Pack Goats???

[bob@helleknife.com]

Opps...

Wethers, castated males are what most folks use for packing.

If you can find a big doe whose udders aren't so hugh that they get in the way of off-trail work you can have fresh milk if that suits you.

Bob

[Santiam]

Hello Bob,

 Are you doing any thinking for a goat pack into Mink Lake Basin this June?? How busy are you going to be??

 I use packgoats..Packgoats are freedom...No leashes,no train...They take care of themselves...Here in Western Oregon Llamas would work Ok if you were to stay on the trails or the roads,but cross country would be out of the question...All I have to do is figure out how I am going to get through.The goats do their own figuring...

 As far as how much they can pack...I have boned out a back ham from a 5 point bull and put it on one goat..His brother got the the other one...I didn't weigh the loads but they made it out 3 miles with no trouble...I know it was better on them than on me...LOL

 What makes goats so cool is that they are hunting companions instead of beasts of burden...Even for hunts near home I may take a couple goats,load them up with lunch and WATER (stealthy)and go hunting....They just follow along munching on the brush...They never let you out of their sight...They don't hurt anything that I can see while hunting...Two goats can pack one deer...4 can take one elk (boned out) with me helping with my pack...

I have three Alpines and 2 Oberhasli/Lemanche crosses..

 I'll try to post a couple pics this weekend..

 

 I'll try and post a couple pics this weekend...

[bob@helleknife.com]

Bill,

Just really been busy and have had several other things pop up so I have had a very low profile recently.

Will try to make the 19th; you will be there?  By mid June I will be ready for a two day get-a-way.

Lets stay in touch!

Bob

[lcoast]

Hey guys, what about packs? Are they just a dog pack? You buy them or make them? Pics?

Thanks

[Stealthycat]

The saddles are called "soft saddles" - the ones I have are home made and pretty solid. Custom saddles of aluminum can be had but they're pricey ! The saddle bags - apnniers - are canvas although the guy I bought my llamas from used a rope system and ice coolers and as odd as it sounds it worked good for him.

[lcoast]

Thanks Stealthycat.

I found this site as well:

 http://www.northwestpackgoats.com/

They have a saddle kit that looks like a good place to start.

I really am interested in this goat thing. I know of a couple of areas that have good deer but I won't hunt them because of the climb out. Just the thought of packing meat out of them makes me wanna go back to bed.  

[Vance in AK.]

After a couple of things that were said I have to stick up for Llamas for a minute.  Not putting goats down at all mind you.
When I lived in Montana we ended up with 5 Llamas.  All were from different sources & we didn't raise any from birth.  None were trained to pack before we got them.
In the 3 yrs we messed with them, I was never kicked, & those I know that have been have never had more than a bruise, because a Llama has a soft foot pad like a dog, not a hoof.
I will admit I've been spit on.  For some reason he didn't like me shoving the tube in his mouth & giving him wormer.  Can't say I blame him.  Stuff tasted awful!  The only other times I was spit on were not directed toward me.  The Llamas were having a dispute & I happened to walk between them.
They learned to pack very quickly.
A friend had pack horses, & was amazed at how the Llamas got along in the woods.
The Llamas would practically gain weight hanging out in camp all day just eating bear grass & pine needles.  Had to take supplemental feed for the horses.  The Llamas would also go plases a horse couldn't.   I didn't find them to be stubborn, & they are very trainable.
Like goats, Llamas a Llama that's in shape(just like people they need to get in shape too) will haul around 1/3 of it's body weight.
With mine that was 120 lbs. each.
If I had a place for them I'd have them here in Alaska too.
All that said, I'm sure goats do the job too, it just takes a couple more.
Vance in AK.

[Santiam]

[bob@helleknife.com]

Bill,

Good Photo.

Also, for best results you need to have a sawbuck, attach the panniners to the 'bucks.

Because of their bone structure a "soft" pack is only good for lite loads.

The Northwest packgoat saw buck is a good deal.  I own several of them.  Also, look here for an aluminum sawbuck.

 www.owyheepackgoatsupplies.com

Bob

[bob@helleknife.com]

[lcoast]

Great pic Satiam. And Bob thanks for the extra link for packs saddles etc.

The sawbuck is attractive to me because we used them on horses when I guided.

Sure glad this topic came up, I am getting quite intrigued with the idea.

Vance have you heard Llamas doing the humming thing in the barn at night?

[Vance in AK.]

I have Kieth.  I used to love to go sit out by their leanto just after dark & listen to them & the night birds.
I miss my Llamas & Montana.  I guess Alaska is a good second though.    
Vance in AK.

[KC]

Thanks to everyone for their imput,l've never had a yearning to own goats till now. l've been following the thread and it's the most fascinating subject l've heard in a long time.l now need a place to live with room for 4 or 5 goats,l'm going to have to make a lot more shafts than l'm doing now to afford it. l wonder if l'll live that long.
Kevin.

[sharps4590]

We had a neighbor when we lived in Wyoming who used goats exclusively.  He wasn't an outfitter and had them for himself, his wife and whatever friend he wanted to take along.  They had a string of 7 goats and Rick loves them.  The wife and/or I fed and watered them when they were gone.  Their goats were certainly friendly enough and I know compared to horses they are a LOT more economical.  I know that from experience!  The cheapest thing about a horse is buying it!

Vic

[Tradman]

Stringcutter- while I don't have any experience training them as pack animals, I can certainly offer advice on how/where to find a good young prospect.  My husband and I also raise meat goats commercially, and find them not only easy to care for, but easily trained.  While we raise primarily boer goats and boer goat crosses, we find that a boer x nubian gives you alot more leg.  As mentioned above, you want to avoid using a dairy breed nanny as their udder can become quite pendulous and will get torn easily (even by the nanny's own hooves when she stands). The best time to get a young kid is in the spring, during the spring kidding season.  The market is usually flooded with unwanted "bottle babies" then (usually kids who were orphaned, or pulled off their mothers for other reasons).  Most commercial goat producers don't want to bother with the time or expense involved in raising a bottle baby and will let them go for almost nothing.  If you only have one or two(and a willing child to help feed), bottle babies are easy to care for needing to be bottle fed only 2-3 times daily and the formula can be made easily from milk, evap milk and buttermilk.  A bottle baby will bond to you better than an older kid would, and will follow you everywhere (I've had to quick several out of the living room after they followed me in the front door).  If you're seriously interested in finding someone in your area to buy a kid from, there are several goat talk bulletin boards that you could post to. Heck, if you want to drive down to OK, we'll have some this fall and again in the spring that I'd let you have just so I wouldn't have to haul them to the sale barn.  (Matt even tried sending a few home with some of our hunters last winter). Let us know how you do!

Steertalker, where abouts in Texas are you?  We've got a commercial herd of about 130 head right now of boer cross does,and about 20 fullbloods that are being bred to a Pistolero son as I type this.  We're always looking for good does to add to our commercial herd, but there just isn't nearly the selection up here as there is down in Texas.  

-Cheryl Napper/Shiloh Ranch

[String Cutter]

I'm In the middle of moving right now.  And told my wife that I was thinking of getting a few goats to keep the feilds behind the house cleaned up. Well , she said no. But I guess if I keep working at it. She'll give in in a couple of months. When it's nothing but 2 acres of brush. I ain't going to cutt it!!!! I also found out that the fence going around the feilds is electric. From where the guy owned horses  before us. But It's only about 4.5-5 ft tall. I had some other  q?????? #1 What is the best place to get info on the care of the goats? I want them to be health and pets first and with any luck pack animals.   #2What is the best cross breeds to use. I know That I need long leggs,weathers, and a large body But what crossings will give me this. and how can I know this if I get a bottle feed?  I've found dozens of goat breeders within a couple of hours drive from me. And decided to go with a boear for the large body size but don't know what I'm looking for it to be crossed with to get the heigth???

[Santiam]

Wow,   Lots of questions..Any of the dairy breeds or crosses make good packgoats..

Alpine

Toggenburg

Sannan

Oberhasli

Lemanche

 Many cross one of these breeds with Boer...I think just plain ol Alpines are hard to beat myself..

 I have never been around Nubians but most goatpackers steer clear of this breed..They have a reputation for being noisy and even lazy should the going get tough..Probably better to not take a chance on raising a Nubian just to be dissapointed 2 years later..
 Here is a link that can answer some of your questions.

  http://home.comcast.net/~edelweissacres/ewacres5.htm

 One thing to remember..Packgoats are "raised" not trained..They are taken from their mother at birth and bottle raised...They then become bonded and associate people as the herd leader...Thats why they follow so well...As long as you are the "herd leader" they will follow even if the going gets tough...It is possible to make a packgoat out of a goat that has not been bottle raised and he may make a fair packgoat...But without the proper bonding he could quit on you should the loads get heavy and the terrain steep...My three bottle babies have never quit and they have been on some tough ones..There is no quit in them...

 Goats were the second animal domesticated behind the dog...The nomadic tribes of the middle east have been packing with goats well before the horse was domesticated...

 They have a long tradition and a strong work ethic..

 Goats have horns...

 Llamas do not...
  :D

[String Cutter]

Thank you all for the info. But does anyone here on the east coast (Va.) use pack goats in the mountains George Washington National Forrest? And If so would you be willing to show me the ins and outs of using Pack goats. I'm more of a show me once kind of guy. I have no Idea how to pack a goat , clip hooves, things to do and not to do..Ect. I really think I'm going to get one before the year is up. It will really help me make the hunt more enjoyable.

[Steertalker]

Tradman,

We are located in Midland, TX (West Texas).  Our blood lines come mostly out of the Powell-Holman operation including, but not limited to, the grandfather of Bingo.  About half are full blood south african and the rest percentage(3/4 and up).  We are currently looking for a new full blood south african buck...Pistolero genetics would be good.

[KC]

G'day string,lf you wind up with one,l'd like to know how you go.Why didn't somebody let me in on this goat thing twenty years ago? l might have reach the level of reasonably competent goat packer by now,then again,maybe not.

Kevin.