Pack Goats???

[lcoast]

The question regarding on the trail feed is a good one. My assumption is packing in feed is not necessary but is probably a kewl idea from the goats perspective??

I have always had a disliking for goats. Owned a milk doe once. After we had her for 2 weeks I bar-b-qued her. I didn't like the milk or the ice cream or anything about her.

Soooo, for my wife and I to get on the goat trail has been a long decision making process. Intellectually I know they are a good idea. Emotionally I have been dragging my feet. I started a year and a half ago researching meat sales. With the new laws Canada is enacting, meat sales are out but meat is going to go way up in price so having an on site source is good. Moving to an area where I have access to moose and mule deer and whitetails would be the best idea, but right now we are here. Probably be smart to go vegetarian but no one ever accused me of being smart yet.  

What breed of goat produces those great horns on the goats in Santiams pictures? Great for tip overlays.

[Santiam]

Keith,

 The key word here is "properly raised and bonded"..

 Just like a dog that has not been raised properly they can be a pain ...I have seen dogs like the goat in your post...Worthless and good for nothing...

 Goats can fend for themselves feed wise...Of course,if you are going to highline them in camp for any length of time a little hay would be handy..

[Steertalker]

Santiam,

You're torturing me with all this great goat talk and cool, cool pictures.  My wife thinks I have absolutely flipped my lid.  But she loves me and knows how much our goats mean to me and how much I love to bowhunt.  Oh man, goats and bowhunting....NIRVANA!!!  Gotta find that Alpine "babe".

Brett

PS:  Going to go off line for a few days to a week.  Office is being remodeled so my computer will be disconnected.  Have a great memorial day weekend

[String Cutter]

Alright we talked about breeds, What to look for in a goat. And even how to get them to the hunt sight. But, What about while you're out there with them and something goes wrong? Like they break a leg Or just refuse to pack anymore after the first 2-3 miles?  How do you get them back up and packing again?How do you fix a leg? Or a split hoof?? How do you know if you packed to much weight on your goat. Can they drink out of only running streams? or are mud holes alright.      Are there any common plants that we should keep them away from?? How do you attach a panner? How tight should it be? How much weight before you need to go to a sattle with the panner?

[Jake H]

Ok, here's a completely silly question:

Do goats 'sentry' like a dog?  Dogs, as is their nature, are usually vocal and active about spotting intruders in 'their' territory?   Do goats do something similar or are they pretty complacent?

In addition to hunting I want to do some long, solo, hiking trips that would include travel through popular/populated areas.   Originally the thought was to bring a dog along as a companion and extra set of sensors at night.  

Packing goats have a lot of advantages (as I'm learning here), but will they pull 'night duty' in the camp when I'm snoozing like a dog would?

I wouldn't want an animal that would bark/start/charge at every shadow of course.  Just one with a little alertness to say 'hey boss, there's something out there that doesn't belong.  Maybe you want to wake up now.'.


Jake
(who is looking forward to having a big enough yard some day)

[KC]

Brett,l've got a mate out in the country l've been sending photos l've been printing of here and he knows of two properties near him that are into goat farming and he now knows are boer goats. What is actually involved in acquiring the semen in the bloodline you want? We are going to see them about the goats anyway,l can't believe Santiam has had it so good for so long without me finding out at that pack goats even existed.l'm normally not slow when it comes to latching on to labour saving measures.
Kevin.

[Santiam]

Kevin,

 My brother thinks they will,  I am not so sure...Goats still retain their wild prey animal instincts and are on alert much of the time..They keep a CLOSE eye on dogs and such...


LOL String Cutter,


 I think you are creating more problems than you will have.You won't have those problems I am sure...

 Goats are desert animals and most times you can't even get them to drink on the trail...Let them drink what and when they want...

 I would suggest buying "Practical Goatpacking" in the link I provided earlier and start studying up...It will cover everything from picking out goats,housing,water,loads ,plants,hunting,transportation...Everything you can think of is in there    

 Now here is a problem..As you can see in the pic,not everything will fit on a goat..

 May you all have such problems    

 
 

[Santiam]

Yeah I know....

  Thats my brother and he is a darksider..

 I am recruting him though and he does have a nice Wapiti takedown..  

[lcoast]

Santiam, I know you posted about bottle feeding for best bonding. But if bottle feeding is not an option, what age would be best to start with? I am now on the hunt for a couple of wethers that are pets and need a new home. I guess i just found out where the word "bellwether" comes from?

I can tell you love your brother even if he is on the darkside.    Heck he's hunting and he is doing it up close and personal. Right on.

[Santiam]

Keith,

  There are lots of goatpackers in Washington..I was going to say keep a eye out down there,but I am not sure what it takes to get a couple goats back across the border...Might be tough..

 I see a pair of Nubian wethers in Hood River, 2 years old for 100 apiece right now on the Yahoo packgoat list...I know I said Nubians were a gamble,but these are raised already...Lot less of a gamble..LOL

 Bonding is fairly important..It doesn't have to be you,just somebody..They will transfer...I would guess it all depends on how the goats were raised that you were looking at...Just see how friendly they are ...

 I think brother Ken is going to use his Wapiti for blacktails this year...Doubt if he will give up his wheels for elk    

  KC,

  I found some goatpackers in Australia...

 Queensland

  www.fordsdalefarmstay.com

[KC]

Thanks Santiam.

Kevin.

[lcoast]

Santiam, thanks again. That is the info I needed. If the bonding will transfer. Dogs will do it.

I don't think I will try any livestock across the border. We are still waiting on a dog we bought 2 years ago in California.  

But I do know there are plenty of people with goat pets here on the Island.

This thread has been great, a real teaching/learning experience and has saved me a lot of time and probably money also.

[bob@helleknife.com]

Goats have vision about 8 times better than ours. And make excellent game spotters.
One of my now deceased goats was a heck of a spotter.  I could always count on his head being just to the left side of me...always looking.


After they have been on the trail for several days you can also see them starting to revert to a feral state.  They quickly become more in tune with nature than you would believe.

As far as "look outs" they are great if you are watching them, you can tell when they have "locked on".  Also, they will bark, when they get scared.

Last year when I was walking up to one of the mountain lakes a fisherman came around a bend and had an inflated  float tub tied on his back.  Looked like a bald yeti (Sasquach)of hugh poportions !  Scared the crap out of one of the boys and had a bit a of goateeo for a while. The other boys were not concerned...they all have their own personalities.

All pack animals can be a bit of a pain at certain times.  Goats have worked best for me and they are just a lot of fun.  Spend as much time with them as you can and you will be rewarded by friendly critters that will take the load off your back.

Bob

Bob

[kybowhntr]

I don't have any pack experience with goats but kept and raised goats for bushhogs. I agree with what Santiam, Bob and others have said on the bonding issue. Even mature goats will bond fairly quick if given a little TLC. They are good watch dogs in the sense that not much gets past there vision.

While I had them, anytime I walked the property as many as 30 made the rounds with me. Never had to do any goat herding....just lead the pack where I wanted them to go.

[Santiam]

I agree ...But there is bonding and there is bonding...

 Down in the bottom of a big hole with 40 pounds of elk aboard is where you see the differance...

 A guy could get along quite well with a field goat that you have been working with... Most of the time....But when you really need him,I mean really need him to do his job...Thats where you see the differance.....

  I have heard of excellant packgoats that have been made out of field goats so one never knows,...I think though that the percentages are with the bottle babies that have been raised by human hands...

 If anybody does get some goats to try it would be interesting to have you report back on your progress...

[kybowhntr]

I agree with ya Satiam. I don't think you could do any better than starting with a kid. Much the same as pup.

[lcoast]

Few years back there was a fellow name of Hank that had a little self sufficiency spread in between Whitehorse and Carcross up in the Yukon. He raised some goats for milking amongst other things. (pigs)

Anyway he had this stinky billy goat which he needed but didn't want around the place whilest he was stinking. So he took him up into the mountains up behind his place and tied him to a boulder in such a fashion that he figured the goat would get loose in awhile but in the meantime Hank would be long gone. His idea was hopefully the goat would be in the area and he would go retrive him after the stink was tamed down.

Anyway, about 3 weeks later he looked up and here came a whole herd of Dall Sheep ewes and lambs right onto his property. And they were following the stinky billy goat.    Dangdest thing.