Shooters Forum

Contribute to Trad Gang
Become a Trad Gang Sponsor







Author Topic: There is something to more back tension....  (Read 1295 times)

Online Roy from Pa

  • Administrator
  • Trad Bowhunter
  • ****
  • Posts: 15597
There is something to more back tension....
« on: August 31, 2018, 05:36:01 PM »
Always thought I had pretty decent form and I shot fairly well.

The last bow I made came in about 4 pounds light.

So to compensate for the lighter poundage, instead of anchoring at the corner of my mouth, like I always have.

I drew back about another 1.5 inches past the corner of my mouth and developed a new anchor.

That 1.5 inches came from more back tension.

Doing that lined me up even better than how I was shooting.

And it made me an even better shot.

So in reality, don't just say I'm going to anchor here every shot.

Apply that back tension and let that define where you anchor.

So a 70 year old dog can learn new tricks:)

Online moebow

  • Contributing Member
  • Trad Bowhunter
  • ***
  • Posts: 2471
Re: There is something to more back tension....
« Reply #1 on: August 31, 2018, 08:15:41 PM »
Be careful Roy! Arbitrary facial references don't NECESSARILY imply good back tension.  In my system, BT is based on bone on bone alignment, the back holding the bones in alignment.  Since your bones are only a certain length when aligned, your hand position cannot change UNLESS you transfer to muscle and open beyond bone alignment.

It MAY work for you but ...

Arne
11 H Hill bows
3 David Miller bows
4 James Berry bows
USA Archery, Level 4 NTS Coach

Are you willing to give up what you are; to become what you could be?

Online McDave

  • Contributing Member
  • Trad Bowhunter
  • ***
  • Posts: 4651
Re: There is something to more back tension....
« Reply #2 on: August 31, 2018, 08:42:18 PM »
Be careful Roy! Arbitrary facial references don't NECESSARILY imply good back tension.  In my system, BT is based on bone on bone alignment, the back holding the bones in alignment.  Since your bones are only a certain length when aligned, your hand position cannot change UNLESS you transfer to muscle and open beyond bone alignment.

It MAY work for you but ...

Arne

In line with your comments, I have noticed that BT is a difficult concept for some people to understand.  You have worked with people recently who keep reverting to the idea that draw length is variable.  I listen to your explanations carefully, because my own son seems to be in the same boat.  I have tried explaining BT to him, paraphrasing your explanations, Terry's J shaped draw, using the Formaster, pressing his elbow against a pole and the back of my hand, and we've watched and the Rod Jenkins DVD's together.  He's not trying to be obstinate; he would really like to “get it.”  But he can draw anywhere from 27-30” and end up in what appears to be good form with his elbow behind the arrow.

I don't know if you remember several years ago where there was someone on here who denied that back tension even existed.  At the time, and now, I don't think he was being facetious.  I don't think he could feel it, so he denied it existed.  It's kind of like my color blindness.  I can't see most shades of red and green; which makes me useless on blood trails.  But in this case, there are enough people who see those colors that I can't deny they exist; I just can't see them.
TGMM Family of the Bow

Would someone please make up my mind for me?

Online moebow

  • Contributing Member
  • Trad Bowhunter
  • ***
  • Posts: 2471
Re: There is something to more back tension....
« Reply #3 on: August 31, 2018, 08:54:04 PM »
Yes, Dave!  BT can easily be shown in person, but describing how to get it in words often eludes me. Drawing the bow is not muscle activation, rather it is levering the bones into alignment.

Then, BT builds from the start of the draw and not something you transition to.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

11 H Hill bows
3 David Miller bows
4 James Berry bows
USA Archery, Level 4 NTS Coach

Are you willing to give up what you are; to become what you could be?

Online Roy from Pa

  • Administrator
  • Trad Bowhunter
  • ****
  • Posts: 15597
Re: There is something to more back tension....
« Reply #4 on: September 01, 2018, 06:12:40 AM »
I understand that Arne.

I was implying that I wasn't getting complete bt because I was always anchoring at the corner of my mouth. But when I drew the bow further by applying more bt, it lined me up much better. I was suggesting to go for the bt and bone on bone alignment first, then determine an anchor based on that.

Thanks..

Online moebow

  • Contributing Member
  • Trad Bowhunter
  • ***
  • Posts: 2471
Re: There is something to more back tension....
« Reply #5 on: September 01, 2018, 07:42:35 AM »
"I was suggesting to go for the bt and bone on bone alignment first, then determine an anchor based on that."  !!!!!!!!!!!!!

There's the ticket for BT and Bone alignment in one sentence!!!  YES,YES!!!!

 :biglaugh: :biglaugh: :biglaugh: :archer2:

Arne
11 H Hill bows
3 David Miller bows
4 James Berry bows
USA Archery, Level 4 NTS Coach

Are you willing to give up what you are; to become what you could be?

Online Jim Casto Jr

  • Trad Bowhunter
  • **
  • Posts: 610
Re: There is something to more back tension....
« Reply #6 on: September 01, 2018, 08:53:05 AM »

...I was implying that I wasn't getting complete bt because I was always anchoring at the corner of my mouth. But when I drew the bow further by applying more bt, it lined me up much better. I was suggesting to go for the bt and bone on bone alignment first, then determine an anchor based on that...

There's one for the books.  :)  Excellent!
"Archery is really very simple. You just have to do the exact same thing on every shot."
Bill Leslie, July 22, 2017

"Form is everything." 
Al Cole, June 7, 2008

Online Roy from Pa

  • Administrator
  • Trad Bowhunter
  • ****
  • Posts: 15597
Re: There is something to more back tension....
« Reply #7 on: September 01, 2018, 08:56:10 AM »
Dave, I'm in the same boat on red / green color blind.

Been a few times the wife made me change clothes.

Guess my choice of colors didn't go well together.

LOL

Offline mistercmath

  • Trad Bowhunter
  • **
  • Posts: 20
Re: There is something to more back tension....
« Reply #8 on: September 01, 2018, 07:17:34 PM »
Roy,
Could it be, also, that you have been leaning your neck forward? In other words, your anchor at a shorter draw length, pre-back tension, could have indicated that you had not been standing with your neck erect. I see a lot of archers drawing while leaning their neck -- out of plumb -- toward the target. I seem to have a nice long draw, along with that feeling of bone alignment, with an anchor point at the corner of my mouth when I pay attention to my neck posture.

Just reflecting out loud and trying to get an idea of what others experience.

Stephen

Online Roy from Pa

  • Administrator
  • Trad Bowhunter
  • ****
  • Posts: 15597
Re: There is something to more back tension....
« Reply #9 on: September 02, 2018, 05:34:12 AM »
Stephen I understand what you are saying.

But I've always held my head erect when shooting.

Years ago I just started anchoring at the corner of my mouth.

I shoot pretty well so figured all was good.

But after my last bow came out a few pounds light and I started drawing past my normal anchor point, things seemed to get much better.

And that's when Arne's words of wisdom really sunk in.

Did I mention I'm a slow learner?

LOL

Online starshooter

  • Trad Bowhunter
  • **
  • Posts: 152
Re: There is something to more back tension....
« Reply #10 on: September 02, 2018, 12:45:25 PM »
I guess it’s an issue of bio- mechanics for me.  Sorry for intruding on this discussion. As Arnie has said many times it’s not the arbitrary facial point that
you assign yourself rather it’s the sweet spot ( back tension and skeletal alignment)  that powers consistent shooting. Still trying to get confidence with it.
Thanks.
64” Howard Hill “Redman”  46” @26”
66” Jet Archery “Jaguar” 42#@ 26”
52” Java Man “Helms Deep”  41#@ 26”

Offline rutro

  • Trad Bowhunter
  • **
  • Posts: 16
Re: There is something to more back tension....
« Reply #11 on: September 07, 2018, 03:09:03 PM »
  Roy you're not the only slow learner here. I am dyslexic so everything gets bass ackwards the first time. The video of Moe's about bone alignment and the one about the draw and incorporating back tension are what finally straightened me out. I have a bit more draw than I thought. So I'm relocating the "anchor" I was using. I can tell when everything is right by how steady the arrow becomes. Like it just stops moving. The first time it happened I was dumb struck. But it was no fluke. Now since my old bad back has no flexibility at the waist I had a problem trying to aim up or down. If I raise my bow arm I get out of alignment. So I started bending a knee. It works. Have not perfected that yet, but I was wondering if anyone else has done this?   

Online moebow

  • Contributing Member
  • Trad Bowhunter
  • ***
  • Posts: 2471
Re: There is something to more back tension....
« Reply #12 on: September 07, 2018, 06:47:14 PM »
Yes rutro!! a very acceptable alternative!  Maintain the "T" however you can!!!!

Arne
11 H Hill bows
3 David Miller bows
4 James Berry bows
USA Archery, Level 4 NTS Coach

Are you willing to give up what you are; to become what you could be?

Users currently browsing this topic:

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
 

Contact Us | Trad Gang.com © | User Agreement

Copyright 2003 thru 2019 ~ Trad Gang.com ©