Pack Goats???

[Steertalker]

String Cutter,

I agree with Santiam about the breed recommendation.  I'm not real sure a boer or boer cross will work for you.  They might tend to be a little lazy.  I don't know for sure because I've never tried to make one into a "packer", but after all this discussion I think I'm going to try.

[Chuck Wyatt]

Santiam,

Just saw this thread.  Interesting subject. Just so happens that we just got a full blood Nubian nanny with 2 half Nubian/half Togenburgs babies for milkers.  (My wife wanted a Jersy cow. I didn't. So we met in the middle.)  

Do you know how big Togenburgs get? It might be fun trying a pack rig on one of them later on, just for kicks.

[OH at work]

Cheryl,
Just curious.  When you say you raise them commercially do you raise them for dairy or meat.  If for dairy how much milk can you get from a goat    

Joe

[Steertalker]

Santiam,

I'm really fascinated by all this goat talk.  I love goats and have been raising registered boers for about 6 years now.  Have been wanting to find a cheap way to pack into the wilderness for elk without having to hire an outfitter.  Goats may be the answer for me since I already have my own.  I have four questions for you:

#1 What do you recommend I do to get my goats in shape for a 12 mile hike from 9,500' to 11,500'?  We live at 2800' elevation and it is hot here in September.

#2 After arriving at the drop off point do you give your goats an acclimation period before packing up and starting up the trail?

#3 What do you do with the goats while you are in camp, actually hunting or stalking within bow range?

#4 Do they need blankets at night to keep them warm?

The whole idea sounds interesting but just wanted to know how you contend with them once you get to your "honey hole".

Brett Bracken
Midland, TX

[Tradman]

Thanks for the reply Steertalker.  Just so happens we have a Pistolero son here right now (on loan) breeding our does.  He's been busy so we've got our fingers crossed for at least one good buck out of him.  

Joe, the goats we raise are strictly for meat production, although we do have a couple dairy goats to keep us in milk, cheese, ice cream and soap.  Our dairy goats give an average of three quarts a day, but will give up to a gallon if we'd milk them twice daily instead of once.  There's nothing like a big, cold glass of fresh goat milk to go with dessert!

-Cheryl

[Santiam]

Stringcutter,

 Goats are social animals and you have to get at least 2...One goat doesn't do good alone...

 Here is a link  where you can order a book that will help you along..Thats how I did it...

 http://www.hoeggergoatsupply.com/packing.html

 Wow Brett, I live at 490 feet elev. and hunt up to 4000...I have no idea except to get them in good shape...


 Sometimes I leave the goats in camp using a highline...Sometimes I take them with me...I have a leash in each of their packs so I can tie them if I decide to...Like working a bull or something...I know That Bob killed the bull in his photo with the goats right with him...Called him in..

 I camped for a week in the Blues and just made a little tarp leanto for the goats to get in..It was getting down to about 15 at night and they suffered no ill effects...I know that in the morning as soon as the fire got built they would climb out of the tarp and stand by the fire with the rest of us ...I watched their hair curl up while they soaked up the heat...LOL

 Like I said,hunting companions, not beasts of burden..

 Here is Petey helping me look for spring bear..

 

[Santiam]

I am fortunate that I have elk nearby...Elk hunt all day and sleep in my own bed....This pic is from a bull that we killed about 5 miles behind locked gates on private timber land..They allow walk in hunting...

 You get back mmore than a mile or so you run out of other hunters...They only hunt as far back as they figure they can get a elk out...I might add if you are caught behind gates on a 4 wheeler most timber companies out here prosecute to the full extent of the law..

 Not so with goats...

 This bull we quartered and bagged and left him there...Came back the next morning with the goats..

 

[Santiam]

This is a pic of my 2 brothers Hal and Trouble...They are Oberhasli/Lemanche and weigh a tad over 2 hundred pounds..

 My buddy in the pic killed a spring bear way down in the bottom..It was a nice boar about 225 lbs...They have the whole bear on...One has the 2 front legs and backstraps...The other has both back legs and the rest of the boned out meat...

 No sweat...

 I might add that packgoat breeders are getting goats larger every year...There are already packgoats over 300 pound...who knows what they will end up with...

 I think though that smaller goats in the 175 to 220 pound range are better for hunting..Those big slugs will be trail goats I am sure...I like the cross country goats myself..

 Good luck...

 

[Steertalker]

Santiam,

Thanks for the info and neat pictures.  You're lucky to be so close to the elk.  My favorite place is in the Rio Grande wilderness of southern Colorado and is really hard to get to.  We've always had to hire wranglers to pack us in on horseback and drop us off.  It's just getting too expensive, but it's the only way to get away from the people.  I want to figure out a cheaper way to do it and my goats may be the answer.  My boers are heavy muscled and stout and crossed with an alpine or oberhasli might produce a pretty good "mountain" goat.  

All my boer goat associates are going to think I've lost my mind when I breed my full blood south african bucks to some dairy goats.  Oh well..gotta do what ya gotta do!

Brett

[Stealthycat]

Goats ..... and I thought I looked weird leading llamas around !!! Cool pictures though. I figure goats are just a smaller version of llamas in how they pack, lead, eat etc etc.

[Steertalker]

Santiam,

Some pictures of a 5 month old full blood boer buck I raised last year.  

[Steertalker]

Santiam,

More pictures of Jesse James.  Think he'll make a pack goat???

[String Cutter]

Is it better to have your buck fixed while it's young? Or, wait until it's grown? To get a good size wether?   And for those of us how've never used pack animals. What is a high line. I'm sure that it's used to tye down a goat while you're out hunting from camp. But How do you make one?

[Steertalker]

String Cutter,

There are 3 ways to castrate a buck kid:

#1 Banding-use of a special rubber band whch is slipped over the testicles, thus cutting off the blood supply

#2 Emasculator-a device used to pinch the vas deferens and blood vessels to the testicles

#3 Cutting-removing the testicle with a knife

We "band" our buck kids when they are 1 month old because it's easier to get the band over their testicles at that age and to prevent them from getting too "bucky" looking.  However, since you are interested in raising pack animals and not "show" animals, you might want to wait til they are 4-6 months old.  However, you probably will have to "cut" them.  The advantage to waiting a little longer is that you may get a little more frame size. I don't recommend emasculators because it is not reliable and I also don't recommend waiting any longer than that.

All of the methods can be done by you without the aid of a vet.  I recommend banding. You can buy the "elastrator" at any farm supply place.  You will also need to administer a tetnis and "over eating" shot at the time of castration.

Brett

[Bpaul]

OK have to chime in finally.  First off, my wife has always wanted to raise goats someday (land soon as we can, in the city now, chickens only) and I always resisted.  Now... my resistance has evaporated!  I'll just make sure they are leggy, heavy bodied bottle babies!  LOL.

Anyone interested in goats might be interested in a book called Goatwalking by Jim Corbett.  Very interesting book about a man who travels alone in very desolate desert environments by following a small herd of goats and living on their milk, some meat and their insticts for water and food.  It's a fascinating read, leading into some religion/spirituality as well as political activism.  

Just wanted to throw that in the stew.

B

[bob@helleknife.com]

There is some debate in pack goat circles about the best time to nut a goat.

I think the consenses is to wait until they are 4-6 months old.  Goats can get calcium stones and it is best if they just pass through the body.  Goats that are cut early don't develop much diameter in their plumbing and stones can get caught and possibly cause a very painful death.

Lots of folks have operated on their wethers in an attemp to save the goat and the results are questionable.

Bob

[Steertalker]

The technical name for "stones" is urinary calculi or water belly as we say down here.  A feed ration with ammonium chloride in it should prevent it from occuring.  You definitely don't want it to happen because it means certain death.  If it does, put them down.  I don't recommend surgery.

[lcoast]

Started cutting cedar posts for a fence. Gonna build it in sections.

How many square feet per goat in the leanto/barn?

Want to raise some meat kids and start with a couple of packers.

[Santiam]

Stealthy,

 I kinda think you missed the point on packgoats...No leashes...Just that alone makes goats much more appealing to me..I thought about llama's..There are lots of them around here...I just couldn't see myself tied to a bunch of llama's.....

 Stringcutter,

 You tie a line between two trees about 20 yards apart and 10 feet high...Hang a dropper and tie your goat to it...Less tangles that way...Cut them about 3 or 4 months...Bucks can come into full rut as early as 6 months old....They are no fun in rut...  

[String Cutter]

Santiam, At what age do you start putting packs on them to start training? And what kind of pack should I start with for training.... Also, Have you ever seen the reactions of whitetail deer while around your goats when your hunting??? I really like the idea of having a hunting buddy that won't tell anybody about about my misses and will carry pack my gear. sounds like the perfect partner. My only concern is that way the deer will react while I'm in my ground blind and the goats are walking around..... Also, Is it better to get 2 males? Or   1 male and 1 female?? I prefer to get 2 males if they will get along. Thanks again.