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Author Topic: Asbell style  (Read 1496 times)

Offline joe skipp

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Re: Asbell style
« Reply #20 on: November 21, 2003, 07:37:00 PM »
Roger...how did you make out in Michigans UP? Curious about the raction when you pulled out the honesteel.
"Neal...is this heaven?" "No Piute but we are dam close". Top of the Mtn in Medicine Bow Nat Forest.

Offline bayoulongbowman

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Re: Asbell style
« Reply #21 on: November 21, 2003, 08:58:00 PM »
You want get better, well ya got to kmow what your doing and look like first...video a practice round....mark#78
"If you're living your life as if there is no GOD, you had  better be right!"

Offline Madpigslayer

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Re: Asbell style
« Reply #22 on: November 21, 2003, 09:52:00 PM »
Jawge. I am sorry to hear that. I do have some to spare if ya need some.   :D
...gosh this is hard.

Hailey (5) 3 minutes into a pilates workout

Offline LBR

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Re: Asbell style
« Reply #23 on: November 21, 2003, 10:20:00 PM »
I much more prefer Ferguson's method, and his book.  I don't gap shoot (or indirectly aim), but I did learn a good bit--the fundamentals are there regardless of how you "aim". (I don't yank it back and shoot either)  Ferguson's book is much easier to read, and more entertaining to me.  I have no idea how anyone gets to draw on a whitetail using that swing draw--I'd bet he ain't hunted whitetail in MS.

I've seen Mr. Asbells video (one of them at least), and glanced at the books.  It was several years ago when I did, but I don't remember seeing the part about shooting from half-draw, etc. (but I didn't really read them either).  I did notice in a fairly recent article of TBM that he emphasized a solid, consistent anchor--maybe he's modified his style?

Chad

Offline **DONOTDELETE**

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Re: Asbell style
« Reply #24 on: November 21, 2003, 10:59:00 PM »
I've read and watched F. Asbells video. Liked them and use some of his suggestions. I also watched the new BW DVD in Africa. It shows F. Asbell shooting and he shoots a little diff. then he shows in his video. He draws alittle slower and holds a little longer. I guess you use what ever it takes to make it work for you. Nothing is written in stone on how to shoot a bow a certain way.

Offline Mike Brown

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Re: Asbell style
« Reply #25 on: November 22, 2003, 09:27:00 AM »
I have both of Fred's books and his video.  I used his style for years and still do for close quick shots.

However I found to like Dave Bulla that it led me to shoot too fast and turned into target panic.  I dropped from 60 lb bows to 50 lb bows and now shoot slower and hit a difinite anchor each shot.  Crawling out of the target panic hole is laborsome.

Offline bayoulongbowman

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Re: Asbell style
« Reply #26 on: November 22, 2003, 09:31:00 AM »
Mike , Wish I had a Quarter for every time I here that ...I use to shoot heavy bows ....but I do better when I can hold anchor about 3 seconds 56# - 61 is all I shoot...what you said WORKs!..mark#78
"If you're living your life as if there is no GOD, you had  better be right!"

Offline Raven

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Re: Asbell style
« Reply #27 on: November 22, 2003, 09:39:00 AM »
I'am with ya Mike Brown. Have read both books and watched the video, all good info, but not for me. Started shooting way to fast and got TP  :scared:   Now I work on form and holding a solid anchor for a few to get my total focus on the spot, then let her rip.  :D   This is the way I used to shoot anyways before reading Asbells books, and shot veary well. Sometimes out shooting my friends who shoot wheelbows. But bad habbits are hard to break, but it is all comming back to me  :D    :D   I think I will write a book on how to shoot a bow nice and slow for best control  :bigsmyl:   I say just use what works best for you. But mostly work on perfect form everytime ya draw your bow  :thumbsup:   Raven

Offline Tedd

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Re: Asbell style
« Reply #28 on: November 22, 2003, 09:47:00 AM »
just got in from my best round ever , really getting back there now, some 50+ paces. Don't know what kind of aiming I am doing, But I use the high wrist and it does work. I pull straight back. Mostly an instinctive shot, pretty quick realease. But If the shot is not comming around perfectly, I'll hold longer, and see my arrow for left and right, then release.
Guess I have shot so much, my brain knows when it is not a perfect instinctive shot and then makes an adjustment. Today was fun. I would not hesitate to shoot at a deer at 40 yds.

Offline Bill Howland

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Re: Asbell style
« Reply #29 on: November 22, 2003, 10:55:00 AM »
When Mr. Asbell wrote his first book I think it was the first of it's kind. Trying to show a instinctive method. I think it was good for traditional archery. It allowed an opportunity for a acknowledge resurgence in traditional gear. Remember when the first book came out? If memory serves me right it was mid 80's. A lot of folks had switched to compounds. How many trad bowyers were a round then....1/8 of what's available today. I personally think that Mr. Asbell's first book was a great help to get trad archery on an upward growth path.

Do I like the style that he writes about, no, but there is still some good info in his first writing. The thought of just pointing your finger is a great training aid. I use it to help folks get on target...it works.

I'm sure that we all can think of the negatives, where someone got frustrated with trad archery trying to shoot like Fred, but if you look at Mr. Asbell's impact for trad archery, I'd have to say it's been good.

Just a thought,
Bill

Offline lcoast

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Re: Asbell style
« Reply #30 on: November 22, 2003, 11:20:00 AM »
Form is technique. Technique has to be second nature for instinctive to be natural. Practise develops good form/technique. Good instinct will arise from good form. Good instinct is just your subconscious self gathering all the data necessary to instruct the body "how". It takes place below conscious awareness because the technique is nataural.

=keith=
=keith=

Busted chairs and broken dreams.

Offline Mike Brown

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Re: Asbell style
« Reply #31 on: November 22, 2003, 11:47:00 AM »
My son shot on the Tx A&M arhery team during college.  He went to the olympic training center for some coaching.  He said that a few of the foreign teams tried to shoot with a straight wrist.  It is good in that it does help prevent torquing the bow.  But ist is only good for a few shots.  Practice and hunting for example.  For for lengthy shooting the wrist begins to fatigue.

Offline Hal Hartness

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Re: Asbell style
« Reply #32 on: November 22, 2003, 12:04:00 PM »
Proper form? taget or hunting?
I can see a proper form in 3d or targets but on the woods or stand.
In the woods I don't think you get proper form chances much. In the last 15 year 80% of my shots have found my feet side by side not one foot foward. IE. stood up in tree stand but not able to move left foot foward fight foot back. Talk about hip twist.Different cants for tree limbs,shoot behind the back with feet pointing foward. Ok burn me for bad shots, naw we use to have those shots in 3d shoots. there is basics of shooting but like all sports all form is changed in the real world of the game. ie, the jump shot, the pass and on and on. jmbo

Offline Raven

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Re: Asbell style
« Reply #33 on: November 22, 2003, 12:05:00 PM »
I agree with ya that Mr.Asbell has done more for Trad than most have  :D   I think that his books are great if you are trueley a Instinctive shooter. I happen to be like most in that I'am a barebow shooter. I use my arrow as a refrence to my shooting. I have total respect for anyone that is a total Instinctive shot not useing anything to aim with just look at what you whant to hit and let her rip. I just feel that some may be missled or get discouraged from shooting when they try this meathod of shooting and can't do it everytime or almost everytime. Bad habits begin to develope before you realize it, and then you are back to sqaure one tyring to reprogram the computer upstairs  :D   I have shot Trad bows for 20 some years and was a veary good shot, placeing in the top 3 at most bow shoots.  I used the push-pull meathod and held at my anchor for a few seconds untill I had all focus on the spot. Hit more than I missed. Tryed to shoot the Instingtive way and it all fell apart, bad habits began that I didn't realize untill it was to late in the game. I think that there is nothing wrong with tacking that extra second or two and aim before letting it rip. I think that some think that it ait cool if ya ait shooten Instinctive, and would be better off shooting Barebow instead. But for those that can trueley shoot INSTINCTIVE my hats off to ya!! This is what makes achery so fun, it is an individual sport or should I say LIFE STYLE and we are all different and have are own ways of doing things  :D    :D   GOOD LUCK and GOOD SHOOTING!! Raven  :thumbsup:

Offline Tom Mussatto

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Re: Asbell style
« Reply #34 on: November 22, 2003, 12:18:00 PM »
Although I do believe Fred Asbel has had a big impact on traditional bowhunting I do not think his book or video on shooting is the main reason. The resurgence of traditional equipment, and the interest in traditional archery, occurred before Fred’s book.

By the mid-70's the compound was already the dominate bow being used and, with the exception of Gail Martin, the other major equipment manufacturers of that time all but completely abandoned the stick bows. Gail did get into the compound market in a big way but not at the expense of traditional equipment, and he continued to offer a full line of traditional bows in addition to his line of compounds. It might also be noted that Gail never did pursue the crossbow as did Bear and Pearson Archery. There were also a few smaller bowyers out there making stick bows, Hill, Zebra, Bill Stewart, and the Wilson Brothers being a few. Also during the 70's Harvey Overshiner started a traditional archery publication that was very successful and had he been a better businessman, more honest with his subscribers, and more fair to his advertisers, this publication would probably today still be the biggest traditional magazine available. Although the magazine itself was published on cheap paper I still consider those magazines better than anything we have available today.

I think Fred’s biggest impact was starting and successfully operating Bighorn archery, offering quality custom stick bows. This during the 70's when the compound ruled. Took guts I think. Today we have more and more traditional bows and bowyers than ever and fewer high tech manufacturers, even though the modern bows still dominate. I don't know if we can contribute this to Fred and Bighorn but Bighorns success certainly helped. By keeping traditional archery exposed through his writing in magazines and seminars at state bowhunting organization banquets and shoots Fred also contributed a great deal to the health of our sport, more so than his book and video on shooting. I find it interesting that shortly after Fred left his position as president of P&Y the Club reversed a policy on equipment that had been established while he was in office.

As for his particular shooting style, I did not find anything particularly new in his book, although the style may have been forgotten by those who had moved on to the compound or those who started out shooting the compound.
Tom Mussatto

Offline Mike Brown

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Re: Asbell style
« Reply #35 on: November 22, 2003, 01:49:00 PM »
I own two of the Asbell era Bighorns and they are the most stable and quiet recurves that I have.

Offline Dave Bulla

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Re: Asbell style
« Reply #36 on: November 23, 2003, 12:53:00 PM »
Well gosh, I guess when I said I'd be the first to give a dissenting opinion I didn't know what I was starting.

Since several people refered back to that post I need to clarify things.  I'm not trying to say that Fred didn't give proper instruction on form or that he gave bad information, just that in the reading of his first book and the stories in the second half along with most of the stories in TBH and any other trad archery type magazines it was very easy for me as a then beginner to loose sight of the importance of proper form.  Basic form has to come first for any method to work well.  I think even Fred used the analogy of basketball where you start square to the rim shooting from the waist with both hands then progress to shooting above your head, to hook shots and lay ups to spectacular jumping, twisting overhead and around your opponent "instinctive" shots that have nothing in common with those first two handed shots.  

That is actually a better analogy than I realized when I first read it and echos my own beliefs that shooting instinctively is a goal more than a means to become a proficient shot.  Problem is simple human nature.  We want to go straight to the advanced crowd and hang with the pro's without putting in the hours it takes to really get that good.  If you don't believe me just look at compound archery and all the store bought "accuracy" available simply because the average person wants a short cut.  Just because somebody shoots trad doesn't mean they don't want to get good at it quickly and there is nothing wrong with that within reason.  Everyone has a different learning curve.  Some people really can start out shooting instinctive, learn it well and proper and never have a problem.  I'm not one of them and I know a lot of others in the same boat.

I really believe that shooting instinctivly is the best method there is for hunting animals but I also believe that many people need help or an aiming method to become proficient enough in basic archery to be considered an excellent shot.  It takes a constant awareness ESPECIALLY DURING THE LEARNING PROCESS to maintain the basics and really get good at it.  Not to mention a certain amount of natural ability.  Face it, if all it took was proper coaching and practice to become a superstar every kid with a rich daddy would be pitching like Nolan Ryan or hitting a golf ball like Tiger Woods.  We're not all Fred Asbells or Byron Fergusons no matter how bad we want it or how much we practice.

Fred is a great guy and I had the opportunity to speak with him at a UBM banquet and see him shoot in a short demo.  He really knows his stuff and that is part of the problem I think.  He's been doing this for so long that it's easy for him to not emphasize aspects of shooting that are so ingrained in his own style that he doesn't think about them.  Besides, isn't it a much more exciting read to hear about a highly proficient hunter crawling within yards of a big game animal then at just the right moment being able to sit up, twist into an awkward position, draw to somewhere around his shoulder and 10 ring an unsuspecting trophy animal?  All with a ho-hum "I do this all the time" spin on it.  That is a lot more exciting and interesting than stressing over and over the importance of learning the basics first.  The average reader forgets the skill level of the author and just wants to go out and do the same thing.  I just wanted to emphasize the basics to anyone wanting to learn shooting by his (or anyone elses) methods.

Dave
Dave


I've come to believe that the keys to shooting well for me are good form, trusting the bow to do all the work, and having the confidence in the bow and myself to remain motionless and relaxed at release until the arrow hits the mark.

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