INFO: Trad Archery for Bowhunters



Author Topic: Wind deflection on arrows  (Read 2148 times)

Offline henpeckedmuch

  • Trad Bowhunter
  • **
  • Posts: 21
Re: Wind deflection on arrows
« Reply #20 on: January 27, 2006, 09:24:00 PM »
Actually, I was using a problem in physics. Where a 150 gr. bullet is droped from the same height and at the same instant that a 30-06 bullet of the same weight is fired from the level. The bullets will hit the ground at the same instant and the wind will have the same effect on them. Because they are in the air the same amount of time and the wind reacts at the same pressure on them. In our case the archery target will not be flat on the ground and therefore the arrow shot will not be falling as far unless the bow is elevated for the long shot as Shoot08 states.

Offline Aaron Proffitt

  • Trad Bowhunter
  • **
  • Posts: 76
Re: Wind deflection on arrows
« Reply #21 on: January 27, 2006, 09:33:00 PM »
No surprise here,but...not sure I follow you.

As if I should have to 'splain it again;imagine 'splaining ice to a pygmy,hpm.  :(    :)    ;)    :rolleyes:  
(sigh)Really wish I woulda studied physics. Who knew !?
"First thing we do,let's kill all the lawyers".
Shakespeare Henry VI, Part 2

Does an agnostic,dyslexic,insomniac lie awake at night wondering if there really is a Dog ?

Offline henpeckedmuch

  • Trad Bowhunter
  • **
  • Posts: 21
Re: Wind deflection on arrows
« Reply #22 on: January 27, 2006, 09:36:00 PM »
Hey! I can shoot the wings off a fly at 15-20 yds but, you know what last shoot I went to i missed a full size elk broad side at 25yds. I missed it twice! I couldn't believe it when I missed it the first time so I asked the guy I was shooting with to let me try again.---It must have been the wind or a twig, or something maybe it was physics!
  If it was always easy we would lose interest....

Offline Aaron Proffitt

  • Trad Bowhunter
  • **
  • Posts: 76
Re: Wind deflection on arrows
« Reply #23 on: January 27, 2006, 09:47:00 PM »
True,true !  :thumbsup:
"First thing we do,let's kill all the lawyers".
Shakespeare Henry VI, Part 2

Does an agnostic,dyslexic,insomniac lie awake at night wondering if there really is a Dog ?

Offline FLHunter

  • Trad Bowhunter
  • **
  • Posts: 52
Re: Wind deflection on arrows
« Reply #24 on: January 27, 2006, 09:52:00 PM »
I usually blame missing on the rotation of the earth it moved the target     :bigsmyl:     Basically all objects fall at the same rate barring other factors like drag, and are effected the same in the wind.
Aim Hard!

Offline Aaron Proffitt

  • Trad Bowhunter
  • **
  • Posts: 76
Re: Wind deflection on arrows
« Reply #25 on: January 27, 2006, 09:53:00 PM »
terminal velocity ?
"First thing we do,let's kill all the lawyers".
Shakespeare Henry VI, Part 2

Does an agnostic,dyslexic,insomniac lie awake at night wondering if there really is a Dog ?

Offline FLHunter

  • Trad Bowhunter
  • **
  • Posts: 52
Re: Wind deflection on arrows
« Reply #26 on: January 27, 2006, 10:04:00 PM »
You don't want to go there, drag coefficients and such.  How good is your algebra?
Aim Hard!

Offline Aaron Proffitt

  • Trad Bowhunter
  • **
  • Posts: 76
Re: Wind deflection on arrows
« Reply #27 on: January 27, 2006, 10:07:00 PM »
:scared:    :scared:    :scared:                                                                                                                      I'm done !!   "[tunglaff]"      "[tunglaff]"   You are absolutely correct, SIR !!   :)
"First thing we do,let's kill all the lawyers".
Shakespeare Henry VI, Part 2

Does an agnostic,dyslexic,insomniac lie awake at night wondering if there really is a Dog ?

Offline Leland

  • Trad Bowhunter
  • **
  • Posts: 668
Re: Wind deflection on arrows
« Reply #28 on: January 29, 2006, 12:04:00 AM »
I know some 3D shooters who have an arrow in their quiver just for windy moments,it's a heavier shaft with smaller fletching.Seams to work well.

Offline Aaron Proffitt

  • Trad Bowhunter
  • **
  • Posts: 76
Re: Wind deflection on arrows
« Reply #29 on: January 29, 2006, 03:28:00 PM »
That's an interesting idea,Leland !
"First thing we do,let's kill all the lawyers".
Shakespeare Henry VI, Part 2

Does an agnostic,dyslexic,insomniac lie awake at night wondering if there really is a Dog ?

Offline FLHunter

  • Trad Bowhunter
  • **
  • Posts: 52
Re: Wind deflection on arrows
« Reply #30 on: January 29, 2006, 04:10:00 PM »
Sorry wrong answer!  It doesn't make any difference!   :knothead:     :banghead:    :banghead:    :banghead:      Heavy arrow small fletchings, or light arrow big fletchings will drift at the same rate as the wind.  A heavier arrow is going to be effected more because its slower out of the bow more time airborne to the target.  Why would you want to change arrows in the middle of a 3-D tournament?  YIKES!     "[nope]"
Aim Hard!

Offline Leland

  • Trad Bowhunter
  • **
  • Posts: 668
Re: Wind deflection on arrows
« Reply #31 on: January 29, 2006, 04:29:00 PM »
I guess it's kinda like the boat thing,it takes a stronger current to move a heavy boat than it does a lighter one.

Offline Aaron Proffitt

  • Trad Bowhunter
  • **
  • Posts: 76
Re: Wind deflection on arrows
« Reply #32 on: January 29, 2006, 07:21:00 PM »
:scared:    :scared:    :scared:  
And again FLHunter rains an yet another parade.  "[tunglaff]"
"First thing we do,let's kill all the lawyers".
Shakespeare Henry VI, Part 2

Does an agnostic,dyslexic,insomniac lie awake at night wondering if there really is a Dog ?

Offline FLHunter

  • Trad Bowhunter
  • **
  • Posts: 52
Re: Wind deflection on arrows
« Reply #33 on: January 30, 2006, 10:30:00 AM »
Leland,

If your boat or arrow was powered then maybe yes.  However, an arrow is not powered in its flight its launched.  So if the current is 10 mph thats the rate that the heavy boat will drift at, the same for the light one.  Samething for arrows!  

Aaron, no not raining on any parade, just bad assumptions.  After flying around the world for about 30 years both as a military and civilian pilot I have some experience with wind drift powered or otherwise.

Aaron and Leland the information that O.L. Adcock, myself and others have shared with you is correct.  Go back and review what we have told you. If you don't believe us then the same information is easily referenced in books of navigation and physics.  Basic science.
Aim Hard!

Offline JC

  • Moderator
  • Trad Bowhunter
  • ***
  • Posts: 4466
Re: Wind deflection on arrows
« Reply #34 on: January 30, 2006, 11:13:00 AM »
Just curious FL, you same the shaft with small feathers will drift the same....but wouldn't the increased surface area increase the resistance the wind could place on the arrow causing the arrow to yaw more....thereby changing impact to a greater degree? i.e., a bigger sail will outrun a smaller sail on the same boat.
"Being there was good enough..." Charlie Lamb reflecting on a hunt
TGMM Brotherhood of the Bow

Offline FLHunter

  • Trad Bowhunter
  • **
  • Posts: 52
Re: Wind deflection on arrows
« Reply #35 on: January 30, 2006, 11:31:00 AM »
JC,

The problem we are getting into here is mixing apples and grapes to some extent.  

In your example the with the shafts being the same with a different sized fletching. Yes, they will drift at the same rate.  However, the arrow with the most drag(larger fletch) will weathervane or windcock first given enough time airborne to become more streamlined.

On the second part about the same boats with different sized sails, you now have powered craft which changes things. Yes, the boat with the larger sail should out run the boat with the smaller sail.  Remember that the boats would now be under windpower and would be generally steered to a course.  Its now an issue of how much power(sail area)and controlling the sail.  
This is different than a projectile being launched into free flight like an arrow given an initial trajectory no additional imputs other than wind factors.

This can get more complicated if you take the senerio of both boats not being steered but just drifting.  Then you have several factors involved,  the current of the water and the direction of the wind which would probably be different.  The boat with the greater sail area would drift faster because of the larger sail area given hulls drag in the water would be equal.  The direction of drift of each boat would probably be somewhat different because of the resulting vector from the two currents and the difference of the sail areas.

YIKES my head hurts!    :banghead:
Aim Hard!

Offline JC

  • Moderator
  • Trad Bowhunter
  • ***
  • Posts: 4466
Re: Wind deflection on arrows
« Reply #36 on: January 30, 2006, 12:23:00 PM »
So the most drag (larger fletch) "weathervaning" isn't the same as "drift"....I think this is where the semantics might come into play. Wouldn't this "weathervaning" change impact to a greater degree than the small fletched arrow...in essence, making it look like it drifted further off course?

So while the "drift" may technically be equal, the arrow with the larger fletching is effected, in total, by wind to a greater degree?
"Being there was good enough..." Charlie Lamb reflecting on a hunt
TGMM Brotherhood of the Bow

Offline FLHunter

  • Trad Bowhunter
  • **
  • Posts: 52
Re: Wind deflection on arrows
« Reply #37 on: January 30, 2006, 12:55:00 PM »
JC,

The arrow maybe weathervaned, but the tips should be at the same impact point.
Since an arrow is not in flight that long I doubt your going to see much difference in the weathervaning except at greater ranges.  If you think about it the only difference is the amount of time it would take the arrow larger fletch to windvane into the on coming wind.

Put things into perspective: for example a compound shooting an arrow at 250fps to a 20yd target takes 0.24 of a second.  A trad bow at 180 fps to 20yds takes 0.333 of a second.  Not much difference in the time to target.  So its not going to windvane that much more in nine hundredths of a second.
Aim Hard!

Offline O.L. Adcock

  • Trad Bowhunter
  • **
  • Posts: 824
Re: Wind deflection on arrows
« Reply #38 on: January 30, 2006, 01:06:00 PM »
FlHunter, Yep, with a 4mph cross wind, that .09 seconds is 3" side drift.....O.L.
---Six NAA/FITA National and World flight records.----

Offline JC

  • Moderator
  • Trad Bowhunter
  • ***
  • Posts: 4466
Re: Wind deflection on arrows
« Reply #39 on: January 30, 2006, 01:44:00 PM »
Hmmm...but it just doesn't make sense that the increased force (because of the larger "sail area") on that vector (the rear of the arrow perpendicular to the direction of the wind) wouldn't cause a noticable difference in impact point. The larger feathers would have to be included in the overall surface area calculation which would effect the drift computation it would seem. And I was thinking more like 15-20mph, not 4....you can really see stuff slide off the map when the wind is blowin past 10mph. You fellers are gonna make me pull out my ol HP and go to calculating force on surface area aintcha   "[tunglaff]"  

From a feller who hasn't used engineering since he left school....what am I missing here?
"Being there was good enough..." Charlie Lamb reflecting on a hunt
TGMM Brotherhood of the Bow

Users currently browsing this topic:

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
 

Contact Us | Trad Gang.com © | User Agreement

Copyright 2003 thru 2019 ~ Trad Gang.com ©