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Author Topic: How accurate should I expect shooting instinctive?  (Read 220 times)

Offline Deadeye33

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How accurate should I expect shooting instinctive?
« on: April 19, 2004, 11:07:00 PM »
I am new to recurve shooting. So far I've been practicing in my basement shooting only about ten yards but after getting my bow tuned I am starting to really stack up the arrows!  I was wondering how good one should expect to get shooting without sights?  I know there are amazing shots like Howard Hill some other trick shot artists but I was just wondering what types of goals to set that would be realistic?

Any thoughts would be appreciated.

Deadeye33
Deadeye33

Online Terry Green

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Re: How accurate should I expect shooting instinctive?
« Reply #1 on: April 19, 2004, 11:16:00 PM »
Once you set a goal, you have automaticaly set a limit. So, if you must...set it way in advance of your expectations.

You can be as good as you want, if you apply yourself and have dedication.

Nobody can make you a good shot except you.  But many can help you along the way.

Get your form in order, nail it down, then get outside and shoot....shoot....and shoot some more.  Don't be afraid to shoot long distances.  You will learn a lot by shooting out to 30 and 40 yards along with 10 and 20 yarders.

Best of luck to ya.....its a grand journey.
"An anchor point is not a destination, it's an evolution to execution" - Me

"It's important,  when going after a goal, to never lose sight of the integrity of the journey" - Andy Garcia

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Offline Scott Greaves

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Re: How accurate should I expect shooting instinctive?
« Reply #2 on: April 19, 2004, 11:31:00 PM »
Practice and practice will get you shooting fine groups, I emphazize that THE SMALLER THE TARGET THE SMALLER THE GROUP-- If you are shooting at a 3 inch spot you will shoot a 3" group if you are shooting good, but shoot at a 1" spot and all of a sudden a 2" group is not out of the question, a good realistic group at 20 yards is 4" - yet it is hard to do if you shoot at a 4" spot. I hope this will help. I shoot at 50yards and come forward. If lelf and right is good, all you have to do is let mind work out the distance.

Scott

Offline trashwood

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Re: How accurate should I expect shooting instinctive?
« Reply #3 on: April 19, 2004, 11:59:00 PM »
I used to shot at an indoor range at bit.  I had a couple of shooting buddies that i shot with sometime.  we could keep a tennis ball hung from a string moving at twenty yards.  

Now to me at least there is a BBBBBIIIIIIGGGGGG differnce in fun shooting at a strung up tennis ball as compared to a 20 yd indoor bulls eye for score.  With the tennis ball and an informal setting (compared to a 5 shoot end for score with 20 other archers) ya get to shoot in your groove.  you are joking and laughing (and not thinking about hitting the mark) and having a big time.  Ya know what in that situation I can knock the thundere out of the tennis ball.....but as soon as I have to pace my shots, shooting in a collective groove in the indoor league....and having time to think about what I'm doing between shot...i can go to hell in a hand basket.

So how does this answer your question ...... accuracy is situational.  Every body ain't good as they can be in circumstance.  What we should draw from my four and half decades of shooting trad bows is......the more fun ya have the better ya shoot  :) .

I know some guys that can't hit a barn door if somebody is standing by or shooting with them yet they go out a kill more game than I do every single year.  I know guys that can shot my eyes out on a 3D course but when it come to bringing home the bacon they are a zero.

I went 3 for 3 on an 1&1/2" rattle snake head this weekend from aobut 6 yds (that is as close as I would get to him).  There is sumpin about a small target that can hurt ya that will tighten up your group  :)

Rusty

Offline strcpy

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Re: How accurate should I expect shooting instinctive?
« Reply #4 on: April 20, 2004, 01:28:00 AM »
I shoot about the bottom end of average for the trad people at our club. As the above poster said, it matters the situation and practice. This is my first year shooting a recurve.

Most of the time I play, on an NFAA single spot indoor target I can keep it in the 3 ring at 30 yards, sometimes 4. Within the 4 ring mostly at 20. I may drop 1 in 12 arrows outside of the ring (and it usually really misses). Though on some days (for instance, today) I do much worse.

When shooting for score I fluctuate between a 135-185, usually in the 155-165 range. In a 60 arrow match I shoot for a minimum of 10 per end and can usually keep it. If I do then the score is usually in the 160's and up. I know of a few people who regularly break the 200 mark and a 250 or so is normal - but they aren't human  :)  

I know that somewhere inside of me is a better recurve archer. On a good 20 arrow game I can be on my way to a 250 score, I just can't keep the concentration level up for the other 40 arrows. I get what I suppose is an extremely mild form of target panic, I start thinking "Ok, I gotta get a clean release and hit at least a four" then whammo - a 0 (pluck the string, bow arm is pointing into lala land, bad mental breakdowns basically). My game goes down hill from there as I get frustrated. If I can ever mentally play the game really one arrow at a time I know I can get over 200 (my next goal, this indoor season I reached my starting goal of an average over 150, next year I'm going for over 200).

3D is the same, taking hail mary 60 yard shots through briars I can usually hit, 26 yard for score I miss or get a 5. Really irritating.

Really, this game is very little physical and is mostly mental. Physically I think most people can shoot a very tight group, even needing a 5 spot at 20 yards indoors if we could keep the mental game up, it is really amazing how consistent the human body can be if the mind allows it. Almost all the trad shooters I watch can easily hit 4 arrows touching each other in the X ring during practice if they can keep thier mental game on (generally when just having fun), even me with less than 6 months of shooting time can. The problem is doing it over and over and over and over  :)

Offline swampbuck

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Re: How accurate should I expect shooting instinctive?
« Reply #5 on: April 20, 2004, 08:32:00 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by strcpy:
[QB]  I know of a few people who regularly break the 200 mark and a 250 or so is normal - but they aren't human   :)  
QB]
not human?????A 200 out of 300 is a very real possibility for the average shooter a 250 will take a bit of work though.I gotta agree with the FUN part of the equation.When you get flustered your shooting will get worse ya get more flustered shooting gets even worse.....The best thing that has helped me is to remember that your only shooting 1 arrow not 5 for 20 or 60 for 300 just 1.I think an average of 240out of 300 on both 3D(30 arrows 5,8,10 scoring) and the indoor NFAA target(single spot 1,2,3,4,5 scoreing 60 arrows) is a high but very realistic goal the key is not to get flustered over not getting there right away.I haven,t got there yet but I have broke the 250 mark a few times.3 to be exact.This year my first 150 round I only got an 87 because I wasn,t thinkin about just 1 arrow I was thinkin about all the stuff(release back tension deep hook ect)so don,t get discouraged when ya shoot a bad shot after all it,s just ONE arrow.BELIEVE you can and you WILL hit the spot.Kinda like in the "matrix" when the guy first tried to jump across the buildings he fell because he didn,t believe he could make it.KNOW your gonna hit that SMALL spot and you,ll be pleased with how close you are ONE arrow at a time.GOOD LUCK!!  :bigsmyl:
Shoot straight and have FUN!!

Offline Dave Bulla

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Re: How accurate should I expect shooting instinctive?
« Reply #6 on: April 20, 2004, 10:45:00 AM »
Wanna see how good ya can get?

Go to the "vintage video" section and watch Ron LaClair shooting "flying cups".

THAT'S the way I want to be able to shoot.  Ya'll can keep your dots.  (said in fun of course)
Dave


I've come to believe that the keys to shooting well for me are good form, trusting the bow to do all the work, and having the confidence in the bow and myself to remain motionless and relaxed at release until the arrow hits the mark.

Offline swampbuck

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Re: How accurate should I expect shooting instinctive?
« Reply #7 on: April 20, 2004, 12:32:00 PM »
My.02 Useing the arrow for referance can produce some remarkable results with practice.So can 110%consintration(sp)on only your target.Each has it,s place and only you can decide what YOU want to do.
Shoot straight and have FUN!!

Online Eric Krewson

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Re: How accurate should I expect shooting instinctive?
« Reply #8 on: April 20, 2004, 12:44:00 PM »
I almost always shot over 240 on a 5 spot 60 arrow tournament. On a good day I would shoot over 270, but I worked at it, practicing at least 2 evenings a week. Doubt if I could do it today with my self bow and wood arrows.

Offline Arthur P

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Re: How accurate should I expect shooting instinctive?
« Reply #9 on: April 20, 2004, 02:30:00 PM »
You'll never know how good a shot you can be until you get stuck in front of a rattlesnake stampede. :thumbsup:

Offline bayoulongbowman

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Re: How accurate should I expect shooting instinctive?
« Reply #10 on: April 20, 2004, 06:14:00 PM »
Arthur , can you say 10 gauge shotgun!..mark#78
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Online Flatstick

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Re: How accurate should I expect shooting instinctive?
« Reply #11 on: April 20, 2004, 08:54:00 PM »
I have to agree with Trashwood on this. Shooting a bow should be fun not work. As far as getting started, first concentrate on the basics of your form, secondly know your limitations. Shooting long distance is fun, but get to know what your personal "killing range" is and stick to it when hunting.

Like Trashwood said, I know guys that can literally shoot out the "12 ring" on a 3D target. But these same guys have trouble when faced with hunting shots. Others I know are ashamed to keep score on a 3D course but they bring home game consistantly each year because they learn to hunt the animal they are after.

To sum it up:
#1. Know your equipment.
#2. Know your limitations - "killing range"
#3. Know the animal you are hunting.

Above all,,enjoy yourself in the process  :thumbsup:  .
"Good Luck" & "Shoot Straight!"

Online kennym

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Re: How accurate should I expect shooting instinctive?
« Reply #12 on: April 20, 2004, 09:49:00 PM »
What Trashwood and Flatstick said!  BTW have fun  :thumbsup:     Kenny
Stay sharp, Kenny.

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Offline Shaun

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Re: How accurate should I expect shooting instinctive?
« Reply #13 on: April 21, 2004, 12:45:00 AM »
If you are shooting well at 10 yards, you are ready to hunt (at 10 yds). When you get to be a really good shot, you won't have to hunt so hard. 'course I still shoot most of my game at less than 10 yards.

If you practice a lot and have good form (have someone who knows watch you shoot and take their advice) you will reach your potential in a few years. Hand/eye coordination and general athletic ability seem to be the limiting factors. A good bow and quality arrows matched to it will help.

If you love to see arrows fly, it will be fun from the first arrow till your last. I like to end my practice on a real good shot - that way the brain remembers that it can do it.

Offline strcpy

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Re: How accurate should I expect shooting instinctive?
« Reply #14 on: April 21, 2004, 04:27:00 AM »
Quote
not human?????A 200 out of 300 is a very real possibility for the average shooter a 250 will take a bit of work though.
At this years indoor nationals the adult male traditional winner shot a 269 and a 278. Looking through the archived years a consistent 250 would have someone place well (usually above the middle). At least as for 2002, 2003, and 2004. Of course I do not know if the majority are gap shooting or instinctive.

While the traditional class is small (no money) the indoor nationals are still a major tournament. I've found the indoor national scores to generally be higher than the results I've looked up for state traditional shoots (at the same target of course). A consistent 200 in the ones I've looked at will place fairly high.

I can easily break 200 when goofing around, by myself, etc. It is another thing to do so during league night, or expecially a tournament. Packed on the line, time limit on the arrows, people watching, all of that stuff (not to mention that one usually is thinking about their shots more) seems to reduce almost everyones scores.

Watching someone shoot around a 250 or better consistently on leagues is like watching the consistent 60x shooters with a compound - they are a machine. A 180-210 shooter is like a 45-55x compound shooter, after a lot of work many can do it, though most are in the lower ranges. Much over that takes talent and work.

Offline Jeffrey P

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Re: How accurate should I expect shooting instinctive?
« Reply #15 on: April 21, 2004, 05:36:00 AM »
I have been shooting trad for about 5 years,  I started with a recurve like you then went to a longbow.  Just this year my 3d scores have jumped 30-40 points. I feel much better and more comfortable when I am shooting. Hang in there you will get better.
Jeff
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Offline Pinelander

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Re: How accurate should I expect shooting instinctive?
« Reply #16 on: April 22, 2004, 01:20:00 AM »
I've been hunting with recurves now for 20 years, never used to shoot spots... "hunters just don't need to do such a thing, stump shootin' is better" they'd say. Well, I've been messing around with shooting 300 rounds out back in the yard. Sure has helped me realize what I am or am not doing correctly. The rythym and repetition has been a good thing for me. Sometimes I don't shoot for score, will mix it up a bit and shoot from 20-35 yards to get the "flight of the arrow" engrained in my mind.

I'm a hunter first, but also having a whole lot of fun shooting the "dots" and can actually gauge my improvement. I'm not a great shooter, just average... shooting 210-220 right now. My goal is to hit the 240's sometime this summer.

Have some fun there, Jeff. It does start coming together quicker than you might think.   ;)

Offline Brian Krebs

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Re: How accurate should I expect shooting instinctive?
« Reply #17 on: April 22, 2004, 03:27:00 AM »
I like to shoot alone; where I can think shots through. I can a great percentage of the time know when I am not going to shoot a good arrow. In practice it is not a big deal; but while hunting; it is critical to me. I like to know when I am going to shoot a perfect arrow - but I also like to know; to recognise when I am not going to. I might have anchored wrong; or have the string 'right' on my fingers. It just may feel like I am not 'locked on'; and when this happens hunting it could mean shooting a bad arrow.
  So when I am practicing and 'feel' I am not just right to make a shot; I will let up; and when I am hunting if I don't feel totally in control; I will 'throw' an arrow.
  Example:  last fall I called in a spike bull that I had freezer plans for. I had seen him before in the same place; and knew when he moved he moved fast.
  I called that bull and he came in on a run and slammed the brakes on. His position was behind two pines; and I could see his head; and his heart lung area clearly. He was within 20 yards; and I drew as he stopped; and I felt I would make the shot. But in the very instant I went to release; the bull started moving forward.
  I was committed to releasing the arrow; my muscles were giving into the string; and yet I knew the elk would move to quickly to hit; and so I pulled the bow up and shot over its back a good two or three feet. If I had held the shot; I may have hit the hind quarter; or worse.
  So I practice for that. If I think I am not totally on; I will pull the shot off target if I cannot let up in time.
  some arrows fly totally perfectly you could neuter a gnat at 30 yards.
 And when I am shooting an arrow best; I know it will be that accurate. If I am wrong; or if there is target movement;or gravity swells; then I still am in the boiler room.
  Fun is essential to practice. Boredom serves you not.
  Balloons with just enough string to slow them from heading out of state; provide some action; as what I like best as a mountain hunter; is shooting uphill; and downhill; and when I shoot at a target; I like to turn around and have the next target there; instead of walking to the target; getting arrows and walking back to the line and shoot; you shoot different ranges; on different angles with each set of arrows.
  I am not a natural shot; I have to practice a lot and often.
  If I am to do that for the rest of my life; it has to be rewarding in itself.
  With seeking perfection; like shooting at asprin; you may only hit the asprin once or twice; but heck- if its a controlled shot and its perfect; then you have gotten as good as you ever have to be.
   Know what range you effective at; set a standard for that in your head; and take shots that are 'diamond shots' not 'stone'; as in 'some days are diamonds; some days are stone'; some shots are the same way.
  Relax; and have fun; and know what you can do while hunting.
               good luck: Brian
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Offline Guru

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Re: How accurate should I expect shooting instinctive?
« Reply #18 on: April 22, 2004, 08:31:00 AM »
Brian, Some interesting thoughts about shooting.Can't say I would agree with the"practicing of pulling off on a shot".Seems that would lead to some bad habits.I guess I am the opposite of you in that the less I think about the shot,and only concentrate on my spot,the better I shoot.
 That's what makes this sport so unique.Everyone has their own style.Interesting stuff  :thumbsup:
Curt } >>--->   

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Offline Teacher_of_the_Arcane

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Re: How accurate should I expect shooting instinctive?
« Reply #19 on: April 22, 2004, 07:14:00 PM »
Deadeye33,

There's a fellow named Stacy Groscup who lives about 20 miles from my home.  He shoots aspirin tablets out of the air with his recurve, shooting instinctively.   I asked him  his secret......"lots of practice!"

Lobo Lohr in the Mountains of West Virginia
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Offline bayoulongbowman

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Re: How accurate should I expect shooting instinctive?
« Reply #20 on: April 22, 2004, 07:21:00 PM »
he is one of the best !!!!!!!!!! and his side kick FRANK....ONE OF THE NICEST TOO....MARK#78  :thumbsup:
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Offline Budly

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Re: How accurate should I expect shooting instinctive?
« Reply #21 on: April 23, 2004, 01:51:00 PM »
This is not intended to sound negative. But don't expect accuracy to happen. Guys that expect it to happen keep buying new bows every year hoping that they will bring consistent accuracy. They expect it to be up to the gear. Good shots consistently hit with any equipment. Bad shots consitently miss with any equipment. You can get extremely accurate and consistent. The operative word in that sentence is YOU in the form of practicing, listening, learning, and trying your hardest to make every shot count. Trad equipment is not an excuse for shooting poorly. It is an opportunity to shoot extremely well while being in closer touch with the whole shot process. Sorry for the diatribe, but your accuracy is only limited by your efforts and not by the equipment.
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