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Author Topic: Beat Target Panic (Maybe?)  (Read 4826 times)

Offline fnshtr

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Re: Beat Target Panic (Maybe?)
« Reply #80 on: April 06, 2019, 01:51:30 PM »
This thread has been most helpful and enlightening. Thanks to Jim and Dave for their insights.
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Online David Mitchell

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Re: Beat Target Panic (Maybe?)
« Reply #81 on: April 07, 2019, 07:45:27 PM »
This past week end was the first time i have shot with people around since finishing Jim's program. I was attending the KyTradFest and arrived Thursday afternoon.  Several people were hanging around the club house where the warm up targets are located but activity was slow as the shoot had not officially started yet.  I figured that it would be a good time to give it a try.  I stepped up to the shooting line and made my first draw, aware that some guys sitting nearby were watching because I am a lefty and was shooting the target on the right side of a two target set up.  They jokingly told me that I should be shooting the target on the left as a lefty. I was not sure what to expect, but drew to my anchor, aimed, held a bit and let down--not worrying what anyone thought about my letting down.  I found that I was able to control my shots on the 10 yard target, then on to the 20 and the same experience so I happily shot a number of times with alternating draws and let downs.  Felt good to be able to do that.  I don't remember how long it has been since I could do that!  Friday in shooting the 3D range I only had a few ooopsies, but not the wild kind I was used to having.  :biglaugh:  I was able to know what I had done (or not done) and would go on and do the draw, anchor, aim, let down drill to get things back in sync. Admittedly, I did not have the perfect round, yet I was really happy to be able to do things I couldn't for a long, long time.  I realize that for me, this must be a regular part of my shooting sequence from now on.  I have things basically under good control and know how to fix it when things want to go south. 
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Offline rnrs

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Re: Beat Target Panic (Maybe?)
« Reply #82 on: May 09, 2019, 10:50:56 PM »
Jim, I hope I'm not the first to fail your program! I am on day 53 but still often can't hold on target if I know I am going to shoot the arrow. I can do it really well if I am going to let down. The anxiety creeps in as I go thru the aiming process.
I have had TP for about 50 years - tough to break. Do I go back to lighter bows and closer distance?

Thanks, Rick Wilson

Online Jim Casto Jr

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Re: Beat Target Panic (Maybe?)
« Reply #83 on: May 09, 2019, 11:11:30 PM »
50 years?   Oh my!   That's even worse than me by about 15 years.    :)

Let me ask you a question.  On what day and at what distance did you first notice any anxiety creeping in?

"Archery is really very simple. You just have to do the exact same thing on every shot."
Bill Leslie, July 22, 2017

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Al Cole, June 7, 2008

Offline rnrs

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Re: Beat Target Panic (Maybe?)
« Reply #84 on: May 09, 2019, 11:27:24 PM »
I felt some level of anxiety when I first started releasing an arrow at 15 yards. I could often hit what I was shooting at but it was not a controlled shot - my mind thought I was on and off it went.    rick

Online Jim Casto Jr

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Re: Beat Target Panic (Maybe?)
« Reply #85 on: May 09, 2019, 11:57:30 PM »
I felt sure that was going to be your response.  Rick, with all due respect, no one has failed when they followed the drills to-the-letter; a lot of folks have given up because they didn’t follow the advice in the drills.

Unfortunately, a lot of folks will “read” the drills, and then start the program, but very few will “study” the drills and follow my advice throughout.

To answer your question, let me simply quote from the document itself:

“Before you begin, you’ll have to ask yourself if you’re willing to spend at least 63-days (maybe more) on a STRICT regimen of drills…”

“Depending on how badly you’re afflicted with this devil, you may not be able to advance, or extend your distance as quickly, or feel as comfortable as we'd like. So.... if at any time you’re not comfortable, slow up and go back to the previous step.  We’re in no hurry here; stay with it—you have nothing to lose and everything to gain.  NEVER stress yourself; don’t let any anxiety come it.  Stay where you are, or go back a step or two.  Do NOT try to advance until you KNOW you’re ready to.”

“You must NEVER try to advance beyond your COMPLETE control. You have to pay the price and it'll be worth it in the end--trust me.”

“***If at any time the anxiety creeps back in, just go back to the previous step.  Repeat it until it's gone, then advance to the next.”

Honestly, if you’ve suffered with this devil for 50 years, it may take you a year or two to complete the drills as specified.  I have gotten many PM’s and emails asking similar questions and my answer is always the same…. NEVER try to advance beyond your COMPLETE control.  It’s that simple.  When the first hint of anxiety comes in, you have to stay put until it’s gone. You have the pay the price to overcome the demon. Believe me, I know how frustrating it can be at times.
"Archery is really very simple. You just have to do the exact same thing on every shot."
Bill Leslie, July 22, 2017

"Form is everything." 
Al Cole, June 7, 2008

Offline rnrs

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Re: Beat Target Panic (Maybe?)
« Reply #86 on: May 10, 2019, 12:03:51 AM »
Thanks Jim,  I'll go back - way back, and not advance until I am in complete control( no anxiety )
 I will really miss not shooting more arrows! Is that your recommendation?    rick

Online Jim Casto Jr

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Re: Beat Target Panic (Maybe?)
« Reply #87 on: May 10, 2019, 12:23:25 AM »
Yes sir, I'd recommend going back to day 22 and begin anew.  Remember.... NEVER try to advance beyond your COMPLETE control.   :)
"Archery is really very simple. You just have to do the exact same thing on every shot."
Bill Leslie, July 22, 2017

"Form is everything." 
Al Cole, June 7, 2008

Online BruceT

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Re: Beat Target Panic (Maybe?)
« Reply #88 on: May 10, 2019, 09:51:22 AM »
    Well I’m in exactly the same boat !! I finished the program on April 15 th . I have been shooting twice daily since then . I can get to my anchor, acquire back tension , and then it’s gone . I kinda thought I was cured because before the program I would have trouble even getting to full draw . A little bit of knowing something wasn’t right but not wanting to admit it 😏
    I guess back to Day 22 for me as well . In some ways not shooting isn’t a loss as a feel I have elevations pretty much engrained . Shooting Left and Right was horrendous !
    Just to clarify, shooting with no anxiety and having control, means you attain anchor and back tension and then really hone in on the aiming , when all good you release ?
    Thanks Rick for bringing this up and thanks Jim for explaining the process.
    I’m 67 , likely had the demon for most of my shooting years , a little blip in there with wheels . A lot of those years I likely didn’t realize what it was , partially because of a shooting style , where as soon as you touched anchor,it was gone.
    “That’s my story “.  Bruce
   

Online Jim Casto Jr

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Re: Beat Target Panic (Maybe?)
« Reply #89 on: May 10, 2019, 10:01:29 AM »
BruceT wrote:  "...Just to clarify, shooting with no anxiety and having control, means you attain anchor and back tension and then really hone in on the aiming , when all good you release ? ..."

Yes.  You have to get the to place where you can be "comfortable" while aiming.  Once you can comfortably set your back and aim, then you can go to conclusion.  The least bit of anxiety is a signal to "stay put", or go back a step.

Bruce,

It sounds like you have made some great progress.  You just advanced too quickly.  :) 



"Archery is really very simple. You just have to do the exact same thing on every shot."
Bill Leslie, July 22, 2017

"Form is everything." 
Al Cole, June 7, 2008

Online McDave

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Re: Beat Target Panic (Maybe?)
« Reply #90 on: May 10, 2019, 07:24:28 PM »
Quote
Yes.  You have to get the to place where you can be "comfortable" while aiming.  Once you can comfortably set your back and aim, then you can go to conclusion.  The least bit of anxiety is a signal to "stay put", or go back a step.

This has been my guiding thought since finishing Jim’s program.  At my age, with the number of years of target panic I’ve experienced, I may never reach the place where I can draw and shoot the bow competitively or in front of an audience without experiencing some level of anxiety.  What Jim’s program gave me was the knowledge that I can ALWAYS draw the bow under control and without anxiety if I am alone and close to the target.  My body has memorized this feeling through many repetitions, and I know when I have it and when I don’t.

The first thing I had to do is to make an agreement with myself that I will not shoot a shot unless I feel relaxed and under control.  I found that as soon as I allowed any rushed shots, pretty soon all of my shots are rushed.  The easiest way to avoid a rushed shot is to let the bow down, as Jim recommends.  This not only avoids that particular rushed shot, but trains your body that your response to feeling rushed will be to let the bow down and not shoot the shot, so it becomes easier to let shots down in the future.

The other thing I do, which I haven’t heard Jim recommend, is to wait until the rushed or anxious feeling goes away.  To do this, allow yourself to fully experience the rushed or anxious feeling, rather than trying to avoid it, while holding at full draw.  This feeling is not a mandate to rush the shot, it is simply a bad feeling without any deeper meaning.  I find that after a while of holding at full draw, the rushed or anxious feeling goes away, and then I can focus on aiming feeling relaxed and under control.  I don’t wait until I feel the rushed or anxious feeling to decide to do this.  I acknowledge before I even start shooting that I will probably have rushed or anxious feelings, and commit to holding however long it takes for the bad feelings to go away before I aim and shoot.  I make the same commitment before each shot.  The bad feelings usually go away within a few seconds of reaching full draw, so it isn’t like I’m holding for much longer that I should be holding anyway.  My fallback is that if I have to hold so long I begin to collapse, I will let down the shot, but realistically, this hasn’t happened.

Sometimes I mix both methods: letting down some shots and holding through the anxiety on others.

Try this; maybe it will work for you too.
« Last Edit: May 11, 2019, 10:35:22 AM by McDave »
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Offline rnrs

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Re: Beat Target Panic (Maybe?)
« Reply #91 on: May 10, 2019, 08:26:40 PM »
Guys - thanks for the good suggestions. I went back to step 22 and did fine. I'll keep plugging away.  rick

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Re: Beat Target Panic (Maybe?)
« Reply #92 on: May 12, 2019, 06:44:31 AM »
BruceT and rnrs,

McDave’s post brought me back for a reality check.  I may have given you guys some unrealistic expectations in my last post so let me try to clarify some.  Everyone, experiences some shot anxiety at times whether they suffer from TP, or not.

We sufferers may never completely get over the anxiety and urge to shoot at times (rush the shot).  The objective for us is to learn to overcome those urges and shoot only controlled shots.  I handle mine by letting down and starting over; some folks hold thru it until those urges leave, and like McDave, some do both.  The objective is, as stated in the document, “...If you’re willing to pay the price, put in the time and not cheat, you may end up like me and be thrilled that the demon is gone; if not gone, at least under control—FINALLY! ?”

"Archery is really very simple. You just have to do the exact same thing on every shot."
Bill Leslie, July 22, 2017

"Form is everything." 
Al Cole, June 7, 2008

Online BruceT

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Re: Beat Target Panic (Maybe?)
« Reply #93 on: May 12, 2019, 09:01:16 AM »
    First off , thank you Jim and McDave for your insights ! It’s appreciated.

    I started Day 22 ,on Friday and did two 30 shot sessions yesterday, and I think I was in control . I’m kinda thinking that I might just build the program into my regular practice session . Regular practice, was to go out in backyard, shoot for about a half hour. A lot of times that first one was poor , because I rushed . Lots of left, right misses . I would blame the miss on plucking , back tension, eye not over arrow etc. But I think , I was just not aiming intently. When I did aim intently , I had good back pressure and the release just happened on its own. Anyway, the problem seemed to be to much shooting trying to fix a problem, and all I was doing was engraining a bad habit .
    On a positive note, I have the most beautiful outdoor range , shaded by oak trees , and a round bale to shoot at . Longest distance  being 50 yards. It really won’t be an imposition to redo the last half of the program . I have three and a half months to get it sorted !
    Bruce

Offline popseal

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Re: Beat Target Panic (Maybe?)
« Reply #94 on: May 13, 2019, 11:36:46 AM »
1. get real close, 2. think about "loading" the rhomboid, anchoring, and/or aligning the shot, 3. blind bail shooting is helpful (pick your poison)......it works for me......
popseal

Online Jim Casto Jr

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Re: Beat Target Panic (Maybe?)
« Reply #95 on: May 13, 2019, 11:45:38 AM »
Blank or blind bail work is excellent for form work, but in my opinion does nothing for target panic.

I've never seen a target panic sufferer who couldn't blank bail or go thru their shot sequence with their eyes closed. I feely admit we're all different and YMMV.

"Archery is really very simple. You just have to do the exact same thing on every shot."
Bill Leslie, July 22, 2017

"Form is everything." 
Al Cole, June 7, 2008

Online Jim Casto Jr

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Re: Beat Target Panic (Maybe?)
« Reply #96 on: October 16, 2019, 07:53:37 PM »
To-date, I've sent this program to nearly 600 individuals from here and three other forums. I've received extremely good reports from many archers. The program has been updated and should anyone want to give it a try, just PM me your email address and I'll forward the PDF file to you. Winter is an excellent time start.
The only requirement on your part is.... I expect to hear reports along the way.  :)
"Archery is really very simple. You just have to do the exact same thing on every shot."
Bill Leslie, July 22, 2017

"Form is everything." 
Al Cole, June 7, 2008

Online Mark R

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Re: Beat Target Panic (Maybe?)
« Reply #97 on: October 21, 2019, 11:01:43 AM »
Hey Jim when you say updated, any changes from original exercises.

Online Jim Casto Jr

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Re: Beat Target Panic (Maybe?)
« Reply #98 on: October 21, 2019, 11:45:44 AM »
The only change is in the anchor and hold.  It appears there's a direct relationship on how strongly you hold your anchor to your face while pulling and control.

I encourage throughout the revised version, when you anchor, press your anchor fingers into your face as hard as you can while pulling as hard as you can at the same time.  It appears to shorten the control curve a great deal.
"Archery is really very simple. You just have to do the exact same thing on every shot."
Bill Leslie, July 22, 2017

"Form is everything." 
Al Cole, June 7, 2008

Online Mark R

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Re: Beat Target Panic (Maybe?)
« Reply #99 on: October 21, 2019, 02:01:59 PM »
OK thanks I'll give it a try.

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