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Author Topic: Beat Target Panic (Maybe?)  (Read 4463 times)

Offline Dan Jones

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Re: Beat Target Panic (Maybe?)
« Reply #40 on: January 22, 2019, 08:58:44 PM »
Jim Casto:

I'm about 10 days into you program and I've done something that may be of interest to you and others trying to conquer the panic. I'm drawing and holding on a target in my basement that I have set up to be identical to what I shoot at when I'm at my archery club - a blank bale with only a white plastic bottle cap as the aiming point.

I'm doing this because my panic is clearly triggered by the sight picture. I'm hoping that drawing and holding on that exact target will desensitize me to that target and end the panic.

In years past I've done about a million draw and hold exercises at a blank bale without any lasting success so I'm hoping this step will bring a different result.  Your thoughts? 

Online Jim Casto Jr

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Re: Beat Target Panic (Maybe?)
« Reply #41 on: January 22, 2019, 09:07:17 PM »
Jim Casto:



... I'm doing this because my panic is clearly triggered by the sight picture. I'm hoping that drawing and holding on that exact target will desensitize me to that target and end the panic.

In years past I've done about a million draw and hold exercises at a blank bale without any lasting success so I'm hoping this step will bring a different result.  Your thoughts?

Dan,

That is EXACTLY what these drills were designed to do.  I could blank bale very well and it's a good exercise to work on form, but.... there's always a but, you know... when I introduced aiming, I blew up.  These drills will MAKE you aim and WILL eventually "desensitize" your need to release the string.
"Archery is really very simple. You just have to do the exact same thing on every shot."
Bill Leslie, July 22, 2017

"Form is everything." 
Al Cole, June 7, 2008

Offline Dan Jones

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Re: Beat Target Panic (Maybe?)
« Reply #42 on: January 23, 2019, 10:27:50 AM »

Jim,

I hope you are right that at some point the sight picture will no longer trigger the shot. I'm twelve days into the program and I can tell that I'm not there yet. As I have said to you previously, I don't think that target panic begins - or at least my decades long version of the panic - began as a mental problem. It began as an eye/hand problem - i.e. the eye sees a sight picture and tells the brain to release. It is that cause/effect connection that has to be broken or desensitized. A clicker never worked for me because it didn't break that connection. I believe that for me switching hands did work to escape the panic because the sight picture was very different and the arrow was no longer anchored under my dominant eye.

We shall see.  Thanks again for your efforts to help people overcome target panic.

Online Jim Casto Jr

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Re: Beat Target Panic (Maybe?)
« Reply #43 on: January 23, 2019, 01:47:42 PM »
Dan,

I guess the question is, "Are some folks simply unable to retrain the brain and not HAVE to release the string?"  My guess is, there are.  However, since your 12 days in, I assume you haven't released the arrow--right?  If so, you're making progress, so, just stay put until you're completely comfortable at anchor while aiming.  There's no rule that you have to advance to the next step on a certain day.  I stress in the drills to NEVER advance beyond your complete control.

Of the hundreds of folks I've sent these drills to, I hoping above all that you find some relief.  I know how frustrating this darn stuff is.

"Archery is really very simple. You just have to do the exact same thing on every shot."
Bill Leslie, July 22, 2017

"Form is everything." 
Al Cole, June 7, 2008

Offline Dan Jones

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Re: Beat Target Panic (Maybe?)
« Reply #44 on: January 23, 2019, 02:46:53 PM »
Unfortunately, I have had several arrows get away from me. I went back and repeated that day's drill from the beginning. Was I supposed to have gone all the way back to day 1? 

As I have said, I've done a whole lot of these draw and hold exercises over the years and I can sense that the panic is still right there waiting for me. I believe that I'll know when or - if -the uncontrollable release is gone. In previous draw and hold efforts, the panic was alway there when I first tried to shoot an arrow. If I remember correctly, I once did the draw and hold on a blank bale for six weeks and didn't put a dent in the damn panic!  Maybe this time.

Online Jim Casto Jr

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Re: Beat Target Panic (Maybe?)
« Reply #45 on: January 23, 2019, 03:21:40 PM »
Dan,

I'm thinking you might just stay close (very close), aim while holding and just stay put there until you "feel" comfortable.  There's really no need for you to go to more distance until you get it down up close.

Everyone I've communicated with has had the NEED to shoot leave them in just a few days.  You're a tough one, but I'm confident if you stay close, immerse in aiming and let down, that desire will fail--sooner or later. :)

Never advance beyond your complete control.

« Last Edit: January 23, 2019, 03:29:43 PM by Jim Casto Jr »
"Archery is really very simple. You just have to do the exact same thing on every shot."
Bill Leslie, July 22, 2017

"Form is everything." 
Al Cole, June 7, 2008

Offline jeff w

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Re: Beat Target Panic (Maybe?)
« Reply #46 on: January 23, 2019, 04:36:19 PM »
Kind of a rookie in the process, just completed day 13.  A couple obsevations:   1-glad I had some lighter limbs than I was shooting.
Drawing, and holding, a little different than drawing and letting fly.  2-in addition to controlling the release, I feel that I am coming to full draw with a consistent anchor.   

Determined to follow it through as prescribed.  Once complete will keep a copy to refer to as a refresher if needed.  Thanks again Jim!

Online David Mitchell

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Re: Beat Target Panic (Maybe?)
« Reply #47 on: January 24, 2019, 04:33:30 PM »
Jeff, I have finished day 58.  Stick with it brother and it will help you.  Don't give up!
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Online David Mitchell

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Re: Beat Target Panic (Maybe?)
« Reply #48 on: January 29, 2019, 12:02:13 PM »
Gang, Today I finished the 63rd day's exercises and that in the frigid temps we are getting! The time has passed very quickly, and it has actually been fun to do the drills.  I had no idea what lay ahead when I received an email from my friend Jim Casto, Jr. asking if I would be interested in receiving a program to combat TP which he had developed which had worked very successfully for him and another mutual friend, and he now wanted to see what results others might have and so graciously offered to send it to anyone free of charge (and it's still an open invitation I'm sure).  I figured, why not, I've tried about everything else and was still having trouble even getting through my clicker before I froze up and let go.  My draw length was shrinking and I was frustrated.

Day 1 began....stand 3 FEET from the target, draw, anchor, set back tension, immerse yourself in aiming, and let down. Do this 30 times!  Seriously?  Yes.  Seemed mighty close-up--but heck, who couldn't manage that!  I determined to do the drills just as spelled out--no short cuts, no cheating, no releasing an arrow before the time.  Looked like a long time ahead doing daily drills but I have struggled with that stuff for waaaay too long.  I committed to do it as prescribed.

Some of you who have been there and done that can relate to my joy at finally being able to back out to 30 yards and make a controlled shot.  Those who have never had it won't be able to grasp the joy that brings.

This has been the start of a new day for my archery, I believe.  I have increased my draw length quite a bit in the process (at Jim's suggestion) and thus now have some bows too heavy and arrows too short. But a small price to pay....and new reason to get some new stuff.

I want to openly thank my good friend, Jim, for putting me on the way to where I am today.  Will it last, you may ask.  I now have the tools to keep working with into the future and I intend to do so.  I honestly believe that if an archer new to shooting, especially traditional bows, begins first with this series of drills they may very well never develop the problem.  To others who are somewhere along the way whether day 1 or 50, stay the course!

 :clapper:
The years accumulate on old friendships like tree rings, during which time a kind of unspoken care and loyalty accrue between men.

Offline mistercmath

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Re: Beat Target Panic (Maybe?)
« Reply #49 on: January 29, 2019, 07:36:42 PM »
David,
Interesting you should mention your increased draw length. I notice an additional inch in mine. Not sure how much of this is due to the light poundage bow I am using for the program, or whether it has come from a more careful shot cycle.
I also have a much better anchor and more consistent back tension. These are all new for me. I've been shooting trad bows for about two and a half years, now, and over-bowed myself from the get-go. I certainly wish I had done Jim's program before ever shooting any arrows. The increase in confidence is nice, too.
That's really inspiring, and I'm only done with the first 14 days.  :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

Online David Mitchell

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Re: Beat Target Panic (Maybe?)
« Reply #50 on: January 29, 2019, 07:47:46 PM »
Very interesting, Stephen.  I actually live only about 45 minutes from Jim and went to visit him before starting the program.  He worked with me on my shot set up and told me that I was not nearly where I should be on draw length.  He worked with me on getting back where my alignment was correct and I was using my back muscles as I should.  That increased my draw quite a bit.  I am delighted with the new draw and set up.  I have stayed with the longer draw when I moved up in weight.  Stay the course and just enjoy drawing, getting your back tension, and enjoying the sight picture without the uncontrollable urge to release.  The time passed quickly for me.
The years accumulate on old friendships like tree rings, during which time a kind of unspoken care and loyalty accrue between men.

Offline mistercmath

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Re: Beat Target Panic (Maybe?)
« Reply #51 on: January 29, 2019, 08:11:37 PM »
One thing I forgot to mention is the feeling I've always had that there was someone in my head who keeps letting go of the string, without my permission. I even tried let-down drills, but had nearly no ability to not shoot the arrow. It really felt bizarre, and a bit frustrating. My shooting kept getting more accurate with time, and I have really enjoyed shooting my bows, but I always wanted to control my shots.
It now seems like that is the likely outcome now. I don't have any trouble holding and aiming (staring at the spot). Hallelujah, brother!

Online McDave

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Re: Beat Target Panic (Maybe?)
« Reply #52 on: January 29, 2019, 08:58:22 PM »
Interesting that you should mention this, but I have found new ways to hold at full draw that seem more solid, where I don’t feel like I need to let go of the arrow until I want to.  I have never practiced holding at full draw without shooting before Jim’s program, and this is definitely a benefit.  Of course, a lot depends on what happens when I return to shooting, but at this point I do feel more confidence.
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Online Jock Whisky

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Re: Beat Target Panic (Maybe?)
« Reply #53 on: January 29, 2019, 10:46:10 PM »
That is interesting for me as well. I'm on day 27 and have come up with a more consistent grip on the string which led to a better anchor. That in turn lead to better back tension. I had made some progress with TP over the years but I still had that little bugger in my head that would drop the string very quickly after anchor. Having to aim and vary anchor time while doing these exercises just might be the magic needed.

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Offline Mark R

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Re: Beat Target Panic (Maybe?)
« Reply #54 on: February 01, 2019, 03:03:51 PM »
This is a good training exercise for me, the only thing is letting down so many times has to be done a certain way for me or I get a little pain and stiffness in my neck and top of shoulder area, this subsides after a few hours but if I switch over to pulling lefty during the exercise it helps even it out with no problem of pain and stiffness. Just saying the letting done is not a natural motion for my shoulder for so many times and switching around to lefty and repeating some seems to help even things out, of course I'm a righty and I don't shoot any arrows lefty just draw and let down to keep things even, may be why some have a hard time of letting down if they experience some discomfort. Just working one side without the other can mess with your bodies over all alignment. I've been do this regularly when I shoot for sometime now. JMHO

Online David Mitchell

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Re: Beat Target Panic (Maybe?)
« Reply #55 on: February 01, 2019, 05:34:29 PM »
Mark, are you using a heavier/hunting draw weight bow?  I began the program with a 30# bow.  There are a lot of reps to do daily and it helps a great deal to use a bow that doesn't over stress muscles.  Of course, I'm 75 years old...so  :saywhat:
The years accumulate on old friendships like tree rings, during which time a kind of unspoken care and loyalty accrue between men.

Offline Dan Jones

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Re: Beat Target Panic (Maybe?)
« Reply #56 on: February 01, 2019, 06:39:59 PM »
I will echo what David Mitchell says about the risk of over stressing muscles and joints etc.. I started to do the program with the initial group and I tried to do it drawing a 30# bow with my left hand that I hadn't used to draw a bow for some years. (I switched to the right to escape the panic.) I found that I now have arthritis in my left index finger and I had to stop after about 10 days because of serious pain in my left shoulder. I've tried to get back to the program several times but the shoulder pain persists. There are indeed a lot of reps and a lot of holding at full draw and letting down. I'm also in my 70's but you don't have to be a senior citizen to do serious harm to the shoulder.

Online McDave

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Re: Beat Target Panic (Maybe?)
« Reply #57 on: February 01, 2019, 07:48:34 PM »
Remember, there is more than one way to let down: you can either let your string hand down, or your bow hand, or both at the same time, I suppose.  Letting down your bow hand is sort of like doing half of a push up.  Maybe one way will be less stressful for you than another.
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Would someone please make up my mind for me?

Offline Mark R

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Re: Beat Target Panic (Maybe?)
« Reply #58 on: February 02, 2019, 08:06:27 PM »
Yeh Dave I'm using a 35# bow, I do the whole exercise session at once, I find if I let down with both arms at the same time it works best. No real problem but the first time I did it all at once and did not shift to the other side and I think thats when I got a little tight, I switch to lefty after each 10 reps and pull that way about 5 or 6 times and no problem.   

Online McDave

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Re: Beat Target Panic (Maybe?)
« Reply #59 on: February 03, 2019, 03:47:05 PM »
As I move into the shooting phase of this program, I notice that when I draw with the intention of shooting, the old nervousness returns.  There is a difference, however.  Rather than the nervousness triggering my shot, I am able to recognize it as a nervous feeling that is not connected with shooting the bow.  If I hold for a few seconds, the nervousness goes away, and I am able to complete the shot under control, feeling the same as I do when I draw and let down.  Hopefully, now that the nervous feeling is not triggering my shot, it will diminish over time and maybe even go away completely.
TGMM Family of the Bow

Would someone please make up my mind for me?

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