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Author Topic: " Primal Dreams "  (Read 608 times)

Offline TexasBubba

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Re: " Primal Dreams "
« Reply #25 on: August 23, 2007, 12:37:00 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by PaulRoberts:

 I had to admit it was pretty gruesome.
Such a strong statement.........gruesome?  Hardly
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Offline Gene Wensel

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Re: " Primal Dreams "
« Reply #26 on: August 23, 2007, 02:36:00 PM »
We have to always remember that most hunters have been PROGRAMMED to either expect or reject kill scenes. Its hard to stay in the gray zone and yet pass the message. Some people love big bucks in velvet while others get bored. Many potential customers immediately ask "How many kill shots are in it?" before they buy. I'm tempted to ask them how many they need...
 As has been said, we'll never make everyone happy. We've had suggestions everywhere from no music whatsoever, to hating it, to asking to buy the sound track. Some people thought we shot ten turkeys before we actually killed one (in reality, all turkeys hit were killed). We have two seasons of all five of us filming since we made Primal Dreams. I must say we have got some outstanding footage and more rare footage and freak antlers, etc. We also have close to a hundred kills on film but very few of them are good enough to share with the general public. We'll see. Stay tuned. Thanks for the comments. They help.

Offline T.J.

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Re: " Primal Dreams "
« Reply #27 on: August 23, 2007, 03:32:00 PM »
Gene,

Does this mean we can hope for a sequel of some sort? Both PD and Spirit of the bow were great. Thanks!
"...Watching a buck turn back seeing his form melt away, a hunter will feel an inner smile. There's no other place he wishes to be and never does he feel more alive..."

~Gene Wensel (Primal Dreams)


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Offline PaulRoberts

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Re: " Primal Dreams "
« Reply #28 on: August 23, 2007, 03:36:00 PM »
Thanks Gene. IMO, beauty and process are too rare in hunting videos, yet commonplace in hunting. I'm looking forward to what you have coming. For me anyway, your efforts are in the right direction.

Offline Herdbull

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Re: " Primal Dreams "
« Reply #29 on: August 23, 2007, 03:45:00 PM »
TJ ,
 Gene had to go out of town, but yes you are correct. We are working on a sequel of sorts, but we don't feel it will be ready until maybe a year and half or so. There is a lot we would like to do better. When dealing with nature, some of it takes time and opportunity along with a little luck. Thanks.  Mike

Offline Bard1

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Re: " Primal Dreams "
« Reply #30 on: August 23, 2007, 03:55:00 PM »
I'd like to throw my thoughts in the rings as well.  
First off, I love PD And have watched it many times.  I loved the music and naration. Though I didn't find the turky shots gruesome at all, I did find it too repatative.  I liked Paul's idea of a kill shot, then walking away with the bird and then a scene with the hunter and family sitting down to eat, or maybe with friends all laughing and having a good time telling stories over the cooked bird.  
On a similar vein There were a number of scenes which showed one of the brothers release an arrow, then cut to the scene with the downed animal.  This I thought a nice classy touch.  Personaly I have no need so see the actually arrow hitting the animal.  On the other hand I can see some arguments for having such arrow impact scenes as well.  We ARE killing animals out there after all, Why hide it or gloss it over?  
  The thing with the moose hunt however, had no scene with the hunter shooting at all.  One min.
Mike is calling to some moose, next he's walking up to the "fallen monarch".  I think it would have been a much smoother story telling if you had included a scene that showed him coming to full draw and release, then him walking up to the moose.  Even if it was filmed later.  
The elk hunt section was great.  The deer in the Fields, though I enjoyed it, I felt it was a little to long.  I think that's it for my opinions.  Over all its a great DVD and I enjoy it far and away better then any other modern hunting DVD.  
Derek
got arrows?

Offline Roughcountry

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Re: " Primal Dreams "
« Reply #31 on: August 23, 2007, 04:12:00 PM »
Bard 1 pretty much said most everything I think about PD. Best dang DVD I've ever watched  :thumbsup:  
 Wished it had a mule deer in it, and my favorite, the mt lion. I really liked the shot of the little bob getting the bushy tail. Rare footage.
Thanks guys, waitin for the next one.

Offline T.J.

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Re: " Primal Dreams "
« Reply #32 on: August 23, 2007, 05:27:00 PM »
Mike,

Thanks for the response  :)  I agree and second Paul's ideas. I also like Bard1's idea about the moose. But in the end mother nature is the ultimate director of a film like this. You can only put in the movie what mother nature allows you to catch on tape. 1 1/2 years is a wait well worth waiting for another dvd of this caliber.

Thanks to you, your brothers, Gene, Barry, and anyone I might have missed who is working on these dvd's. They're what gets a lot of us through the off season and gets us dreaming of what's to come.

T.J.
"...Watching a buck turn back seeing his form melt away, a hunter will feel an inner smile. There's no other place he wishes to be and never does he feel more alive..."

~Gene Wensel (Primal Dreams)


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Offline Ray Hammond

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Re: " Primal Dreams "
« Reply #33 on: August 23, 2007, 05:46:00 PM »
JSD3,

succumb to the hype?

I don't know what YOUR definition of hype is...but my definition is " extravagant exaggeration "(as "mile-high ice-cream cones")  

I don't think the discussion by hundreds of bowhunters who liked the message of the video when you and John didn't find anything of value in it - necessarily MAKES our praise of it "hype".

Some folks are stage one hunters their whole lives- ie- gotta kill something. Some are stage two all their lives- ie filling tags. Stage 3 is hunting trophies I think, and four is hunting specific animals.

That doesn't necessarily make them any less skilled or any less of a hunter than a stage five(there for the entire experience, and the process is more important than the end result) but it does make them different.

Maybe the thrill you get from hunting is more closely tied to taking game, and because of that you get less out of "the rest of the story" ?? I'm not picking on you, or trying to be mean or insulting...I just think that your response - and John's - were unique and interesting enough that I wanted to explore why you feel the way you do.

I spend a lot of time in bowhunter education and it's something I think about a great deal.
“Courageous, untroubled, mocking and violent-that is what Wisdom wants us to be. Wisdom is a woman, and loves only a warrior.” - Friedrich Nietzsche

Offline 3dmuzzy

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Re: " Primal Dreams "
« Reply #34 on: August 23, 2007, 06:04:00 PM »
Wow,This is not what I expected from this post!I was just saying I like to watch this dvd before the season starts,Every one has there opinion I like to watch Kill scenes as much as the next guy,But this dvd is much more than that,It gets us in tune to whats around us,Thanks Barry and Gene looking foward to the next one well done!  :clapper:  >>>----> ED
Put some air under it.

Online Keefer

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Re: " Primal Dreams "
« Reply #35 on: August 23, 2007, 06:27:00 PM »
:bigsmyl:     :)     ;)     :D   Just a few more of my thoughts on a job well done. Thanks Mike, Barry,Gene and everyone else who took part in P.D. God Bless! Keefers <")))><

Offline Gary Logsdon

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Re: " Primal Dreams "
« Reply #36 on: August 23, 2007, 07:58:00 PM »
"The Journey IS the Destination".  "Process over Product."  Two themes I once discussed with Fred Bear after viewing his great film The Restless Spirit.  Over 20 years passed before those concepts, IMHO, were adequately addressed by a bowhunting film. Primal Dreams, like Fred's film, addresses why we hunt.
Gary Logsdon

Offline Talondale

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Re: " Primal Dreams "
« Reply #37 on: August 24, 2007, 04:04:00 PM »
Since we're giving opinions I'll voice mine.  I just recently purchased the video and enjoyed it.  I felt it was a blend of "River Runs Through It"/Wild Kingdom/and a hunting video. I have to agree with Bard1 in that I felt it would have been better (for me) if the "hunting" segments had more of progression feel to them.  Sometimes they did and sometimes they almost felt like they were less of a visual narrative and more part of the other images that glided past, and that may have been the intent.  I would also have liked someone else to have done the narrative.  That is not a critisicm against Gene but I kept envisioning a different voice, probably one from many movies I have seen, and I distracted myself.  Kind of like hearing a favorite tune played on a piano and thinking you wish you could hear it played on an acoustic guitar.  A mear matter of artistic interpretation.  I appreciate the quality of the images and the music and the sentiment of the narrative.  I like many types of hunting videos, from the over-the-shoulder, to the instructional and "interprative".  We get so few of the last two.

Offline B-DOG

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Re: " Primal Dreams "
« Reply #38 on: August 24, 2007, 04:10:00 PM »
does this video have a lot of traditional kill shots?

Offline Ray Hammond

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Re: " Primal Dreams "
« Reply #39 on: August 24, 2007, 04:30:00 PM »
Nope.
“Courageous, untroubled, mocking and violent-that is what Wisdom wants us to be. Wisdom is a woman, and loves only a warrior.” - Friedrich Nietzsche

Offline TexasBubba

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Re: " Primal Dreams "
« Reply #40 on: August 24, 2007, 04:51:00 PM »
It amazes me all the arm chair critics/producers that are out there..........

  Drop some cash buy you a camera, get out there, spend some time in the woods and produces your own video.  Then you can have it the way you want it, but be prepared for the arm chair critics/producers.

P.S.  I'm sure James Earl Jones is always available for some voice overs.
Bill Graves
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Iraq - Afghanistan Veteran

I was a soldier - I am a soldier- I will always be a soldier

Offline Talondale

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Re: " Primal Dreams "
« Reply #41 on: August 24, 2007, 05:18:00 PM »
TexasBubba,
   I guess you could say I'm an arm chair critic/producer but I can't remember many videos that I thought were 100% perfect and if I may quote:
 
Quote
Thanks for your opinion guys.
Quote
Thanks for the comments. They help.  
I tried to make mine in a positive, constructive manner.

Online John3

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Re: " Primal Dreams "
« Reply #42 on: August 24, 2007, 06:11:00 PM »
Ray,
Oh yes the "hype" got me. For over a year every post I read stated something to this effect, "greatest bowhunting DVD ever" or "award winning bowhunting video". I'm glad people like the dvd and I'm even happy it won awards. In my opinion it is not a "hunting" video. Some people say that it's the best they have ever seen. Better than Bowhunting October Whitetails?  I think not even close.
I love the sight of an oak ridge in late October and the smell of the woods after the rain; but I don't need the sierra club existentialism bowseason on DVD. Let alone the $20 I put into the Wensel's pockets to get it.
Teach me why did you pick that stand location or how to set up correctly on those elk. Good bowhunting video's in my opinion teach.
Like I said in my earlier post, I may be the only one that will state this opinion in public. To those who PM'd me, thanks and I do understand.

John III
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Offline Ray Hammond

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Re: " Primal Dreams "
« Reply #43 on: August 24, 2007, 06:17:00 PM »
I rest my case. You've proven my hypothesis to be correct.
“Courageous, untroubled, mocking and violent-that is what Wisdom wants us to be. Wisdom is a woman, and loves only a warrior.” - Friedrich Nietzsche

Offline Biggie Hoffman

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Re: " Primal Dreams "
« Reply #44 on: August 24, 2007, 06:19:00 PM »
Ditto
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Online John3

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Re: " Primal Dreams "
« Reply #45 on: August 24, 2007, 06:28:00 PM »
So do I.
"There is no excellence in Archery without great labor".  Maurice Thompson 1879

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Offline Gary Logsdon

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Re: " Primal Dreams "
« Reply #46 on: August 24, 2007, 08:26:00 PM »
Here's my two cents worth.  I was inspired, no COMPELLED to take up the simple bow and arrow after watching Fred Bear's film "The Oldest Game" some 40 years ago.  As far as hunting technique, well, it taught me very little, however it did capture my imagination and take me to a place where sounds of trickling water, rustling maple leaves, and the smell of fresh earth abound.  Primal Dreams does this too.  It is a heartfelt attempt to communicate the total hunting experience to bowbenders and non-hunters alike.  In that vein I think it is quite successful.  Is it perfect, of course not, however the Wensel and Mittens have created a fine film on an out-of-pocket budget. I have personal knowledge of the difficulties they encountered in bringing their vision to the public. It was, indeed, a labor of love for the sport they cherish, not - in any way, an attempt at turning a big profit.  Please consider these points when passing judgment.
Gary Logsdon

Offline Biggie Hoffman

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Re: " Primal Dreams "
« Reply #47 on: August 25, 2007, 06:27:00 AM »
As a lifelong bowhunter, the climax of it all is watching the arrow slice thru the air and strike, then disapear thru the chest cavity. Crude sounding but nonetheless, it's the point in which we realize the plan coming together.
I understand guys who want to see the "kills" and there are plenty of tapes out there for that. But realistically, the moment of impact is such a small percentage of bowhunting, why should it be the large percentage of hunting videos?
I have been hunting with G&B for over 20 years now, let me say this, MONEY DOESN'T DRIVE WHAT THEY DO IN BOWHUNTING. They LOVE bowhunting. Sometimes I think too much :-) They want to share the spiritual aspects with us and this DVD is one way to point out how much heartfelt love they have for the outdoors.
When you simply consider the time and effort and cost to edit and produce thousands of hours of footage down to a two hour dvd, then split any profit 5 ways, you can easily see $$$$ doesn't drive this effort.

You're given a chance here to spend time afield with two of the finest bowhunters who've ever lived. Imagine one or the other of them standing beside you as you watch this footage. See what they see, walk where they walk. Feel it!

When we (2XL Productions) produced Spirit of the Bow, and I'm sure it didn't sell as many copies as PD, we never did recover all of our costs.
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Offline hawgslayer

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Re: " Primal Dreams "
« Reply #48 on: August 25, 2007, 07:06:00 AM »
:wavey:
HAWGSLAYER

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Offline fflintlock

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Re: " Primal Dreams "
« Reply #49 on: August 25, 2007, 07:45:00 AM »
I think it was among the best 20 dollar bills I ever sent to anyone !  I liked it alot. I'll admit, when I first put it on, and I did'nt see alot of kills, I thought what ? Then I started hearing and seeing what they saw and what I beleived they were wanting others too feel, so I restarted the video. It then became clear, (yea, I'm a bit slow at times LOL) I think it was an awsome video. I'll buy any video from those guys, they have the right feeling about what we love and do. I don't kill many animals and I don't get many chances to be out among it,  but I have a good time just being out there and seeing them and knowing a feeling that many will never feel or truely know. It is truely not about the kill, that is secondary to the feeling one gets when hunting. For me, killing anything is a weird feeling, but a feeling that must be endured during the process of life. I don't kill anything I'm not going to eat. I pay tribute to those animals I do kill to feed my family. All that said, it was a great video my whole family watched and enjoyed. I have shared it with others who don't hunt, but understand the process of responsible hunting, they enjoyed it as well. I kinda understand the turkey segment, I'd be excited too, if I could take one of them with a bow, I'm still trying  ;)  
 This was a very different video compared to the October Whitetails, but a dang good one none the less.
Just my very humble opinion
Jerald

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