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Author Topic: Deep Hook... not fishing related  (Read 1864 times)

Online OkKeith

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Deep Hook... not fishing related
« on: April 26, 2018, 07:34:41 PM »
My switch to the tab has gone well. I was re-reading some posts and several reference tabs made for a "Deep Hook". With my glove I shot with the string placed in the first (from the tip end) knuckle crease. Is a deep hook referencing placement of the string in the second knuckle crease? What is the advantages to that?

I have learned that a tab is a lot easier to misplace than a glove. The glove is on your hand and you just go about your business. The tab always seems to be in the way or at the bottom of my pack.

Thank you to everyone that helped with my transition.

OkKeith
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Offline Dan Jones

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Re: Deep Hook... not fishing related
« Reply #1 on: April 26, 2018, 08:22:22 PM »
There is some confusion surrounding the term "deep hook," but in general it means placing the bowstring in the first crease of the fingers, as opposed to placing the bowstring on the fingertips.

Online mahantango

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Re: Deep Hook... not fishing related
« Reply #2 on: April 26, 2018, 08:56:31 PM »
Deep hook refers more to the finger tips pointing back at you when gripping the string. Where the string falls in the creases will take care of itself.
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Online McDave

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Re: Deep Hook... not fishing related
« Reply #3 on: April 26, 2018, 08:59:05 PM »
I have learned that a tab is a lot easier to misplace than a glove. The glove is on your hand and you just go about your business. The tab always seems to be in the way or at the bottom of my pack.

That’s why you have to have a number of them, here and there, like extra pairs of reading glasses.

A deep hook also means the amount of hook you put into your fingers, in addition to where you hold the string.  They say you should hook your fingers until the tips point back at you. At my age, that would be impossible, but I do add a little more firmness to the grasp.

I think you can only determine the string placement by experimentation, but I doubt that it works better for many people between the first and second finger joints.
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Offline ChuckC

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Re: Deep Hook... not fishing related
« Reply #4 on: April 27, 2018, 08:53:31 AM »
Going a little deeper.  I am gonna guess why.... however you grab the string, there is a certain amount of stress you place upon your finger / hand / arm system.  Synonymous to that placed upon the bow holding hand, when grasping the bow.  There are ways to ergonomically hold or address the string ( or bow) that allows you to use a minimal amount of muscle tension to do it.  In the case f holding the bow, bone alignment allows you to more easily, with less strain, hold the bow in the proper position for a shot then... say... holding the bow with the crook of the thumb only and a very bent arm.   

For the string hand, if you use the tips of your fingers, as seems best at first glance ( less glove / tab interference) there is an increase in the tension of the hand and also an increased tendency to not hold that hand in the same position with each shot, especially as you get fatigued.  A deeper hook, especially one that essentially formed as you address the string and not adjusted afterward as you pull back and anchor, can allow for a more relaxed hold, a more repeatable hold and a smoother release since you are able to just relax the hold instead of physically "releasing".   In addition, once you get the hold, you can work on using your arm and back to supply the bulk of the holding power,  allowing the hand to simply relax for the release and not move away ( to the side of) from the face or other anchor point at the loose.  Often, with a finger tip release, it is more difficult to engage the back and easier to " release" by opening the hand, which can take it away from the face.

I find that there is a vast difference in results between your string hand moving back toward your shoulder, in line with the arrow, at the release and with  the hand moving away from the face on a sidewise plane because the back was not very involved or the position of the string hand forced or allowed  "release" instead of just letting go.

Very easy to say, sometimes not near as easy to do.   With a lot of this, the words and the descriptions are the easy part, while the actions and even understanding the descriptions is the hard part.  An example is "using the back".    Well of course the back muscles are used.  Almost have to be do draw a heavier bow back.  BUT... once you get what they are trying to describe, it is a very obvious concept.   "Getting it", is not always easy.  "Doing it"  is also not always easy.

Same can be said for the whole aiming scheme.   It is easy.... once you "get it" but it is sometimes difficult to "keep it".

At least..... this is my take on it.

Offline Dan Jones

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Re: Deep Hook... not fishing related
« Reply #5 on: April 27, 2018, 11:26:05 AM »
The more I bend my finngertips back toward me, the more tension it induces in my whole draw hand. And the further astray the arrows go.

Online McDave

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Re: Deep Hook... not fishing related
« Reply #6 on: April 28, 2018, 11:11:27 AM »
The more I bend my finngertips back toward me, the more tension it induces in my whole draw hand. And the further astray the arrows go.

I agree.  My fingertips just don’t work that way anymore.  So I hook them as much as I comfortably can without inducing extra tension in my hand, which at least gets them to a right angle to the string, if not pointed back at me.  I find that I am more accurate that way than I am if I just put the minimum amount of hook needed to keep them from slipping off the string.
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Offline Tedd

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Re: Deep Hook... not fishing related
« Reply #7 on: May 29, 2018, 09:41:22 PM »
I was just playing with this tonight. I have been shooting with a lesser hook and trying to have no tension in my string hand for a long time. Lately I have been spraying arrows around and shooting too quickly. Tonight  I gripped the string with hard claw. And shot with firm tension in my string arm and and anchored into my face hard. And started stacking them in there easily.
I think sometimes you have to change it up. For now I'm using the claw.
I think in extreme cold it can be hard to release when you have a deep hook because by the end of deer season I'm always back to shooting off my finger tips.
Tedd

Offline fnshtr

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Re: Deep Hook... not fishing related
« Reply #8 on: August 21, 2018, 11:58:27 AM »
Very interesting comment Tedd! I too shoot mostly from my finger tips. I have always understood that a deep hook is supposed to be better (less tension in the release hand and forearm), but I guess I’m stubborn.  :knothead:

I’ve been shooting a lot lately and my fingertips were sore last evening. So I “changed up” to the deep hook (or claw), and not only did it not hurt my fingers, I shot better.

I just need more confidence in that deep hook I guess.
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Online Tony Van Dort

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Re: Deep Hook... not fishing related
« Reply #9 on: August 22, 2018, 04:46:02 AM »
The more I bend my finngertips back toward me, the more tension it induces in my whole draw hand. And the further astray the arrows go.

I agree.  My fingertips just don’t work that way anymore.  So I hook them as much as I comfortably can without inducing extra tension in my hand, which at least gets them to a right angle to the string, if not pointed back at me.  I find that I am more accurate that way than I am if I just put the minimum amount of hook needed to keep them from slipping off the string.

Yep...same here
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Offline Wolftrail

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Re: Deep Hook... not fishing related
« Reply #10 on: September 01, 2018, 06:43:46 PM »
Since I started using a deep hook my grouping has improved.  All things considered my biggest fault is dropping the release hand and anchoring.

Online McDave

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Re: Deep Hook... not fishing related
« Reply #11 on: September 01, 2018, 07:22:25 PM »
Since I started using a deep hook my grouping has improved.  All things considered my biggest fault is dropping the release hand and anchoring.

What happens when you drop your release hand?  I have occasional high misses, and I suppose if I dropped my release hand, it could pull down on the string which would cause the arrow to miss high.  I’m looking for the cause of this.  My current theories don’t seem to be panning out.
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Offline Wolftrail

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Re: Deep Hook... not fishing related
« Reply #12 on: September 05, 2018, 07:21:53 PM »
Since I started using a deep hook my grouping has improved.  All things considered my biggest fault is dropping the release hand and anchoring.

What happens when you drop your release hand?  I have occasional high misses, and I suppose if I dropped my release hand, it could pull down on the string which would cause the arrow to miss high.  I’m looking for the cause of this.  My current theories don’t seem to be panning out.

"occasional high misses"  I think that pretty well sums it up with me to. 

Offline Tajue17

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Re: Deep Hook... not fishing related
« Reply #13 on: September 07, 2018, 07:14:40 AM »
I use a deep hook which is what i copied from ron leclair,,, you lose a few fps but you cain "zero" string creep and i found with using what i was taught to be the correct "deep hook" is changing from glove to glove or even going from a well worn in glove to a brandnew one is not really a problem...... when i shot with a deep "relaxed" hook getting used to one perticular glove WAS a problem.

Like Ron Clairs style my deep hook is pretty
Much the string on the middle finger pad between the first and second knuckles and the. Almost a fully closed fist,,,,, this style locks in the anchor and the string roles out nice because its not pinched in the crease..  my accuracy got alot better when i we t to this style..
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Offline Don Stokes

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Re: Deep Hook... not fishing related
« Reply #14 on: September 17, 2018, 08:54:44 AM »
Dan Quillian taught me the "deep hook" style. What he meant by it was holding the string all the way into the crease of the first knuckle, as opposed to using the end finger pads to pull. The deep hook allows you to pull without excess tension in the drawing hand which pulls the arrow off the shelf. He also advocated the pull-through release, done by a hesitation at anchor to get solidly on target, then pulling with back muscles as the drawing hand it relaxed. The arrow is "aimed" at the target during the draw, so no lengthy stop to aim is needed at full draw. Properly done, the drawing hand moves back along the face after release, and not out away from the face.

I have a leather tab Dan gave me that he had been using for a while, and you can see that he hooked into the first knuckle crease.
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