INFO: Trad Archery for Bowhunters



Author Topic: G. Fred Asbell..bending knees..Why?  (Read 2134 times)

Offline Bible5

  • Trad Bowhunter
  • **
  • Posts: 64
G. Fred Asbell..bending knees..Why?
« on: February 07, 2005, 06:51:00 PM »
Just got through his video and he talks about bending at the knees. Does anyone do this ?  and if so why does it help?  I don't understand his point.  :help:
"Your throne, O God, is forever and ever: A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your kingdom. You love righteousness and hate wickedness" Psalm 45:6

Offline Reiver

  • Trad Bowhunter
  • **
  • Posts: 3
Re: G. Fred Asbell..bending knees..Why?
« Reply #1 on: February 07, 2005, 07:17:00 PM »
A lot of people really like him, but I always found it difficult to shoot in the exact manner he described. I felt awkward and off-balance. I do bend my knees, but it's more situational and my body doesn't lean forward at the waist like his does while doing so. His shooting form just doesn't feel right for me.
"A war without fire is like a sausage without mustard" - Henry V

Offline Scott Gray

  • Trad Bowhunter
  • **
  • Posts: 97
Re: G. Fred Asbell..bending knees..Why?
« Reply #2 on: February 07, 2005, 07:36:00 PM »
I find that bending at the knees steadies the lower body. Bend at the knees, slightly at the waist and it makes it easy to keep  my head down or closer to the arrow.

Scott
BlackCreek Banshee 42 lbs@28

Online Terry Green

  • Administrator
  • Trad Bowhunter
  • ****
  • Posts: 22419
Re: G. Fred Asbell..bending knees..Why?
« Reply #3 on: February 07, 2005, 07:49:00 PM »
That's the way HE shoots, its part of his shot. If it don't work for you, just leave it on the table. I bend only if I need to, i.e. limb clearance, hiding and such.

Just as with watching, listening, or learning from any shooter...some things may work for you, and other may not.  Gotta come up with what works for you.
tarz@tradgang.com


"It's important,  when going after a goal, to never lose sight of the integrity of the journey" - Andy Garcia

' An anchor point is not a destination, its  an evolution to execution' - Me

Online HARL

  • Contributing Member
  • Trad Bowhunter
  • ***
  • Posts: 780
Re: G. Fred Asbell..bending knees..Why?
« Reply #4 on: February 07, 2005, 07:51:00 PM »
Tried bending at the knees when I shot ,but it made me pass gas when I drew the bow!!!!!!!!
62"63@28 Zipper Nitro
62"60@28 Zipper Nitro
A Doz. Hill Longbows

Offline Dan Worden

  • Trad Bowhunter
  • **
  • Posts: 258
Re: G. Fred Asbell..bending knees..Why?
« Reply #5 on: February 07, 2005, 07:56:00 PM »
I see his point about it increasing focus, but just can't do it myself.

Beyond the squat though I do shoot Asbell style. Sometimes for the better, sometimes.....

Offline Bible5

  • Trad Bowhunter
  • **
  • Posts: 64
Re: G. Fred Asbell..bending knees..Why?
« Reply #6 on: February 07, 2005, 08:06:00 PM »
Yes Harl I see your point...passing gas at the moment of truth might just spook the deer AS THEY GOT WIND OF YOU!!  ha ha
"Your throne, O God, is forever and ever: A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your kingdom. You love righteousness and hate wickedness" Psalm 45:6

Online Ray Lyon

  • Contributing Member
  • Trad Bowhunter
  • ***
  • Posts: 3352
Re: G. Fred Asbell..bending knees..Why?
« Reply #7 on: February 07, 2005, 08:08:00 PM »
As mentioned above, it's to increase the mental focus. I think in his book or video, he cites a study by law enforcement officers on the pistol range improving their scores by bending at the knees.

As Terry mentions above, if it doesn't work for you, you don't need to try and incorporate into your shot. Everyone shoots differently and just like the old saying in the restaurant industry about there's no such thing as an original recipe, so is it for shooting style and method. Garner tidbits from everywhere and try them, if it helps, keep it, if not discard it and move on.

I'd consider consistent hand placement on the bow, consistent draw length, consistent anchor and release as the gospel items. Beyond that, it's up to you to play around with what works for you.
Tradgang Charter Member #35

Offline Dan Adair

  • Trad Bowhunter
  • **
  • Posts: 331
Re: G. Fred Asbell..bending knees..Why?
« Reply #8 on: February 07, 2005, 08:19:00 PM »
Being both a competitive pistol shooter (IDPA and IPSC limited) and a martial artist, I can't shoot a bow without bending slightly at the knees.  Most people wouldn't even notice that I do it, thats how sleight.  Its just enough to help me feel really rooted to the earth.

Don't even get me started on breathing  :)

Offline Rod Parsons

  • Trad Bowhunter
  • **
  • Posts: 17
Re: G. Fred Asbell..bending knees..Why?
« Reply #9 on: February 07, 2005, 08:27:00 PM »
Leaning forward works for me shooting instinctive, but it ain't compulsory. I see it as a kind of physical focus, like a gun dog pointing.
The sitting thing is interesting. I hear you about breaking wind, but this is not the time or place to go into that.
Interestingly though, in Selby's "Chinese Archery" you will find an example of a "sitting" stance as a classic form for drawing a very heavy bow, to provide a stable foundation but leaving the upper body free and no doubt  also having to do with centering chi in the diaphragm.
I have doubts about  habitually bending to take the face down to the bow, since this may tend to predispose towards disrupting efficient physical alignment, but I guess hunting you can get yourself into some quite strange poses and when you are real close all kinds of stuff can work that would be hopeless at real long distances with something truly heavy to draw back.
Rod.
It's meant to be simple, not easy...

Offline SuperKodiak38

  • Trad Bowhunter
  • **
  • Posts: 278
Re: G. Fred Asbell..bending knees..Why?
« Reply #10 on: February 07, 2005, 08:33:00 PM »
I think it improves your balance. If you have ever stood in formation for a long time, as I know many here have, if you lock your knees straight you will fall over. Bend slightly and you are golden. It works for me, it feels awkward but it helps lower my center of gravity as Rod says anchors me.
"Go afield with a good attitude, respect for the wildlife you hunt and for the forest and fields in which you walk. Immerse yourself in the outdoor experience.It will cleanse your soul and make you a better person."

Fred Bear

Offline Stagmitis

  • Trad Bowhunter
  • **
  • Posts: 180
Re: G. Fred Asbell..bending knees..Why?
« Reply #11 on: February 07, 2005, 08:46:00 PM »
Bible5,


Personally I use varying degrees of bend. When  target shooting, my knees are never "locked"  but always carry a slight unnoticable bend. Aerial or moving targets I used a very pronounced bend. Like palehunter suggests I beleive it "Steadies" the lower body and aids in maintaining a solid form.


Howard Hill always bent at the knees to some degree or another as well. Most crucial when shooting aerial or running targets.


Try this......


Stand straight with knees locked and try to quickly shoot the rabbit that jumps up 8:00 to your left or right.


Now bend your knees and try it again. Youll notice how easy it is to swivel in either direction or up and down for that matter!


Stagmitis
Stagmitis

Offline Shaun

  • Moderator
  • Trad Bowhunter
  • ***
  • Posts: 3619
Re: G. Fred Asbell..bending knees..Why?
« Reply #12 on: February 07, 2005, 09:36:00 PM »
"sinking" is a way of getting more solid which may make shooting easier. I shoot better from a chair or kneeling than standing for the same reason. In G Fred's case, I think he bends his knees bedause he is about 9 feet tall and the deer is only 2 1/2 feet tall.

Offline five-oh

  • Trad Bowhunter
  • **
  • Posts: 58
Re: G. Fred Asbell..bending knees..Why?
« Reply #13 on: February 07, 2005, 09:58:00 PM »
I have never read any of Fred's stuff on form, but I too bend at the waist.  It seems like lowering my center of gravity just gives me a more stable platform when I shoot.  I also bend a little at the waist and lean forward a bit.  It probably aint right, but works for me.
"Sic Vis Pacem Parabelium"
(If you want peace, prepare for war)

Offline Vance in AK.

  • Trad Bowhunter
  • **
  • Posts: 32
Re: G. Fred Asbell..bending knees..Why?
« Reply #14 on: February 07, 2005, 11:37:00 PM »
I don't know why it helps, but when I bend slightly at the knees & waiste as he suggests, I do shoot better.
Jesus said "Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself unless it abides in the vine, so neither can you unless you abide in Me.
“I am the vine, you are the branches; he who abides in Me and I in him, he bears much fruit, for apart from Me you can do nothing."
John 15:4&5

Offline Jeff Strubberg

  • Trad Bowhunter
  • **
  • Posts: 1617
Re: G. Fred Asbell..bending knees..Why?
« Reply #15 on: February 07, 2005, 11:51:00 PM »
Might have something to do with Fred being nine foot four inches tall....

 ;)
"Teach him horsemanship and archery, and teach him to despise all lies"          -Herodotus

Offline Rod Parsons

  • Trad Bowhunter
  • **
  • Posts: 17
Re: G. Fred Asbell..bending knees..Why?
« Reply #16 on: February 08, 2005, 04:23:00 AM »
That's right, shooting one shot you can get away with all kinds of stuff if you are good at it.
I guess the so called "classic" form derives from cultures where you have to shoot heavy arrows a long way out of big draw weights repeatedly and with some hope of accuracy.
It is common to all cultures where archery in warfare became highly developed.
The hunched style is typical in many hunting cultures and probably derives from shooting up close and the desire to limit apparent movement.
Every conceivable style has it's roots in function, someplace, sometime.
Rod.
It's meant to be simple, not easy...

Offline Thunderbow

  • Trad Bowhunter
  • **
  • Posts: 7
Re: G. Fred Asbell..bending knees..Why?
« Reply #17 on: February 08, 2005, 04:33:00 AM »
"I think in his book or video (Asbel), he cites a study by law enforcement officers on the pistol range improving their scores by bending at the knees."

Then why don't olympic archers used Fred's technique?  Because it would dramatically decrease their accuracy, especially at longer distances.  It is a less stable platform to shoot anything beyind say 15-20yds.  Saying there is a need to constantly shoot arrows from a crouching position with a stick, just like Asbel, is not a good claim.  Standing up with good posture without any leg bend or waist bend is the most stable stance you can have.  Of course, hunting situations may dictate you use something else at the time...  Best to be prepared for them, too.

Offline Rod Parsons

  • Trad Bowhunter
  • **
  • Posts: 17
Re: G. Fred Asbell..bending knees..Why?
« Reply #18 on: February 08, 2005, 05:20:00 AM »
I would say that Olympic archers, in fact consistent target archers in general, don't stand the way they do so as to be accurate per se, they do it so as to be able to minimise physical variation and to be consistently accurate. The essential distinction is between what you need to do to hit once, and what you need to do to hit with consecutive shots, up to 12 dozen times. Target archery is about doing exactly the same thing, repeatedly.
Hunting is more about making one shot.
With war bows it becomes a question of having a technique which allows you to throw a heavy penetrating shaft further than someone who might be shooting back, which in turn requires mastering a technique which allows you to repeatedly shoot weights beyond what most of us would even want to string.
If you look at the style of someone like Ishi, what is immediately apparent is that he is minimising movements that can be seen from the point of view of his prey and that his drawing technique will also place a limit on the poundage he would have been able to shoot with any control.
Likewise an unassisted pinch grip and the strength of your pinch will determine the poundage at which the arrow will be loosed.
In practice, form is a product of function and is refined according to necessity except where it is culturally embedded to the point that it becomes an unquestioned convention.
But then nature has a way of coming along and delivering a swift kick up the behind, and you adapt or go under.
Rod.
It's meant to be simple, not easy...

Offline Swamp Yankee

  • Trad Bowhunter
  • **
  • Posts: 635
Re: G. Fred Asbell..bending knees..Why?
« Reply #19 on: February 08, 2005, 07:40:00 AM »
Check out G. Fred's article on being overbowed in the last issue of Traditional Bowhunter, he's standing up like an olympic shooter (first pict; not the 2nd woodchuck stalking position!).  I agree, body position is situational more often than not.  Find out what works for you most of the time, and do that most of the time.
"The pessimist complains about the wind; the optimist expects it to change; the realist adjusts the sails."
- William Arthur Ward
Black Widow PSAV 42#@29
Collection of Red Wing Hunters
Northern Mist Superior 43#@28
Blue Ridge Snowy Mt 51#@30"

Users currently browsing this topic:

0 Members and 3 Guests are viewing this topic.
 

Contact Us | Trad Gang.com © | User Agreement

Copyright 2003 thru 2019 ~ Trad Gang.com ©