Pack Goats???

[BunneyHunter]

Keith, ive built goat fencing before adn you want about 6 boards min and put one right on the ground. youd be amazied at what a goat can slip through!

[Steertalker]

String Cutter,

I want to know what Santiam's opinion is, but in my opinion goats and whitetails will not work.  Texas is the #1 producer of goats in the U.S.A. so we have lots of goats.  We also have lots of whitetail (4.5 million plus, I believe).  Now, you may not know this, but in Texas it is legal to hunt deer over feeders which throw corn or protein feed out for the deer to eat.  Deer love corn and so do goats (and sheep).  Where I hunt in West Texas, there are goats everywhere and they coexist with the whitetail deer population.  But if you are unfortunate enough to have goats hanging around the feeders during hunting hours, forget it, you'll never see any deer.  I don't really know why, but they really make a whitetail nervous in close quarters.  So my advice to you is...leave the pack goats in camp tied to a high line when you're out hunting whitetails.  Just thought I'd put my 2 cents in.


Brett

[Steertalker]

Santiam,

I hear ya...gonna start look'n for a long legged alpine "babe" for that bad boy of mine as soon as possible.

Thanks,

Brett

[Santiam]

String Cutter,

 No whitetails around here..Blacktails...But deer are deer...I don't see why you couldn't tie them behind your blind..

 No training to speak of...Goats take to a saddle readily..All mine did the first time I saddled them was to try and turn their head around to see what was back there..No problems there...Just raise them the same way you are going to use them..I took mine fishing,hiking,hunting and just riding in the truck starting at about 2 weeks old..I had them swimming the river on fishing trips trying to keep up...Not much bothers them now...

 Saddle traning will take about 15 minutes...

 You do need to teach them to tie...I built a highline in their pasture and always tied them before giving them a little grain,then leave them tied for several hours at a time...They get used to it after a while and "learn to tie"...

 Yip, get males,then cut them..They will get along just fine...

 If you are thinking on raising your own from bottle babies you are not going to need any saddles or gear for a year or better anyway...They will be 2 years old before you can start putting much weight on ...Then only 25 pounds or so until they are three...Then you can load em up...

 I see you posted on yahoo packgoat list...That is a good place to hang out and learn...Every friday is market day and people list goats and gear that they are selling...Keep a watch on that and you may find something close to you..

  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/packgoat/

 lcoast,

  I built a two room house 16x8 for 5 goats..Plenty of room...Just a oversize dog house..

[lcoast]

Bunney, I hear you. I had a friend who had a small dairey herd.    These guysare gonna be fenced with in a fenced area. My big concern is dogs.

Santiam thanks om building size. I want to be able to do this in installments. Add on as we go if it works out but I don't want to start too small.

I saw that they require about 4 pounds of hay a day . That is cheap feeding.

[String Cutter]

Can you just put them in the back of the truck or how do you do it? Camper shell? Bedding? And is it safe to putt your gear back there with it or will they chew it up???   Also, How hard is it to clip their hooves and what special tools do you need???

[Steertalker]

String Cutter,

In regard to hoof trimming, If you live in a rocky area, your hoof trimming may be minimal.  At any rate you'll need a pair of goat/sheep hoof nippers.  A pair of small hand shears for trimming shrubs will work in a pinch.  However I recommend getting a set of high quality hoof nippers($50-$70).  These can be had from any of the goat supply places.  You should be able to finds these thru the links at  www.abga.org.  

It is easiest to trim hooves when the goats have been standing in a little mud.  This softens them up and makes it easier to cut.  When trimming, always remember to take little cuts.  You can alway take more off, but you can't put it back.  Also, it is real easy to "quick" one so never take to deep a bite.  On the back hooves the bottoms should be trimmed parrallel to the coronary band(the transition from top of hoof to skin/hair).  Blunt the outside toes.  The front hooves should be trimmed similarly except that the outside edge of outside toes should be beveled and blunt both inside toes.

Hoof trimming should be done properly but is not hard.  Remember, you can affect the way a goat walks by the way you trim his hooves.  Learn to do it right and do it often.  I can explain how to do it better over the phone so when you are ready let me know.

Brett

[Steertalker]

String Cutter,

Forgot to address the transportation issue.  Yes you can haul them in the back of PU.  Would recommend getting a "goat-tote" or pickup cage for the back of your PU.  Make sure it has a cover to protect them from the elements.  Try these sites:

 www.sydell.com
 www.roysanders.com
 www.hoeggergoatsupply.com
 www.caprinesupply.com

If you are handy at welding you can build one which is what we did.  I don't recommend putting your gear in with them cause they will chew on it.  Hope all this helps.

Brett

[Santiam]

I was using my wifes horse trailer ,but it seemed that every time I wanted it,so did she...

 I built some pick-up racks that I use for short trips or if I am just taking a couple goats...

 Last winter I bought a old trailer that a guy was using to haul 4 wheelers..A little cutting and welding later and I built a goat trailer...I also have racks along the sides that I store all my saddles and gear...

 Goats learn fast...They see me hooking up the trailer and they head for the gate,ready to go...Most of the time all I have to do is open the gate and they head for the trailer and load themselves up...Every now and then though I have to run interferance for the roses..LOL

 I have 8 elk preferance points this year and I am planning on using them up for The Walla Walla unit in Oregon...Only 20 tags total and I have enough points to draw...

 I am planning on taking 3 goats...One loaded down with military MRE's and water...One loaded down with camp gear(sleeping bag ,tarps ect) and more water....

 The third  with game bags,spotting scope and whatever else I think I need...I am going to load them fairly light for mobility,but with three goats even lightly loaded my bivy hunt will be fairly luxurious..They will mainly be used for packing out..(hopefuly)

 I am going to drop off in those steep and deep holes that country is famous for and just go hunting...No base camp to hunt back to or set up,just hunt till dark and bivy where I end up...

   Its gonna be a blast        

   

[JC]

Santiam, you need a "caddy" to tote your arras?    Does sound like a dream trip to me.

Joe

[Steertalker]

Santiam,

I  told my wife about all this goat business and she thinks I have definitely gone off the deep end.  Maybe it's a mid-life crisis.  Man, you have definitely got me pumped.  With all the goats I have there has got to be a future "packer" out there.  Just got to find that "Alpine babe".  BAAAAA BAAAAA

[String Cutter]

That sounds like a dream hunt to me too...Maybe some day??? But for now I guess I'll have to be happy hunting good size white tails. And just pretend that they're elk.... This thread has gotten pretty long and there is alot of good info. on it . I hope a few other guys here will get into it on the east coast. Man , we don't even know what we've been missing.... It will be nice to back 4-5 miles away from all the road hunter. And hunt in confort to boot. Anybody fromthe east coast interested in going on a hunt next year> Hackbow you there??

[Santiam]

Brett & String cutter

  Sometimes when I am out with my goats I wonder why more bowhunters don't have a couple...A handier critter you will not find..

 Then again,sometimes I think I should keep my mouth shut before I find other "goatpackers" in my honey holes      

 Good luck to you guys and look for my hunting report towards the end of sept.  

[Steertalker]

Santiam,

I agree with you about the goats.  They are really neat animals and I just love the heck out of mine.  Gods speed to ya this September.  Look'n forward to the reports and hopefully more goat pictures(hauling out an elk)!!

Brett

[lcoast]

This thread has been very informative. Thanks for getting it rolling String Cutter. And thanks for all the pics and information from you goat pro's.

Wife and I had been toying with the idea of some meat goats for a while now and this packing thread sort of tops it off for us.

[String Cutter]

Lcoast, It sure is nice to have guys like these to help us out. The info I got here alone on this thread would have taken me months if not years to find out by myself. And probably a few mistakes of spending money and time for the wrong things. If there's anything else you need to know, I guess now would be the time to ask it. While we git 'em here to help. Like do you need to carry any feed for the goats on a 4-5 day hunt or will they be totally O.K. Just living off the land?  What do you do if you're packing and the goat just gives up and won't go any farther? Or if it breaks a leg??

[Bpaul]

"Last winter I bought a old trailer that a guy was using to haul 4 wheelers"

And now you use it to haul YOUR four wheelers    

sorry, couldn't resist.

This thread is fantastic, thanks to all participating.  Hoping it goes into the archives.

B

[KC]

Hey, don't you blokes stop now,there has to be heaps more info. you haven't divulged yet.
Kevin.

[Steertalker]

KC,

You should have all kinds of resources in Australia for goats.  Some of the finest boers in the world have been exported out of there.  Man, I would really like to get my hands on some semen from there or South Africa so I could AI my "babes".  Anyway, I am willing to help in anyway I can.  Sounds like Santiam and Bob are the "pack goat" men.  I am raising a small herd of registered full blood and percentage boers for breeding and show, but am really interested in turning some of my "not show quality" wethers into packers for elk hunting.  Anyway, I love goats and am always trying to convert others to them.

Brett

[Santiam]

Brett is right,goats are cool...

 A properly bonded and raised packgoat will remind you more of a dog than a pack animal...For some reason goats have a stigma about them...A stereo type of stinky, nasty creatures...Hardly the truth..

 Goats are friendly,loyal, hard working animals that LIKE people....Same as a dog does...

 For those that are thinking of trying goats,

 1- Bottle raise for proper bonding or find adults that have been properly raised..

 2-No training,just handle them the same way you are going to use them...Take them hiking,hunting,just take them...In fact,just raise them like you would the family dog...
(except don't let them in the house LOL)

 3- Buy a book,get some goats and learn as you go...If you have babies you will have plenty of time...

 4- If you can't find pack goat breeders in your area,you should be able to find goat dairies...My best goat Petey came from a Alpine dairy near here.Not a breeder....

 Brett, being from Texas I would imagine you got lots of quail....This is my brother and his Alpine "Happy" quail hunting..He also has packgoats..

 No ,the goats didn't point or fetch,but they are pretty handy carring lunch and cold refreshments..    :D    

 I have 5 and he has 4...9 goats between us...We can pack a heck of a load if we have to      

 If you notice from the pictures I have posted...No ropes or leashes and the goats are always close...Thats what seperates goats from the other pack animals... They have an unseen bond with you and you don't have to worry about them...You look back and they are always there..

 Sometimes I will play a dirty trick on them...They will find a particular bush tasty and will lag just a little behind..When they are busy with the bush and not looking I will hide behind a tree and watch...

 Soon one will look up to see where I am and when they don't see me I tell you they about have a heart attack..They come bounding up the trail with a look of desperation on their face that will make you laugh out loud..

 And the relief on their face when they finally spot me...


 Priceless!!!