdown. If it's breezy I will add my sitka kelvin pants over the Kuiu Superdowns. Last layer is my KOM Hillbilly bibs.
This set up has kept me on stand the last 5 years or so where I would normally hang it up!
I wear a down vest under my Wool Jacket and feel nice and Toasty in that set up.
Wool for walking down for sitting. That combo has always worked for me.
Down when it's cold out, actually when it's cold enough for down you don't have to worry about getting it wet. A full day of sweating won't dampen down enough to fully destroy its abilities. If it's rainin out put your down away or put a rain coat over it to keep it dry. My daypack always has a down vest in a little tiny stuff sack, it weighs next to nothing and doesn't take much room. If you put a down layer under a quiet over layer the usual nylon shell isn't as noisy.
Wool stays warm even when it's wet but if you ever get it totally wet (soaking) it weighs a ton and is almost impossible to dry overnight in a camp situation. The one possibility is a wall tent with a woodstove but even then it takes a lot. In that situation down would totally let you down :) as it's very difficult to dry without a tumble dryer. There is a new fangled down that's waterproofed now, I'm not sure How well it works though.
Fleece, holds odours in my experience, some of it is quite noisy especially the wind proof stuff but, it's easy to dry and can be wrung out and worn.
So like others have said a combination of the three in different layers works well. It's a huge mistake to simply discount any of these because of one drawback.
Don't forget about fur though, in cold dry circumstances it's the king of warmth and quiet.
I'm a wool guy. Down is loud or is packaged loud. I hunt in the cold with mostly wool and fleece but here we have the luxury of being used to the cold. I've hunted with some southern boys in the mountains of Wyoming and I'm glad I packed a lot. I lent most if it out to them. I think they are converts to wool now too.
Wool next to skin (First-Lite)
Down mid layer (check out Kuiu's new Super Down series)
I like both, but have begun to prefer wool. In Alaska in 2013, I was on a 13-day float-down-a-wild-river trad bowhunt, and fell in a river while hunting, and was soaked to my shoulders. I was about a mile from camp and was really worried about the situation, as it was windy and about 25°. I started high-tailing it back to camp, but I needn't have been concerned. My wool pants, top and jacket were pretty heavy, but bearable, but I was completely warmed-up in the wet wool within minutes. Really made an impression on me.