G. Fred Asbell..bending knees..Why?

[Bible5]

Just got through his video and he talks about bending at the knees. Does anyone do this ?  and if so why does it help?  I don't understand his point.  

[Reiver]

A lot of people really like him, but I always found it difficult to shoot in the exact manner he described. I felt awkward and off-balance. I do bend my knees, but it's more situational and my body doesn't lean forward at the waist like his does while doing so. His shooting form just doesn't feel right for me.

[Scott Gray]

I find that bending at the knees steadies the lower body. Bend at the knees, slightly at the waist and it makes it easy to keep  my head down or closer to the arrow.

Scott

[Terry Green]

That's the way HE shoots, its part of his shot. If it don't work for you, just leave it on the table. I bend only if I need to, i.e. limb clearance, hiding and such.

Just as with watching, listening, or learning from any shooter...some things may work for you, and other may not.  Gotta come up with what works for you.

[HARL]

Tried bending at the knees when I shot ,but it made me pass gas when I drew the bow!!!!!!!!

[Dan Worden]

I see his point about it increasing focus, but just can't do it myself.

Beyond the squat though I do shoot Asbell style. Sometimes for the better, sometimes.....

[Bible5]

Yes Harl I see your point...passing gas at the moment of truth might just spook the deer AS THEY GOT WIND OF YOU!!  ha ha

[Ray Lyon]

As mentioned above, it's to increase the mental focus. I think in his book or video, he cites a study by law enforcement officers on the pistol range improving their scores by bending at the knees.

As Terry mentions above, if it doesn't work for you, you don't need to try and incorporate into your shot. Everyone shoots differently and just like the old saying in the restaurant industry about there's no such thing as an original recipe, so is it for shooting style and method. Garner tidbits from everywhere and try them, if it helps, keep it, if not discard it and move on.

I'd consider consistent hand placement on the bow, consistent draw length, consistent anchor and release as the gospel items. Beyond that, it's up to you to play around with what works for you.

[Dan Adair]

Being both a competitive pistol shooter (IDPA and IPSC limited) and a martial artist, I can't shoot a bow without bending slightly at the knees.  Most people wouldn't even notice that I do it, thats how sleight.  Its just enough to help me feel really rooted to the earth.

Don't even get me started on breathing  

[Rod Parsons]

Leaning forward works for me shooting instinctive, but it ain't compulsory. I see it as a kind of physical focus, like a gun dog pointing.
The sitting thing is interesting. I hear you about breaking wind, but this is not the time or place to go into that.
Interestingly though, in Selby's "Chinese Archery" you will find an example of a "sitting" stance as a classic form for drawing a very heavy bow, to provide a stable foundation but leaving the upper body free and no doubt  also having to do with centering chi in the diaphragm.
I have doubts about  habitually bending to take the face down to the bow, since this may tend to predispose towards disrupting efficient physical alignment, but I guess hunting you can get yourself into some quite strange poses and when you are real close all kinds of stuff can work that would be hopeless at real long distances with something truly heavy to draw back.
Rod.

[SuperKodiak38]

I think it improves your balance. If you have ever stood in formation for a long time, as I know many here have, if you lock your knees straight you will fall over. Bend slightly and you are golden. It works for me, it feels awkward but it helps lower my center of gravity as Rod says anchors me.

[Stagmitis]

Bible5,


Personally I use varying degrees of bend. When  target shooting, my knees are never "locked"  but always carry a slight unnoticable bend. Aerial or moving targets I used a very pronounced bend. Like palehunter suggests I beleive it "Steadies" the lower body and aids in maintaining a solid form.


Howard Hill always bent at the knees to some degree or another as well. Most crucial when shooting aerial or running targets.


Try this......


Stand straight with knees locked and try to quickly shoot the rabbit that jumps up 8:00 to your left or right.


Now bend your knees and try it again. Youll notice how easy it is to swivel in either direction or up and down for that matter!


Stagmitis

[Shaun]

"sinking" is a way of getting more solid which may make shooting easier. I shoot better from a chair or kneeling than standing for the same reason. In G Fred's case, I think he bends his knees bedause he is about 9 feet tall and the deer is only 2 1/2 feet tall.

[five-oh]

I have never read any of Fred's stuff on form, but I too bend at the waist.  It seems like lowering my center of gravity just gives me a more stable platform when I shoot.  I also bend a little at the waist and lean forward a bit.  It probably aint right, but works for me.

[Vance in AK.]

I don't know why it helps, but when I bend slightly at the knees & waiste as he suggests, I do shoot better.

[Jeff Strubberg]

Might have something to do with Fred being nine foot four inches tall....

 

[Rod Parsons]

That's right, shooting one shot you can get away with all kinds of stuff if you are good at it.
I guess the so called "classic" form derives from cultures where you have to shoot heavy arrows a long way out of big draw weights repeatedly and with some hope of accuracy.
It is common to all cultures where archery in warfare became highly developed.
The hunched style is typical in many hunting cultures and probably derives from shooting up close and the desire to limit apparent movement.
Every conceivable style has it's roots in function, someplace, sometime.
Rod.

[Thunderbow]

"I think in his book or video (Asbel), he cites a study by law enforcement officers on the pistol range improving their scores by bending at the knees."

Then why don't olympic archers used Fred's technique?  Because it would dramatically decrease their accuracy, especially at longer distances.  It is a less stable platform to shoot anything beyind say 15-20yds.  Saying there is a need to constantly shoot arrows from a crouching position with a stick, just like Asbel, is not a good claim.  Standing up with good posture without any leg bend or waist bend is the most stable stance you can have.  Of course, hunting situations may dictate you use something else at the time...  Best to be prepared for them, too.

[Rod Parsons]

I would say that Olympic archers, in fact consistent target archers in general, don't stand the way they do so as to be accurate per se, they do it so as to be able to minimise physical variation and to be consistently accurate. The essential distinction is between what you need to do to hit once, and what you need to do to hit with consecutive shots, up to 12 dozen times. Target archery is about doing exactly the same thing, repeatedly.
Hunting is more about making one shot.
With war bows it becomes a question of having a technique which allows you to throw a heavy penetrating shaft further than someone who might be shooting back, which in turn requires mastering a technique which allows you to repeatedly shoot weights beyond what most of us would even want to string.
If you look at the style of someone like Ishi, what is immediately apparent is that he is minimising movements that can be seen from the point of view of his prey and that his drawing technique will also place a limit on the poundage he would have been able to shoot with any control.
Likewise an unassisted pinch grip and the strength of your pinch will determine the poundage at which the arrow will be loosed.
In practice, form is a product of function and is refined according to necessity except where it is culturally embedded to the point that it becomes an unquestioned convention.
But then nature has a way of coming along and delivering a swift kick up the behind, and you adapt or go under.
Rod.

[Swamp Yankee]

Check out G. Fred's article on being overbowed in the last issue of Traditional Bowhunter, he's standing up like an olympic shooter (first pict; not the 2nd woodchuck stalking position!).  I agree, body position is situational more often than not.  Find out what works for you most of the time, and do that most of the time.