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Author Topic: What we don't know  (Read 3094 times)

Offline Littlefeather

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What we don't know
« on: June 29, 2006, 03:53:00 PM »
I've seen an enormous amount of threads and articles over the years reguarding target panic. This issue recently stimulated conversation between Charlie Lamb and myself. I had no idea what target panic was and had even less of an idea that Charlie and I had the same outlook on this issue. See, I have always avoided the issue with fear that if I opened and read about it I would be all the more likely to contract this dreaded disease, Target Panic! Then if I had a bad day of shooting as we all do, I'd immediately panic that I'd contracted "Target Panic" even though I'd know deep down that we all have off days and off weeks, etc... In the days of old there was no such thing as "target panic". It did not exist. Like many things, the "disease" was born and all of a sudden everyone had been strickened with this crippling disease. Somehow it never existed until someone mysteriously contracted it, named it, and started transmitting it. Understand, I have no clue what this disease is nor do I wish to know. I have good days and I have bad days of shooting. I cannot hit a target to save my life but I'll shoot the heart out of a critter almost every time. Oh my gosh, maybe I contracted the dreaded disease! Nawwwww, I know deep down that I just don't have a care in the world if I can hit a mark on a hay bale so Im sure my failure to shoot the ring is all in my subconscience lack of desire. If I don't have the concentration to shoot the target, I won't hit what I aim at. My fear these days is that we are spreading this "disease" to others by simply showcasing it. I think this happens because so many archers are looking for the reason they shoot bad and it seems to be an easy diagnosis where the archer is constantly trying to "cure" hisself instead of relaxing, concentrating, and shooting without a thought process. Just be the "Force" Luke!  

Charlie's take was almost exactly as mine on this issue. He said he'd never heard of it so he started reading articles, etc., reguarding this much dreaded disease. Low and behold he immediately contracted it and it took years to overcome this terrible problem. Is this a real issue that existed since the dawn of time or is this really an issue that has been created in the last decade in the minds of men? I'm not quite sure but it seemingly strikes others just by reading about it. It also seems to be one hell of a growing epidemic that I see everywhere I go. I guess I've been really lucky that I've just got bad shooting habbits and not the dreaded "Target Panic". See, without a disease, I have nothing to cure but my inability to hit what I do not truly concentrate on. I suppose the jest of this thread was really to say " what we don't know, sometime is actually the best cure for what we do not already have". Yall beware when preaching about this disease. Seems some of the threads and stories on the cures are actually carriers for this disease. Just a rant, nothing more. Have a good day and watch out for ugly diseases.  CK

Offline Emmons

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Re: What we don't know
« Reply #1 on: June 29, 2006, 04:31:00 PM »
That is exactly what Barry Wensel explains in "The Sprit of the Bow".  I have been shooting bows (trad and wheels) for about 25 years now and I don't know what Target panics and I don't want to know what it is.  Writen or practical.

Offline woodsman

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Re: What we don't know
« Reply #2 on: June 29, 2006, 05:38:00 PM »
You're entitled to an opinion..

But calling open discussion on a cure/prevention a carrier for the disease and nothing more than a rant is disappointing.  I hope you never experience it and if you do other don't make light of it.

Chris

Offline dosbow56

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Re: What we don't know
« Reply #3 on: June 29, 2006, 05:38:00 PM »
thanks ALOT curtis, now i think i have it just from reading your thread......  :readit:  i never even thought about it til now....thanks alot curtis.......  "[tunglaff]"  
dave
"We watch our arrows fly. We watch our friends' arrows fly. We can't wait 'til the next one flies. It's as though we were watching through a child's eyes the same marvelous magic trick over and over."
Dean Torges "Hunting the Osage Bow"

Offline Littlefeather

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Re: What we don't know
« Reply #4 on: June 29, 2006, 05:51:00 PM »
Chris, The rant statment was aimed at what "I" said, not others. Also, reread. Im not trying to shed bad light on what you obviously believe is a very real disease. Im saying "what you don't mentally know exists, does not exist"! There was no such thing as Target Panic 30 years ago. Why now does everyone suddenly have it? Whatever it is obviously is mental. Best cure is to free yourself of the mental fear that you have a disease. If you believe strongly enough that the disease exists, you'll certainly contract it. Once you think you have it, then you in turn must believe you have to find some cure to rid yourself of it. See? Stimulate your archery with positive thoughts, not fear of missing. It truly is that simple. CK

Offline UKarcher

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Re: What we don't know
« Reply #5 on: June 30, 2006, 06:03:00 AM »
I have to agree with Curtis on this one. Here is an example from another window. Some years ago my then sister in law became agoraphobic. About six months after that, my exwife broke her toe. The stress from that brought on... yep, agoraphobia. It took us four years to get her to start going out of the house again. You may say in this case that it was hereditory, but the fact that it happened within six months of each other suggests to me that it was just that, suggestion.
I'm not saying that TP does not exist, just that because it is talked about so much now, there has to be an element of auto suggestion involved in contracting it. I coach a compound shooter who is just about dealing with it, but it would have made my job easier if we knew how to prevent it rather than try to cure it.
Graham

Online Yohon

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Re: What we don't know
« Reply #6 on: June 30, 2006, 07:57:00 AM »
"Understand, I have no clue what this disease is nor do I wish to know".Gimmie a break CK..looks like you know something about it if you spent all that time printing all this on it   :rolleyes:      "There was no such thing as Target Panic 30 years ago." Got a bunch of my Dads old Archery mags from the 60's that talked alot about it. Even got a video of Fred Bear talkin about his battles with it.

Having a bad shooting day(for lots of different reasons) and target panic are 2 different things.Target panic is pretty generic term for lack of control, not much to do with hit/miss although with no control you do miss alot.

"I think this happens because so many archers are looking for the reason they shoot bad and it seems to be an easy diagnosis where the archer is constantly trying to "cure" hisself instead of relaxing, concentrating, and shooting without a thought process. Just be the "Force" Luke!" That was a good explanation, especially the shooting without a thought process, but you had to go and use "the force"   :rolleyes:   I dont know a single good shooter who used "the force" so to speak to shot well. I know alot of shooters that are looking "for the force"...have it one day gone the next...good shooters have that complete thought process with a goal of shooting EVERY arrow with repeatable, controlled accuracy so that they can hit that bale shot that you care little about BUT can also deliver a broadhead thru the heart of a screaming bull elk.


"Once you think you have it, then you in turn must believe you have to find some cure to rid yourself of it. See? Stimulate your archery with positive thoughts, not fear of missing. It truly is that simple." Simple yes...easy NO. Positive training is the answer and the reason its not easy is most are not willing to do the hard WORK it takes to train and use that positive training that promotes a good shot process and eliminates that loss of control.


Sorry about my rant but you hit a cord    :thumbsup:
"Take the time to take your time and enjoy the trip." Mike Bolin

Offline JC

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Re: What we don't know
« Reply #7 on: June 30, 2006, 08:10:00 AM »
Whew...I think you guys are reading too much into this. I think he has a valid point here, but if you don't agree, don't act like he killed yer dog   "[tunglaff]"  

I certainly believe this dreaded beast that attacks many archers is all in our head. It may have little or nothing to do with physical issues, as I have known some very good archers with excellent form to "catch" it.

I think Curtis's point, at least as I read it, is about denying the negativity of TP, therefore it has no control over you. Positive mental reinforcement has been scientifically proven to improve performance in numerous sports...and even physical health. Have you tried beating TP by believing it doesn't exist?    :rolleyes:   Something to think about....
"Being there was good enough..." Charlie Lamb reflecting on a hunt
TGMM Brotherhood of the Bow

Offline painthorse

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Re: What we don't know
« Reply #8 on: June 30, 2006, 08:29:00 AM »
I,ve had this.I could throw an arrow by hand better than I could shoot it.I was going to walk away but instead I picked up 2 nutters and headed to the woods.Started out shooting big targets,now i'm shooting leaves off of trees.
Whats the point of this ramble? In my case the 3d targets was forceing me into looking at the whole target and not picking a spot.When i'm stumping i'm hunting.Walking through the woods looking for something to kill.
I do not think I will go back to 3d targets.People have asked what are you going to do when a deer walks by,looks like a 3d target? I'll cross that bridge when I get there but i'm confident in my shot now so I'll drag that deer to the truck.
Don't know if this will help but it helped me.
Thanks for letting me ramble.
Scott

Offline Littlefeather

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Re: What we don't know
« Reply #9 on: June 30, 2006, 09:45:00 AM »
JC's perception of what I was saying is absolutely correct. I reread what I wrote in my original post this morning and realized that what I have said may sound like bashing. Absolutely not so!!!

I truly know nothing about this whole issue except what Charlie explained to me. After hearing a little about what it supposedly is, I knew immediately that I didn't even want to think on it. Even more so I want guys who don't have whatever "Target Panic" is to contract it. I feel if a shooter as good as Charlie can contract such a thing as TP just by reading about it, then are we not spreading it by constantly showcasing it. Im just saying that if the whole issue is totally a mental issue, it can and will be transferred to others simply by constantly highlighting it. Overcomming mental issues are no doubt horrible. The up side is that they are cureably totally through changing a thought process. Im not sure why anyone would fear missing but worse things are feared I suppose.

To fail is lifes greatest teacher.
To accept failure is lifes greatest tragety.

Good luck overcomming this thing! CK

Offline Van/TX

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Re: What we don't know
« Reply #10 on: June 30, 2006, 08:33:00 PM »
Quote
 There was no such thing as Target Panic 30 years ago .  
Wrong.  There were many technical articles on the subject long before 30 years ago.  It was called "It".  Compounders re-named it "Target Panic"....Van
Retired USAF (1966 - 1989)
Retired DoD Civilian (1989 - 2009)
And drawing Social Security!
I love this country ;-)

Offline BillyBobHowdieVern

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Re: What we don't know
« Reply #11 on: June 30, 2006, 09:03:00 PM »
i'm with curtis on this. i dont have TP but i do have bad days shooting. i have always heard the term buck fever but i dont know what that is either. sure i've missed some seemingly easy shots but i have made some that also so very hard. some people wold say that missing a doe at 10 yards was TP or BF i say poor consentration others would say bagging a squirel with a head shot at 15 yards was a hard shot but i feel it goes back to aim small miss small. seems like TP has more to do mentally with the score in the archers head (gotta hit that X ring for a top score) i shoot 3-d but i dont judge my hunting ability on my 3-d scores cuz i know that the targets arent real and alot of times i will shoot at the 3-d when in real life i wouldnt take the shot. ofcourse this is just my own personal take on the matter

john

Offline Aaron Proffitt

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Re: What we don't know
« Reply #12 on: July 01, 2006, 12:21:00 AM »
Have to go with John and Curtis and others on this one.
"First thing we do,let's kill all the lawyers".
Shakespeare Henry VI, Part 2

Does an agnostic,dyslexic,insomniac lie awake at night wondering if there really is a Dog ?

Offline Ray

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Re: What we don't know
« Reply #13 on: July 01, 2006, 08:58:00 AM »
Sorry Curt but I did not get IT reading about it.I don,t believe Charlie got it reading about it.I do believe anybody that reads about something and thinks they can get it by reading about it is just a little bit crazy.

Offline JC

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Re: What we don't know
« Reply #14 on: July 01, 2006, 09:24:00 AM »
Ray, I don't think he meant it literally. Again, Curtis's main point, at least to me, is that TP is mental and as such, is dramatically effected by our mental outlook. If you believe it doesn't exist, and can't hurt you, you can't get it. Elimination of negative thoughts and complete focus on positive does make a difference. I tend to agree with him to a point.

Archery, at least at the stage of shooting I am now, seems to be 90% mental and 50% physical   :bigsmyl:
"Being there was good enough..." Charlie Lamb reflecting on a hunt
TGMM Brotherhood of the Bow

Offline Ray

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Re: What we don't know
« Reply #15 on: July 01, 2006, 10:00:00 AM »
It deffinatly is something between my ears.May be a little more air there then brain matter(lol).
 No offence taken-Ray.

Offline larry

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Re: What we don't know
« Reply #16 on: July 01, 2006, 10:30:00 AM »
aw Ray, yer one of the more intellegent fella's I know, 'corse I've never been accused of hangin with rocket scientist.....

I've never had it but I can see the point about reading about it though, I used to read threads about different aiming styles, and then my shooting would go to pieces for a couple of days or longer, lol, to much thinking I guess, now I avoid those threads like the plague and I still couldn't tell you the mechanics of how I shoot/aim.

larry

Offline Ray

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Re: What we don't know
« Reply #17 on: July 01, 2006, 12:05:00 PM »
Larry when I get my lobotomy your in trouble(lol).

Offline JEFFRO

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Re: What we don't know
« Reply #18 on: July 01, 2006, 12:27:00 PM »
Van "hit it in the bull".  
  :D

Offline Ted A. Young

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Re: What we don't know
« Reply #19 on: July 01, 2006, 04:25:00 PM »
I'm getting PP.  People panic!  Yous guys are way to serious!    :knothead:    :bigsmyl:    :help:    "[dead]"
Ted A. Young AKA COB.  When I was young I spoke as child.  Now I'm older and got more sense I can't get any one to listen to me!

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