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Author Topic: New Bill would have major impact on hunting rules  (Read 790 times)

Offline MAT

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New Bill would have major impact on hunting rules
« on: February 10, 2011, 03:48:00 PM »
Press release from the WWF.  As usual contact your State Senator if you have concerns.

Wisconsin Wildlife Federation

February 9, 2011

Contact: George Meyer, Executive Director, Wisconsin Wildlife Federation

Special Session Senate Bill 8 or Subsequent Legislation Needs to Address Impact on the Adoption of Hunting, Fishing and Trapping Regulations.

Poynette: As currently drafted, Special Session Senate Bill 8 will have a major impact on the adoption of future hunting, fishing and trapping regulations in Wisconsin. There are literally thousands of rules regulating hunting, fishing and trapping in the state. These rules set the specific bag limits, seasons, size limits and methods of hunting, fishing and trapping for the wide range of game fish and wildlife abundant in the state. These regulations are routinely adopted and modified after being voted on by thousands of Wisconsin sportsmen and women and other interested individuals during the annual Conservation Congress Spring Hearings held in every county of the state on the first Monday in April. The Conservation Congress hearing process is the most publicly inclusive process for the adoption of rules in state government.

Special Session Senate Bill 8 would require that every routine hunting, fishing and
trapping rule change must undergo an “economic analysis”. This “economic
analysis” has eight detailed economic requirements including a provision that requires:
“A determination made in consultation with the businesses, local units of government and
individuals that may be affected by the proposed rule as to whether the proposed rule
would adversely affect in a material way the economy, a sector of the economy,
productivity, jobs, or the overall economic competitiveness of this state.” This
requirement to consult businesses, local units of governments and individuals that
“may be affected” makes the adoption or changing of the many hunting, fishing and
trapping regulations virtually impossible.

Local Example: Let’s say that the walleye size limit is raised for biological reasons for a
lake in a typical northern Wisconsin community. There may be two resorts on the lake, a
campground, there are four motels in town, three gas stations, five restaurants; the lake is
partially in a township and partially in the city, there is a bait shop and a boat dealer.
There are thirty-five property owners on the lake and approximately 350 anglers other
 than property owners fish the lake each year. It is reasonable to believe that each of these
individuals will or “may” be affected by the proposed walleye size limit change.
According to SSSB 8 each of these people, business and units of government need to be
“consulted” before the walleye size limit can be changed. This process would have to be
replicated for each local hunting, fishing and trapping rule change that occurs on an
annual basis.
Statewide example: A state-wide regulation raises even more difficult logistical
challenges for rule adoption. One of the more unpopular deer hunting regulations in the
state is the Earn-a-Buck requirement. If there was a proposal to end the EAB
requirement after SSSB 8 were adopted, the economic analysis “consultation”
requirement of SSSB 8 would require DNR to consult with over 600,000 gun deer
hunters, over 200,000 archery deer hunters, thousands of motels, restaurants, gas stations,
sports shops and virtually every local unit of government. They all will or “may be
affected” by such a rule change.

Of special concern is that this “consultation” requirement could be used by anti-hunting,
fishing and trapping groups to bottleneck and legally change the adoption of future
hunting, fishing and trapping legislation. This has been a commonly used tactic of such
groups on a national  and state basis.

As a result, the Wisconsin Wildlife Federation is asking State Senators and
Representatives to recognize the unique, highly public nature of the current process to
adopt hunting, fishing and trapping regulations and modify the proposed requirements of
SSSB 8 or through follow-up legislation to remove the overly onerous “consultation”
requirement of SSSB 8 for hunting, fishing and trapping rules.

The Wisconsin Wildlife Federation is the states largest conservation organization
comprised of over 160 hunting, fishing, trapping and forestry related organizations with a
total membership in excess of 100,000 sportsmen and women. The Federation is
dedicated to conservation education and the advancement of sound conservation policies.

Offline Kevin Winkler

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Re: New Bill would have major impact on hunting rules
« Reply #1 on: February 10, 2011, 05:15:00 PM »
Which rocket scientist authored that bill! Wish we didn't have to goof around with all this political bull@%>?
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Offline Whip

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Re: New Bill would have major impact on hunting rules
« Reply #2 on: February 10, 2011, 08:10:00 PM »
That is a scary concept!!

And then the politicians wonder why they rank below used car salesmen on the respect and trust meter  "[dntthnk]"    "[dntthnk]"  

What a bunch of horseapples!!
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Offline Greg Szalewski

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Re: New Bill would have major impact on hunting rules
« Reply #3 on: February 11, 2011, 06:19:00 AM »
Mark, could you please post the bill for review? or link it
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Offline RGK

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Re: New Bill would have major impact on hunting rules
« Reply #4 on: February 11, 2011, 07:31:00 AM »
The bill

 http://legis.wisconsin.gov/2011/data/JR1SB-8.pdf


Personally, I agree with Senate bill 8 and I disagree with the comments by George Meyer. To better understand Senate bill 8, see the link. It begins with this:


"The authority of a state agency to promulgate rules interpreting the provisions of a statute enforced or administered by the agency and to implement or enforce any standard, requirement, or threshold as a term or condition of a license issued by the state agency; gubernatorial approval of proposed administrative rules; economic impact analyses of proposed rules and emergency rules; and venue in a declaratory judgment action seeking judicial review of the validity of an administrative rule and in an action in which the sole defendant is the state."


Take the time to read page 2-4 for a complete understanding


The spring hearings create or revise administrative code (which has the effect and power of law) Essentially, the spring hearings asks your permission to change a rule that does not go through the legislative process and review. the current rules process includes a fiscal review but only by the DNR or other agency but not the legislature. If you look at the spring hearing booklet, you will see the following on page 7.


"NOTICE IS HEREBY FURTHER GIVEN that pursuant to s. 227.114, Stats., it is not anticipated that the proposed rules will have a significant economic impact on small businesses. The department’s Small Business Regulatory Coordinator may be contacted at SmallBusiness@dnr.state.wi.us or by calling (608) 266-1959. "


"it is not antisipated by the DNR" and "Significant impact" is in the eyes of the DNR. Is that good enough for you if your a person effected by the proposed change?

Bill 8 does not create something new in terms of undergoing a fiscal review, it only expands who is doing the reviewing beyond the agency or bureaucracy creating or changing the rule. In short, it adds oversight by elected officials over non-elected bureaucrats and that is a good thing. I think we all agree that non-elected government agencies might care less about jobs and the effect on people's livelihoods than they do about the rules they hope to create or change. This bill adds some review to the impacts on WI residents beyond what a bureaucracy will concern itself with.

Bill 8 is a good bill that addresses concerns of the citizens being governed by non-elected (and out of control) bureaucrats and the impacts of the rules they create. Remember, George used to head this very unelected bureaucracy he is commenting on with his letter. As the Former Sec. of the DNR that created and promulgated rules, he no doubt, would like that the status quo be maintained without oversight by elected officials.

From what I heard, the bill has passed yesterday.
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Offline Greg Szalewski

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Re: New Bill would have major impact on hunting rules
« Reply #5 on: February 11, 2011, 08:43:00 AM »
I like to have the issue sorted out before I contact my legislator. It is offten hard to determine the impact or intent of these bills. It makes me think of that old skit on Hee Haw where Roy Clark was in the barber chair and I think it was Floyd(all barbers were named Floyd then) would tell Roy something and he would say thats good. Floyd would then say no, that's bad and go on to expain further. Then Roy would say that's bad and Floyd would say no, that's good. And so it would go until you had no idea if it was good or bad.

Thanks Mark for binging this bad bill to our atention and thanks Ron for the link to this good bill.
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Past President, Wisconsin Traditional Archers
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Offline Whip

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Re: New Bill would have major impact on hunting rules
« Reply #6 on: February 11, 2011, 09:22:00 AM »
Good comparison Greg.  Sometimes I think our politicians act like they are in a Hee Haw rerun.

Personally, I don't agree that having politics more deeply embedded in wildlife decisions is a good thing.  Every time politicians get involved in an issue it becomes money rather than the wildlife that take center stage.  That is absolutely wrong in my opinion.  

Who do you trust more, a wildlife biologist who understands the impacts a rule will have on the resources we want to protect, or a politician who understands the impact of voting against a group that donates large amounts of money to their campaign fund?

The more we can keep politics out of the process the better off we will be.  Oh, for the days when George ran the DNR and was not subject to appointment by the governor!  We have been trying for years to get that appointment removed from the political process without success.
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Offline RGK

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Re: New Bill would have major impact on hunting rules
« Reply #7 on: February 11, 2011, 11:29:00 AM »
Now George is exactly what you decry. He is a paid Madison Lobbyist entrenched in the politics of game management from the outside. Your example is a bit too simplistic. I trust neither the wildlife biologist nor the politician as both have an agenda not based in altruisim and so I research and investigate before taking a position based on facts rather than whims and wishful thinking about how I whould like it to be. I am a an informed realist.
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Offline MAT

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Re: New Bill would have major impact on hunting rules
« Reply #8 on: February 11, 2011, 12:46:00 PM »
George Meyer is the biggest advocate for hunting and fishing rights representing over 160 organizations, and being a lawyer and former DNR secretary the smartest guy in town on these issues so I would trust his advice over anyone. To call him otherwise or to imply that he has other motives is simply wrong.

Politicians pass bills all the time with unintended consequences, and I would be very wary of this bill.  Animal rights orgs can twist vague language in court, so wouldn't it be better to fix the language as Meyer suggested so it can't be used against us than to just trust the politicians?  Most never read the bill or even understand it, especially one this complex.

Offline Notso

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Re: New Bill would have major impact on hunting rules
« Reply #9 on: February 11, 2011, 07:48:00 PM »
The LAST thing we need is politicians involved in wildlife management. Management should be based on science - not what will be popular and get you elected next time around.

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