Hey guys
So I finally convinced my father to put away his wheelie bow and go back to his recurve he got some 40+ years ago.
Problem,!his old bow is a 45# grizzly (great bow, I know) he's and ex-powerlifter who's had 4 shoulder surgeries (2 on each side) and is CONVINCED he needs more bow (hunting 40 years with a wheelie bow will do that to a guy) I know as many of you do if he gets a heavier bow he will probably end up hurting him self and take away the enjoyment of traditional archery.
What I need from you guys: I've done many searches and can't find those threads about using bows under 50# and what not. So if you know the links please post them here or any thread links that pertain to this subject. Also feel free to post any low poundage success stories you have, what you use ect.
I'll share what you guys give me with him in an attempt to guide him in the right direction. Also when this thread goes stagnant I'll change the name to something more fitting so someone down the road might find all this info easier
Thanks!!!
This link (http://tradgang.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=112539;p=1) is labeled as "40# to 45# kills.
Whenever I hear about someone being concerned about using a traditional bow and the draw weight necessary to kill big game, the thought that comes to my mind is "walk down there 30 yards and stand there while I shoot at you".
Not the thing that you really want to do to your father (or any other person) but, it would seem to get the point across.
A good sized whitetail deer will weigh about what one of us weighs. If we're not willing to stand there and take an arrow, we shouldn't be worried about most big game in North America. Certainly a moose or elk or a big bear will weigh more but the point is the same. I'll bet you can find plenty of elk / moose / bear killed with "low" poundage bows.
Hope this helps
homebru
Tell your Dad that states set a minimum poundage for bows to hunt with. This is what there research shows as a minimum ethical bow hunting poundage. I believe several states are as low as 35 lbs. 45 lbs. bows have killed thousands of game animals with no issue. It's about arrow placement not poundage and there is a chance if your over bowed you may not be as accurate or as consistent of a shot.
I love bows from 45 to 49 and don't buy into more pounds the better. But, I am hunting deer and 3D targets not moose or buffalo.
47@28 drawn to 29 with 225 total point weight and over 510 total arrow weight hits with a Wack!
Pretty cool your Dad is going back to Trad!!!
I wish your father was near me here in KY. Heck, he and I may even be near the same age.
I think a lot of us guys, especially old school have this concern of enough poundage. I had it for years with bows, firearms, vehicles, bass boats, etc. I guess it is a deep down, always wanting more and better thing.
I just had Mike Mecredy build a Maddog Prairie Predator for me and had to "MAKE" myself order a lower poundage bow because, much like your father, my subconscious wanted to order higher poundage.
BUT......I held my nose, closed my eys, and had Mike build the bow in #41 at 28" and I draw about 27"-27.5".
If your father could shoot this bow and see what a "Thwack" the arrows have a 20 yards, he would have zero concerns about the killing ability of a bow in this poundage range.
Please feel free to have him contact me personally if I may help in any way. He and I can discuss archery "AND" shoulder issues. :)
I just made a 24" long osage self bow. It draws 11# @ 11". For arrows I used 12" bamboo skewers with a 25 grain 5/16" square nut screwed on the tip for weight and a stopper. At 5 yards it blew through a double wall cardboard box, a square hole to match the nut tip......11# @ 11". That about sums it up.
Homebru sent a wonderful link look at the first kill on the last page :bigsmyl:
Have him set up his favorite target bag and shoot a razor sharp broadhead at it. He might develop a little more respect for the "soft shooters".
Thanks you guys for the replying thus far Homebru thanks for the link...
as you can see I changed the name and might do a couple more times to see if I can get any more responses
After growing comfortable with a compound I think most people struggle with the low speed they're getting from traditional bows when they switch. I know I did, 45 is plenty though.
Don't say anything. Let a grown man think for himself.
QuoteOriginally posted by BWallace10327:
Don't say anything. Let a grown man think for himself.
Agree!!
give him as much info as he'll let you then back off and let him have at it.
QuoteOriginally posted by Homebru:
This link (http://tradgang.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=112539;p=1) is labeled as "40# to 45# kills.
Whenever I hear about someone being concerned about using a traditional bow and the draw weight necessary to kill big game, the thought that comes to my mind is "walk down there 30 yards and stand there while I shoot at you".
Not the thing that you really want to do to your father (or any other person) but, it would seem to get the point across.
A good sized whitetail deer will weigh about what one of us weighs. If we're not willing to stand there and take an arrow, we shouldn't be worried about most big game in North America. Certainly a moose or elk or a big bear will weigh more but the point is the same. I'll bet you can find plenty of elk / moose / bear killed with "low" poundage bows.
Hope this helps
homebru
That's a pretty funny and great response. I think I'll have to use that in the future!
QuoteOriginally posted by BWallace10327:
Don't say anything. Let a grown man think for himself.
I'm pretty much in agreement with this^^^. If you talk him into doing something he does not want to, the first time something goes wrong, he is going to blame it on the low poundage, even though we all know that most all the time it is due to some other factor!!!
Bisch
QuoteOriginally posted by BWallace10327:
Don't say anything. Let a grown man think for himself.
x 3
Dangit, x 4
X5 - Agreed 1000%.
last season a good friend in NM Put down a nice bull elk from 25 yards with a 39# Ghost Maker long bow made by Bill Vanbuskirk of Farmington NM. The first arrow went high and took the bull in the spine, which downed the bull in its tracks. She then promptly walked up and put another in the chest for good measure.
I started to truely enjoy traditional archery again when I put away the 75 lb bow I bought when I was 22 (1980) and dropped to 60 lbs. Even that is getting to be a pinch much but I hunt mostly elk and really like a heavy arrow.
I actually just switched from heavy poundage bow recently. New bow is not in yet but I bit the bullet and lowered down to 45 pounds we shall see how I like it. Maybe the answer is to point him towards a take down bow so he can go down if necessary without having to buy another bow.
It was a weight lifting injury that forced me to shoot less poundage. When I shot a deer with less weight than would have ever suggested for anyone else, I changed my mind a bit. When my arm got better, I dropped down to my mid 60s bows as my main bows. My draw is rather short, 27" with recurves and less with longbows. Not all shoulder injuries affect drawing a bow the same and even then different drawing styles can have different effects to the shoulders. He can always change his mind if a heavier bow starts to show a problem.
QuoteOriginally posted by BWallace10327:
Don't say anything. Let a grown man think for himself.
As much as I would like to give you the magic answer, I have to agree here. I will say however, if you get him out shooting around other trad guys, he may be able to shorten his learning curve and settle into something that works for him quicker.
I think the rough rule of thumb saying 75% of the compound draw weight is a place to start with recurves (or LB).
Draw weight that promotes poor form is too much. Of course same goes for draw weights that cause pain.
I have little to no regard for the minimums established by government. Those rules are generally in place because of the influence of less than a handful of people who think they no best, often with zero objective empirical data. Of course if a minimum does exist one must adhere too it as the first on a list of ethical decisions.
One of my earliest posts on this site years ago dealt with this. Bowhunters want to be successful within their self-imposed limitations. They will rightly do as this poster is doing, seek experienced advice and try to sort through the contradictions.
Experience will be the final teacher.
Of course if the fellow is asking your advice, then that's part of his adult decision making process, and a good one to seek advice from someone whose opinion he respects. You might simply share one of the better threads on this subject with the fellow and let him read, digest, and decide for himself. Of course if you have experiences you can share those are best of all.
One can kill, wound, or miss with about any draw weight capable of launching a sharp broadhead. I currently personally favor 43-49 pounds for anything I hunt.
Killed a mature bull moose with a 49@28 longbow,got a touch over 28 inches but it got the job done.That being said I prefer 57#,was having a little elbow problems at the time that had nothing to do with shooting a bow.
Terry
Keeping in mind that confidence in your equipment is a large part of archery, i'd have to say if the man feels the need for more poundage, and he can comfortably draw and shoot a heavier bow, why talk him out of it? If injury is a concern, he'll figure it out himself.....
My recommendation would be start out with a lighter bow for 3D to get his form down with the idea of hunting with a heavier one once the season nears. I do this every year. i shoot 46-47# till mid summer and then start shooting my 55# elk hunting bow.....
The key to doing this is setting up both bows with the right arrow weights that have the same speed & trajectory....
I have had problems in the past with shoulder injuries (not caused by bow shooting) that required a lot of painful therapy and less draw weight in my bows after I could shoot again. Now that the shoulder issues are better I want to protect my shoulders so I can keep shooting as long as possible--I'm 72. :eek: I don't see a thing in the world wrong with the poster being concerned about his dad's shoulder issues and wanting to give him some informed guidance to try and prevent problems from developing. Certainly a grown man can and will make his own call on this, but I think this son's concern is totally appropriate.
I have been nursing an un-repaired rotator cuff injury in for 15 years. One of the things I do in that regard is alternate between right and left handed shooting to give both sides a workout and a longer rest between workouts. The other thing I do is shoot bows of various weights, and this latter exercise has 1) improved my form and 2) given me a much greater appreciation for how a well-matched and tuned lighter bow and arrow combination gets an arrow downrange plenty fast enough and noticeably more accurately from LOOONG ranges, which is something I have learned to really appreciate and enjoy after 50 years of bowhunting at close ranges.
As a young guy, I scoffed at the guys with bows taller than they were shooting arrows that were no bigger around than knitting needles while I shot my hunting bow and heavy fiberglass and wood arrows. For me, the willingness to try lighter tackle has significantly enhanced the joy and satisfaction I get out of traditional archery at the same time I am preserving my body for a longer life of archery.
Greg:
Congrats on talking your father into hunting with a recurve!!
When I was getting ready for Africa, I was "wierded" out on the issue for a while. Your jumpmaster set me straight by telling me whitetails have been killed with a 15# bow (not that we should use that). Secondly, American Indians regularily used very inefficient 40# self bows in North America for eons - with great success.
Plus, of course, the links you are seeing here. I mean, there are folks killing moose and elk with 45# bows, although I wouldn't go that light.
There's a reason your father has a 45# Bear Griz - the same reason it was my first bow: it works on whitetail. 'nuf said!!
Congrats again! And, tell your father to shoot straighter than me - it'll be more effective for him.
Another reason he may have a 45# bow is that weight--from 42-45# was probably the most common hunting weight back when he got that bow.
Why do so many people worry about what others are shooting? I wonder what Howard Hill or Fred Bear would have told people that said that they needed to shoot less weight? I think the smaller joints are much more likely to be damaged from shooting the heavier stuff. Like the joints of the fingers. Not alot of good data to show that shooting heavier bows does anything to the shoulders more than everyday wear and tear does.
I agree with those who say give him information, but let him make his own decision.
On the shoulder thing. In December of 2009 and again in December of 2014 I hurt my bow arm shoulder. There were two things common to both occurrences:
1. I was moving very heavy lumber or furniture the day before.
2. I was shooting a bow about 10 pounds heavier than I'm used to.
Both injuries took months -- 8 and 10 months to heal enough I could shoot as much as I wanted to again.
Now, I'm blaming both these incidents on the heavy lifting not on the bows...but, I'm a lot more careful about drawing heavier than I'm accustomed to. My joints are nearly 62 years old but thankfully my brain and heart are only half that number!
Don't try convincing him. It will just make him want to prove you wrong if he is anything like me.
I shot 40-50 for years beginning in traditional archery. I'm now shooting 65-85 regularly. 75 being my favorite weight. I still have a 50lb bow, but I rarely use it. I use it for form work on my release. I have the hardest time getting a clean release with anything under 60. So, as odd as it may sound; for me I think heavier helps me with proper form vs a lighter bow. And yes, I can draw and hold my heavier bow, and no I'm not a snap shooter.
I have 19 years of military service under my belt so far; so maybe daily push ups contributed to healthy shoulders.
Gee Wiz maybe the guy just wants an excuse to buy a new bow :dunno:
QuoteOriginally posted by Mr. fingers:
Gee Wiz maybe the guy just wants an excuse to buy a new bow :dunno:
Good point, lol. While he is at it, he can get a lighter one too.
Some folks get something in their mind and that is it. If he is over bowed his poor shooting may tell him to get a lower poundage bow.
I shoot a 40# bow and my wife shoots and 32# bow and we have both killed deer with them.
Minimum draw weight reg's for Wisconsin is 30#.
The assumption that an older person with shoulder issues cannot shoot a considerable amount of draw weight without injury is just that, an assumption...I am 64 years old, have a bit of a history of shoulder problems, and I can shoot 65 pounds of draw weight both right and left handed right now...I would have no issue at all hunting moose with my Kodiak Deluxe that I shoot at a measured 46 pounds...what a bowhunter chooses to use is their business as long as it meets the local regulations
DDave
Two old sayings come to mind:
1. "The man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still." and
2. "Even a prophet is not without honor, except in his own home!" :rolleyes:
QuoteOriginally posted by Kopper1013:
Hey guys
So I finally convinced my father to put away his wheelie bow and go back to his recurve he got some 40+ years ago.
You "convinced" him to go back to trad. Some might say you are obligated to at least attempt to convince him of an appropriate draw weight for a beginner on trad gear
Why should we convince someone to go trad but stop there?
"He has a perfectly good bow, (a 45# Grizzly)"
Maybe he wants a NEW bow????? (Who doesn't want a new bow???)
Do not try to talk him into it ,let him figure things out for himself. He may surprise you.
I switched from a 50 pound Toelke whip this year to a 42 pound Toelke whip. My new bow has the high speed limbs and really zips an arrow. I had a great pass through and quick recovery on a big doe this year with this bow and very sharp grizzly broadhead. This bow has allowed me to take my form to new levels and I can shoot many more arrows without getting sore. For me this was a great move!
QuoteOriginally posted by Kingstaken:
X5 - Agreed 1000%.
X6
I had a tough time convincing a fella to drop in poundage. Neck problems...shoulder problems and the dummy still wanted to shoot too many pounds. The dummy was me. after two and a half years at 47 lbs and 38 critters...I`m finally a believer.RC
LOL. RC, it doesn't matter what you use. They know it is you, and just drop over dead to get it over with.