when bare shafting, cant or no canting

[Rob DiStefano]

Bareshafting tuning with broadheads?  Nope, not gonna happen, at least for me.  Even the slickest of broadheads are too much forward area with no tail feathers and the arras are gonna dance.  

Bare shaft with the appropriate pile point weight, do yer tweaking for optimum flight, fletch up and check for issues, pull the piles and go to broadheads. YMMV.

[Tree Ghost]

Then, why is this working for me.  I thought that I would do this so that I would have some confidence when the snow and crap kill my feathers in the weather.  I started doing this last year, and actually changed a few things on my bow this winter, and did it again 2 weeks ago.

[Razorbak]

Im gonna redo everything and go from there...thanks all for your help and suggestion...Pete..either way ..Bud is a darn good shoot just as long as he stop breaking draws with his gorrilla draw..LOL

[O.L. Adcock]

Tree Ghost, I don't know how wide those broadheads are but like Rob said, broadheads want to become the feathers and do the steering. If you have very good form and the arrows have a high FOC from a close enough distance, you can probably get away with it. Just being off a little bit in spine or mess up one release and that arrow is going to try to fly backwards! Some wild things can happen that will have you ducking under the car! I agree in tuning to the point that wet feathers isn't a problem but for safety's sake, do it with wet feathers!....O.L.

[Rob DiStefano]

And ... there are broadheads and then there are Broadheads - I like to get as close to a 3:1 ratio as possible, so that means Grizzly's, Ribby 190's, STOS (I think), Hills, and of course the Wensel tri's - to name just some.  Short wide blades are gonna be added trouble, IMO.

[mindbender]

Now...why would the cant of the bow NOT affect the way you 'read' the groups?  

If paradox is the arrow righting it'self after leaving the bow and you cant the bow 20 degrees would you not then have to account for that in how you read the groups..ie a weak group would be right and low (20degree) where the opposite would be left and high (20 degree).  SO it could interfere with reading knock point???

seems right to me but.....

[Tree Ghost]

Thanks guys.  I must be getting a little lucky.  The other reason that I started doing this was that I couldn't find a field point that weighed 150 grains for my Max 4s.  As close as I could find was a 145 that a guy in Idaho was having made for himself.  I also can't find a brass washer that fits this small diameter shaft so that I can add a little weight.  I've done ok out to 20-25 yards, but at 30 things start to get wild.  Thanks agin, and if you know of anyone that makes a 150 grain field point for the small diameter shaft, let me know.

[O.L. Adcock]

Mindbender, Lets say you are off a bit on your spine and they are weak grouping low right at 4 o'clock with the bow vertical. Cant the bow 20 degrees, they will now group at 5 o'clock. Paradox is NOT a left/right thing you can see, it's vibration/oscilation more like a guitar string being plucked. If you see wobbles, that's not paradox, that's the result of the timing of the paradox being off. This is more closely related to acoustics then another branch of physics. We are trying to adjust the timing of those oscilations so they are in-line where the arrow was pointed at the time of release. It's harmonics that arrow stiffness, length, and weight distribution effects.

Good tuning with the bow vertical they should group with and or overlap low right, cant the bow they still mix low right. The big thing is knowing a problem exists. If they group together a problem doesn't exist and canting the bow will make no difference.

I think some hold the bow vertical and for example their fletched arrows group to the left of a "spot", they cant the bow and they are online, they cant it more and they group right. That has nothing to do with tuning, what's happening is they aren't keeping the arrow under their eye. They are moving their rear sight around. The grouping left/right in the bare shaft planning method has nothing to do with where they group relative to a "spot", only how they group relative to each other when you are aiming at a spot. Poorly spined fletched field tips will fly close to where they are pointed, bare shafts or big broadheads will not. If fletched field tips group somewhere other then in line with the spot it cause we aren't pointing them there for what ever reason....O.L.