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Author Topic: Gapping at the bow  (Read 1903 times)

pavan

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Re: Gapping at the bow
« Reply #20 on: November 30, 2018, 11:13:27 PM »
The OP was reffing to hunting shots.  Many of these mechanical sighting tricks get a bit cumbersome in many hunting situations.  Personally, I think the crawl or string walking should include open sights in a separate category at 3d shoots, perhaps minus the peep sight.  If it is going to get all static and mechanical anyway, why not have bow sights for static 3d target shooting? 

Online the rifleman

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Re: Gapping at the bow
« Reply #21 on: December 01, 2018, 01:49:38 AM »
McDave is spot on.  Following the rules is following the rules, period.  I'd like to see how tsps version would go over at the Lancaster classic or any other competition.  I don't know anyone competing to win that doesn't aim.  Sorry to break it to you tsp, but the winners all aim to win and yep, that means gapping off the arrow, gapping at the bow, or utilizing some other visual reference to get their arrow on target.
Any time I compete i do whatever it takes within the rules to win.  Finding what works for me and moving my shooting to the next level is my goal. If you do less, don't kid yourself, you're not competing.
Tsp--- the point of this thread was to share a technique that can be utilized, as McDave said, with stock equipment that meets the parameters of the rules.  If you're not interested, there are a few thousand other posts.

Online Roy from Pa

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Re: Gapping at the bow
« Reply #22 on: December 01, 2018, 11:24:06 AM »
I cleaned up this thread a little.

Please keep it that way.

Roy

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Re: Gapping at the bow
« Reply #23 on: December 01, 2018, 11:28:29 AM »
Thank you sir.

Online Roy from Pa

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Re: Gapping at the bow
« Reply #24 on: December 01, 2018, 12:47:35 PM »
 :thumbsup:

Online the rifleman

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Re: Gapping at the bow
« Reply #25 on: December 02, 2018, 10:37:42 AM »
Last three shots of the morning.  The bareshaft shows that the bow likes the lower nock height.  The sideplate reference seems to be ingraining the sight picture and I'm hoping it will help me find, as Pavan said a more fluid, less mechanical shot sequence.

Online McDave

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Re: Gapping at the bow
« Reply #26 on: December 02, 2018, 01:06:10 PM »
I shot at the club quite a while this morning using your method.  I trimmed the strike plate until I was getting a 20 yard point on with the top of the strike plate.  This put the top of the strike plate at 5/8” above the top of the arrow.  This will vary among shooters, depending on anchor, facial structure, etc.  I thought at first I would have to hold the bow dead vertical, but found that slight cants of 0-10 degrees really didn’t affect the POI that much (I’m sure they would if you were shooting Vegas, but not enough to throw me out of the 10 ring at 20-25 yards).

I like this method better than any other method I’ve tried for adjusting the POI using gap.  The beauty of it is that I can switch back and forth between using it and using my old method without changing anything.  So if I get into a situation where low light or something makes it difficult to use the strike plate, I can shoot the same shot with the same setup instinctively or by gapping off the point simply by ignoring the strike plate.  My normal point on is 45 yards, so shooting from 40 yards on out, I just ignore the strike plate and use the point of the arrow to gap.  This gives me two reliable point on distances that I can choose from without changing anything.

I had to get used to two things.  First, my bows are all set up so the arrow goes where i’m looking, and the side plate is a little to the right of that, so I just have to make sure I’m focused on the target and the arrow is lined up with the target, with the side plate in my out of focus peripheral vision a little to the right of my flight path.  Second, when I’m making elevation adjustments using the strike plate, they seem backwards to me; they really aren’t, of course, but I had to get used to the fact that when you’re looking through a lower point on the side plate, that means you’re going to hit higher, and vice versa.  Probably just my own mind playing tricks on me.

I definitely would prefer this method for hunting.  If I can make any mistakes, you can depend on it that I will when I’m trying to focus on a live animal instead of a target.  For example, the first time I drew down on a deer after I switched from split to three under, I shot over the back of the deer because I instinctively grabbed the string split.  With this method, the only mistake I could make is to do something different than I’m used to.  If I forget to gap off the strike plate, it’s because I’m shooting instinctively or gapping off the point, which should at least give me the same accuracy I had before, pitiful though it may be.
« Last Edit: December 02, 2018, 02:51:54 PM by McDave »
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Would someone please make up my mind for me?

Online the rifleman

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Re: Gapping at the bow
« Reply #27 on: December 04, 2018, 11:04:14 AM »
I had a chance to use this method out of my deer stand yesterday and it put me on target very well.  I shot at some spots in the grass along the dam of our pond at last light and was amazed at how by just looking at the spot the arrow would be there.  I have not been at this very long, but it is already getting to be second nature to quickly reference my elevation and then focus all attention on the spot I want to hit.  As I hunt with a 56" PIKA it is quite a bit nicer to not have 34" arrows jutting out of my bow quiver.

I should also mention that in addition to Jimmy Blackmon's video Reddoge's description and drawing of gapping at the bow was helpful in moving me in this direction.

Online Roy from Pa

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Re: Gapping at the bow
« Reply #28 on: December 04, 2018, 04:47:37 PM »
Just watched Jimmy Blackmons video you suggested.

That is slick as heck.

Online the rifleman

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Re: Gapping at the bow
« Reply #29 on: December 04, 2018, 04:52:06 PM »
Thanks Roy.  Some risers have contrasting laminations tha you can reference also.  I think this will transition me more toward an " instinctive" shot process--- just burn a hole in the target.  I like the idea of not referencing the tip of the arrow.
Hope it works for you.

Online reddogge

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Re: Gapping at the bow
« Reply #30 on: December 04, 2018, 06:51:07 PM »
Just remember, guys, the gaps just give you a reference to get you in the ballpark. I started with them years ago because I got tired of over and undershooting 3-d targets. I draw and look at the gap to get me in the ballpark then concentrate on what I want to hit. When it looks good, off it goes.
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Offline Porkchop1

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Re: Gapping at the bow
« Reply #31 on: January 04, 2019, 01:46:58 PM »
John, you seem to be doing a lot of side thinking about how to get around aiming aids.  You may be a good candidate for the refined explanation of Howard Hill's aiming technique as explained by Jerry Hill.   $30 for a small book may seem like a lot, but as I have seen with others that had aiming issues, it can be money well spent.  an aiming system that works for groups and the more difficult hunting shots.   I have been doing it for years, it gets automatic to the point that it seems almost instinctive, but my son went from soft ball groups at 20 yards to hard tight groups.  Even my 66 year old wife, worked it out in a few shooting sessions to a point where she packs them without giving it a second thought.  She went from chewing my butt for spending $30 on something that i already knew to saying that it seems that she has always been shooting like that, of course the difference is from shooting cantaloup size groups at 15 yards to shooting softball groups at over 20 yards.

Do you have a title for the book?
Porkchop

pavan

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Re: Gapping at the bow
« Reply #32 on: January 04, 2019, 05:57:29 PM »
Title: Howard Hill's Method of shooting the Bow and Arrow.  On amazon for $30.  Let me be perfectly blunt.  Like my wife pointed out, I have been preaching pretty much the exact same information to beginners for years.  What is new in this is Jerry's protocol on how to make it work.  He does not give a detailed development of the form, but he does point out that the bow hand comes up slightly ahead of the drawing hand, like Schulz does, and comes down a bit at the end of the draw.  For many that downward slide at the end of the draw, as can be seen in any Howard Hill film, is less distinct, but it is easier for the eye to handle a slight subtractive position change than a totally additive movement from the hip up to the stopping point.  Yes,  it is a swing/spread draw, it can be done with any bow and it is more ergonomic for the shoulders if done properly.  What I do is make newbies watch the John Schulz film, then go out and shoot super slow motion with very light bows until the form is grooved in. "Howard would actually have us count, one, two, three, four, five , shoot."   That high speed stuff is for a ways down the road, most people do not take the time to work out the finite details and want to get to a fast and furious tempo, way to quick.  In the film of Jerry, he shows a considerable holding time on the still shots.  For newbies that are doing their best to kill my garage when we back up to 15 yards, I put a large red ball on the ground about where the arrow crosses the arrow shelf, when they tell me the ball is in the wrong spot and they are hitting the target, i kick the ball away and tell them to make their own spot without looking directly at that spot.  In almost every case with longbow shooters this will turn into an automatic response or 'conditioned' instinct at shots under 30 yards.  However, some people like to squeeze it at full draw with a longer aim for static shooting, I say there are certainly advantages to be able to shoot fast, but if that is not your thing, go ahead and squeeze it at full draw.  Remember, this is not point of aim, it is selecting a secondary 'imaginary' aiming spot that is only viewed in peripheral vision, while direct focus is only at the exact spot you want your arrow to hit.  if you miss by a foot, move that secondary spot by visual ratio that same degree that you missed, but never look at anything but the center of the center where you want your arrow to go.  you can train your eyes by fixing your focus on an exact spot and then pointing an arrow, without drawing the bowstring, at various other objects, until you get good at it.  That will take less than an hour of total time of practice for most people.  Your eyes will see two arrows indirectly, one for the left eye and one for the right eye, the arrow to the left and probably up a little, is the right eye if you are fake drawing right handed.  The converse if you are left handed.  This can be done very fast and in process after some time, but do not rush it.  Once your eyes are trained to use your secondary vision in this manner, it will seem to be the most natural thing.  For those that claim to not see two arrows when practicing this, have not done it and are doing a bit of leg pulling. 
« Last Edit: January 04, 2019, 06:10:20 PM by pavan »

Offline RedRidge

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Re: Gapping at the bow
« Reply #33 on: January 05, 2019, 10:18:34 AM »
Just watched the video. I know what I will be doing today! Thanks for posting this. Enjoyed reading it.
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Offline Doug Treat

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Re: Gapping at the bow
« Reply #34 on: January 07, 2019, 12:10:45 PM »
John, I've been using this method for decades now.  Initially, I called it a "tape sight" because I would stick a piece of medical tape on the back of my riser and draw lines on it for different yardages.  It evolved into just drawing a line with white out like the video and now I call it a "gap sight". The 3-D shoots that I have attended have not been super-intense about this and have said that if it's not an attached sight, it's fine. I've tried a lot of different aiming methods but this one for me has been the most consistent and every big game animal I have taken with a trad bow (9 of 'em), has been with this method.  I think the single "sight" using a strike plate would be ideal for hunting and 3-D.

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Re: Gapping at the bow
« Reply #35 on: January 07, 2019, 02:54:24 PM »
Thanks Doug!  That says a lot about it if it has worked well for you for decades.  I am finding that it is quickly becoming ingrained to the point where I use it to set my height within the first second of drawing the bow and then transfer all of my focus to the spot that I want to hit.  The last two shots out of the tree have been leaves at 20 yards and I've nailed them.  I did up my arrow weight just a bit and it has tightened up the sideplate gaps.

I see this leading to a more instinctive style for me after much more practice.

I had previously done all kinds of crazy things to get a close point on including some home cobbled 35" arrows---my buddies laughed until the match started---the extra long arrows let me put the point on the 3d animal from 15-25 yards, but I soon found they were a pain to tote in the deer woods.

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