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Main Boards => The Shooters FORM Board => Topic started by: Huntschool on June 22, 2020, 12:05:23 AM

Title: Cant
Post by: Huntschool on June 22, 2020, 12:05:23 AM
I had a discussion a day ago with some shooting friends about a problem I was having shooting a particular "longbow".  Its slightly reflex/deflex cut slightly proud of center  with a thin leather vertical pad in the window and on the shelf..  I was getting good groups but they were left of center  (I shoot right handed)

One of my buds asked if I was shooting the bow vertical and I said yes.  He said I needed to cant the bow and the problem would be fixed......

I should say the arrows I am shooting are on the money for spine on this bow but may be a bit long.  They impact nock level and fly pretty much like darts.

Soooooo...... will canting the bow help fix this problem.  I really do not shoot much cant on my Widow PL's and dont seem to have this problem.......

Ideas, comments.......
Title: Re: Cant
Post by: McDave on June 22, 2020, 09:52:53 AM
Most people, whether they aim using the arrow point or shoot instinctively, get used to the center cut on the bow they normally shoot, and if they switch to a bow with less center cut, they will shoot left (RH shooters), and vice versa.  Since I shoot a number of bows regularly, and don't want to have to keep getting used to different center cuts, I now only buy bows with more or less the same center cut I’m used to. 

If I shoot a Hill bow, I will shoot left.  The best way for me to become accustomed to this is to expand my aiming awareness beyond the arrow point to the whole arrow shaft.  If I do this, I can see that it is pointing left, and make the necessary correction.  I could probably do the same thing by playing around with cant, but I don't want to limit myself to a particular cant.

If I were an instinctive shooter, I would just have to wait until my brain re-programmed to the new center cut.  I could help the process along by using a softer strike plate, like rug rest material, which moves the POI to the right, but often bows not cut to center also don't have a very generous rest area, so taking up some of that valuable real estate with a rug rest might make it too crowded.
Title: Re: Cant
Post by: Huntschool on June 22, 2020, 11:48:16 PM
Well..... the cant seemed to solve the problem at 10-12 yards but at 20 I was right back at shooting left.  I am beginning to wonder if it is my arrows.  Frankly, they are almost 2" longer then my carbon arrows which shoot high but mostly dead nut left to right with good nock placement but can shoot right as opposed to left.

I am going to try some different carbon arrows tomorrow and see what happens.  I feel like I am lined up on the target via my eyes.

I am not beyond working down the contact side of the window on the bow to bring it more into a full center cut if that is what I need to do.  I would rather do that then fuss with arrows.....

I really want to work out some wood stuff for competition and this has got me "buggered".
Title: Re: Cant
Post by: Jock Whisky on June 23, 2020, 11:36:31 PM
how did you determine the arrows were spined correctly?
Title: Re: Cant
Post by: Huntschool on June 24, 2020, 12:26:27 AM
From the mfg and the custom builder at the length and poundage that I gave them.  That's why I am now going to shorten two of them and see what happens.  I think they may be a bit long.
Title: Re: Cant
Post by: Jock Whisky on June 24, 2020, 01:46:03 PM
Two things come to mind.

First I'd try bare shafting or paper testing to confirm you have the right arrow configuration for your setup. Everyone is different and the spine recommendation you received may not be right for you.

Second I'd confirm that your eye was directly over the arrow. One way to do this by drawing to anchor while aiming at your arrow in a mirror. If the real arrow and the reflected arrow are pointing at each other you should be good. Obviously you don't want to release the string.

If you hold the bow vertical it's possible your eye is to the left of the arrow. This could result in a left impact. Canting the bow will move your eye over the arrow assuming you tilt your head with the bow at the same time.

Shortening your arrows will cause them to react stiffer and may result in more left impact.

Let us know how you make out.
Title: Re: Cant
Post by: McDave on June 24, 2020, 03:43:49 PM
“Shortening your arrows will cause them to react stiffer and may result in more left impact.”

I notice you said “may” which is correct.  Since the dynamics of a fletched arrow are more complicated than the dynamics of a bare shaft, it is not always possible to predict the direction the POI will move from stiffening or weakening the shaft.  Sometimes stiffening the shaft will cause the POI to move to the right.
Title: Re: Cant
Post by: mahantango on June 25, 2020, 06:22:17 PM
IMO if the degree of cant changes your POI then your arrows are the wrong spine. If spine is correct, nock is under eye and arrow is aligned with the target cant makes no difference.
Title: Re: Cant
Post by: Huntschool on June 26, 2020, 12:08:21 AM
Well, I tried the shortened arrows today and the problem for the most part seems to be fixed.  With my Widow PL I got shaft touching groups at 12 and 15 yards.  At 20 the group opened up to about 2-3 inches or perhaps a bit more.  I think Dave had it right. I took my time at draw and saw a very different split vision picture.  I really made no effort to hold to the right to compensate for what had been happening. 

I did add a bit of cant but not much really.  The shaft lined up under my eye and looked like it was right there. The interesting thing about this to me was this was shooting carbon shafts of 600 and 700 spine cut to the same length with the same fletch configuration and the same 100 gr point.  The shafts are GT Ultra Light and Big Jim's Dark Woods.  I still have one more shaft coming to try before I finalize my decision but right now I have a feel for what I need....

As to the wood shafts I was able to "cobble" one to the new length and it also shot just about to my POI with the other bow.  So, I guess I am going to try to find someone who can cut and nock taper these wood shafts down to the length I need and reinstall the points.

More work to be done.....