What we don't know

[Van/TX]

There are different degrees of TP or It.  I've seen some of the worse.  I've seen folks that couldn't even draw a bow with their eyes open. It's a shame.  Wish they could all be cured.  It has caused many Archers to give up the sport.....Van

[Guru]

Originally posted by Steertalker:
Congratulations to you great instinctive/snap shooters.  You must have some God given talent that most archers do not have, including myself  

Brett,I believe it does take some degree of "god given talant".Just like any athletic activity,some seem to have it,some don't and really have to work hard to have what some take for granted.I've seen guys pick up a trad bow the first time and shoot as well as a lot of guys that have been doing it for years. So yes,IMHO you're right,and I'm sorry you weren't blessed with that ability.

[Guru]

Originally posted by Steertalker:

 And Mr DiStefano, if you can cure TP in 5 minutes, you surely must sit on the right hand of the Father.
 

That's just a rediculous statement!

Do you know Rob?? Have you worked with him??

[Guru]

Originally posted by Steertalker:

I've got a question for you great snap shooters.  If you were to draw down on a wound up Texas WT at 15 yds and at the instant you hit anchor, if you really get there, the deer changes position, do you have the control to hold at anchor till the deer presents another shot, rather than letting down and having the deer see you and thus ruining your chance of ever seeing it again?

I don't know,never drew on a Texas whitetail,so I can't answer that.But I tell ya what,invite me down to your lease and I'll have an answer for ya    

[Guru]

JC, I'll say it again,preach on brutha,preach on!!!

 That was very well said...

[SteveMcD]

From reading all the posts. My experience has been. I never had target panic until I started to shoot competitively. TP is fear of failure, anxiety, and the breakdown of form (shot sequennce) as a result of the mind (conscienceness) trying greatly to over correct what the sub-consciencious mind (in the zone) would normally be doing anyway IF the shooter was relaxed and confident. I have learned that right before I shoot, I picture myself on a ridge on notellum mountain that is pretty good spot for deer and black bear, lots of patches of pine, with stands of beech and oak below - very relaxing, this really takes me  away (mentally) from the competiion line, then right before I step up to the shooting line or stake I visualize my shot. From there pick the spot and go with the flow.

[SteveMcD]

OOPS.. Sorry! I didn't know there was a healthy debate going on!  

[Ray]

Geez Loueez I thought this thread was dead three pages ago.

[Aaron Proffitt]

Now Brett,

  I never said you were a form facist...but since you did, now I know what flag your flying.

  Since we all agree that TP is indeed real ,I think we have also (thru debate) come up with the cause as well.

  It's the form facist !!!!
 It's true...you people get a guy thinking to much and the next thing you know.....BAM !!! Target Panic.
  He gets to thinking about bow arm ,drawing arm/elbow height, anchor point, feet position, barometric pressure,wind speed, air temperture(both at the point of the shot and down range), limb temp.(do they heat up due to friction like a rifle barrel?), change in spine from shot-to-shot of wood arras,points coming loose, etc. etc. ad nauseum.    

  See ? Then you have all these messages causing mental gridlock, the "server" goes down, and ...PRESTO ! No shot cause no message can get thru that mess.

 It's quite simple,really. Know what else is simple ? Shooting a tradtional bow accurately. Wanna beat TP ? Then become so aware of your equipment that it moves fluidly in the hand, becomes an extension of you. There are no shortcuts. It takes shooting and alot of it. Become so in-tune with your gear that you know where that arra is gonna fall before you even draw. That's why I love longbows, and you can't find that in  any "How -to" techy manual on shooting trad gear. You have to do it. Learn it and you will all but eliminate TP. So 'tween my ideas and Rob's cure, there is no reason that TP shouldn't go the way of the Wooly Mammoth.  

[Aaron Proffitt]

PS Gonna be out of pocket for about 3 weeks due to a short military obligation. Too bad,to. Gonna miss this discussion. Leave Sunday.

[Charlie Lamb]

Well, since my name was mentioned early on in this thread and a couple times since, I feel compelled to reply.

I seldom respond to threads that I haven't read the entire contents of, however I will on this one.

Why didn't I read the whole thread? Because TP or "it" scares the crap out of me. I battled with it myself in the mid 60's and it sure ain't fun.

Matter of fact, the reason it was most often called "it", was that it scared a lot of other guys so much that hardly anyone even wanted to call "it" by name... "it" may have one name, but it has many faces.

In my tournament days I looked to every source I could find to improve my game. I came across a book by a big name coach of the time by the name of Milon T. Ellot who wrote a book called, "Why We Miss". Basically it was a treatise on "it". By the time I'd finished the book I was experiencing every form of the malady. I WILL NOT discuss it's many forms because it can be passed along like a virus and is totally mental.

Fred Bear battled with "it" during his target days and I know it far preceeded that time... as someone said, it probably has existed as long as there have been bows and arrows.

My point in the conversations with Curtis was that if you don't have "it" then you shouldn't even read or talk about it. What you don't know won't hurt you. It's an element of shooting that we best stay ignorant of.

As far as those who are currently experiencing "it", let me say that I don't have a sure cure. What works for one may not work for another.

I do know that many, many archers have found the cure by use of a draw check. The clicker in it's many forms is the most common and works very well.

Our hero Fred Bear beat his problem, by using the back of his broadhead as a draw check. He wouldn't release until he felt the head touch his knuckle.

For me, nothing but dropping out of formal competitive shooting would do. I made a choice to only hunt and avoid target type archery. It worked for me.

Now when I do shoot at formal competitions, I don't keep a score card. It seems that, for me at least, that it is keeping score which causes the anxiety which is "it".

Good luck beating "it" to all who suffer and to those who don't have "it", be careful what you read.

[Ted A. Young]

Hummmm.  Blood pressures seem way to high on this subject.  What ever happened to "tolerance"???  Never had IT.  Don't want IT.  Can live with out IT.  and no, my wife's name is not IT.    :D        

[Steertalker]

(QUOTE)Hummmm. Blood pressures seem way to high on this subject. What ever happened to "tolerance"???(/QUOTE)

My question exactly!!!

(QUOTE)Please don't insult my efforts, don't presume that you or anyone else has worked any harder or want any more than I have at becoming an accurate shot. I think my technique is proven too....and I sho nuff have put the time and effort into it(/QUOTE)

JC, tell me how I insulted your efforts.  I never said a thing about you.

(QUOTE)I'm just curious why it is so difficult for you to possibly consider my way is correct for me...(/QUOTE)

JC, when did I ever say that it wasn't?  

(QUOTE)I quite often hear people touting there way is the only right way and other folks is the wrong way. I find that pompous and arrogant personally, I would never assume someone was wrong just because I didn't agree with them.(/QUOTE)

You're exactly right, JC and for you to insinuate that I am implying it's my way or the highway, is absurd and quite honestly, offensive to me.

(QUOTE)Congratulations to you great instinctive/snap shooters. You must have some God given talent that most archers do not have, including myself. Consider yourselves lucky, blessed or whatever.(/QUOTE)


I have been nothing but polite and respectful.  I will repeat it again....based on the videos I've seen, Terry, Guru and you are blessed and in a class of archers all your own.  THAT IS MEANT TO BE A COMPLIMENT!  But apparently I missed the mark.

(QUOTE)And some of you with this TP ailment might seriously consider taking Rob up on his offer. He's been around the block more than once let me tell ya.(/QUOTE)

(QUOTE)For you current poor TP demonized souls: I hope some of this post helps ya get back to good shootin and good huntin real quick(/QUOTE)

When did I ever say I had TP????  Yes I've had it and dwelt with it, but now I know how to deal with it when it pops up, through some excellent help I've had.  

JC, why can't you accept that I have found a "way" that works for me and want to tell others.  Kind of like spreading the Gospel.  I want to help others.  It's just a character flaw of mine.  But I am darn sure NOT try to force my way on you and anyone else for that matter.  You can choose to agree or disagree, listen or not listen...just like everyone else that may see this.

By the way, JC, I shot just like you three guys up until 2 yrs ago.  And was darn good.  I've got the trophies to prove it.  But being good 80-90% of the time wasn't good enough for me.  That's when I switched my style completely.  Was it hard?  You bet!  Was it worth it?  Words cannot desribe how happy I am with my shooting.  I'm twice the shooter I ever was and know what it feels like to shoot with 100% predictability.  The point is...making the switch is possible if one is willing to put forth the effort.

Now, for those who have tried to shoot like Terry, Guru and you and it just isn't cut'n it for them, maybe they'll see something that I've said and want to investigate.  Isn't that what this place is all about....hmmmm?  Exchange of ideas.

(QUOTE)Target panic IS the inability to control ones shot and it IS 100% mental.

Most archers I've seen don't have control of their shots and thus, in my opinion, suffer from some degree of TP. It is most apparent to me with the instinctive/snap shooters.(/QUOTE)

That was my initial comment in this thread; a very simple, black and white statement.  It was neither rude nor disrepectful.  But apparently I pushed a button somewhere.  And as far as I'm concerned this whole thread has been blown way out of proportion.

Brett

[Rob DiStefano]

Originally posted by Steertalker:
.... And as far as I'm concerned this whole thread has been blown way out of proportion.

You got that right.  I think we've all said our piece.  TP is real, it's a mental condition, it can be beaten, if you've got it then you do need to seek help.  Good luck to all, and goodbye.