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Author Topic: Heavy EFOC Carbon Arrows  (Read 577 times)

Offline outdoorsforlife

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Heavy EFOC Carbon Arrows
« on: April 28, 2014, 03:29:00 PM »
I have two new types of Carbon Arrows and I'm going to explore EFOC (Extreme Forward of Center) weights in the front of the arrows.  Does anyone have experience with this.  

I shoot 160 grain broad heads, with 100 grain adapters.  
I shoot 250 grain field tips to simulate these broadheads.

I have a 28 inch draw at 50 lbs.

The first set of arrows is a set of 400 Warrior 400 8.2 gpi with 50 grain inserts. Starting out 32 5/16 inches long.

I was thinking of glueing two 98 grain 6mm bullets into the front end of the arrow while glueing in the adapter.  I was thinking of leaving the arrows at factory length and slicing them 1/2 inch from the back as I test them.  I've zero experience doing bareshaft tuning... but I'll fletch two and have two bareshaft and do some testing.

The next set is Carbon Express 250s with point inserts type 2  11 grains, 33 inches long from nock center, 11 grains per inch.

If anyone has experience ... let know.

Offline Dog Walker

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Re: Heavy EFOC Carbon Arrows
« Reply #1 on: April 28, 2014, 07:29:00 PM »
I tried the 6 mm bullet idea.  I had the insert in already.  I removed the nock and put a small amount of silicone on the back, or flat end of bullet. Using a 3/16" round bar as a ramrod, I pushed the bullet up against the insert backwards.  Seemed to work ok on a couple of broad head tests, then the arrow flew all over the place in a crazy set of lopes. It seems the extreme impact hitting the butt, dislodged the bullet and it moved all over the place inside the shaft. I won't be doing that again.
Cari-Bow Tuktu Ex 55#@28"
TT Pinnacle II 55#@28"

Offline trubltrubl

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Re: Heavy EFOC Carbon Arrows
« Reply #2 on: April 28, 2014, 09:43:00 PM »
forget the bullets ....use brass inserts and adapter and broadhead...250 heritage are stiff for a 50 lb bow ..if it is center shot not as big a deal...I use heritage 150 with most my bows...when you get close to 60 lbs then maybe 250's
my drawlength is 26 and I cut the carbon at 27.5 ..the adapter adds another 1/2 inch or so...

Offline outdoorsforlife

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Re: Heavy EFOC Carbon Arrows
« Reply #3 on: April 30, 2014, 12:34:00 AM »
I think I may take these back and get the 150's.  Thanks guys for your experience.

Offline trubltrubl

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Re: Heavy EFOC Carbon Arrows
« Reply #4 on: April 30, 2014, 03:00:00 PM »
I like brass inserts to get the weight up...if you can't find any..use the broadhead adapters and a glue on broadhead....I alway shoot for 600 to 630 grains total arrow weight

Offline calgarychef

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Re: Heavy EFOC Carbon Arrows
« Reply #5 on: April 30, 2014, 09:23:00 PM »
I shoot carbon express 250's with 300 grains up front cut to about 29" and I draw 27 1/2". They shoot very well out of my Center shot ACS (53 lb. @ 28").   I had to build out the window with one layer of Velcro on top of the layer that's already there.
  My 63# limbs shoot 350's with 350/400 grains up front nicely.


I suspect that most of Brads bows aren't Center shot because of the style of bow he shoots (and shoots very well). That's why the 150's work well.  The one thing with an arrow too stiff is you can always leave them a bit long or plunk more weight on the end to tune them.

Offline calgarychef

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Re: Heavy EFOC Carbon Arrows
« Reply #6 on: May 01, 2014, 05:37:00 PM »
I just had a brainwave, if you want to come over and try the 250's all set up with inserts you're welcome to drop by.

Offline albertan

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Re: Heavy EFOC Carbon Arrows
« Reply #7 on: May 01, 2014, 06:32:00 PM »
Check out the Alaskan Bowhunting Company website.  They have great articles on EFOC as well as the single/double bevel broadhead theories, etc.  Took in their seminars at SCI in Las Vegas - lots of information.  I had won some of their 150 gr Silver Flames at the last ATBA Jamboree and have put them on their Alaskan shafts.  30", 150 gr bhead with their standard 73 gr insert plus another 100 gr.  703 gr total.  140 fps out of my 50# bow.  FOC is 21.7%.  Kinetic energy is 30.6 ft lbs and momentum is 43.7 slug ft/sec.  Not fast but lots of whooompf when it gets there.  Will see if a nice black bear gets in the way this spring.
Brent
2015 Alberta Bowhunters Assoc. President

Offline trubltrubl

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Re: Heavy EFOC Carbon Arrows
« Reply #8 on: May 01, 2014, 09:08:00 PM »
Gord with your 28 inch draw the heritage 250 should work....

Offline bloubow

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Re: Heavy EFOC Carbon Arrows
« Reply #9 on: May 06, 2014, 12:14:00 AM »
I like extra weight. But on top of adding in front I have been inserting a length of small bungee cord pushing it all the way to the inserts to the front of the arrow.   I  cut it about 1 inche longer then the shaft  then insert the nock back in.  The reason for the extra length is that it stop the ratelling of the cord in the arrow.  Having a rubber cord prevent the kick back of the nock if you hit something hard. It is also heavy it brings my arrows to about 755 grains, adding about 155 grains per arrows.. I use the biggest bungee cord that I can fit easily in the shaft. This way you still have a heavier arrow with still a lot of FOC. If you used brass inserts and heavy BH....
It is cheap, easy, and if you don't like it you just have to pull them out by just pulling the nock off.
Yves   :archer2:

Offline adamgti

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Re: Heavy EFOC Carbon Arrows
« Reply #10 on: May 09, 2014, 02:32:00 PM »
31" Victory archery VAP 250
300 gr head, 92 gr insert, 300 gr shaft= 740gr Arrow

25.5 % FOC and a dynamic spine in the mid to upper 60#

The above is a recipe I worked on for a centre shot recurve. The plan was to order the 50 gr and 92 gr inserts and play with tuning with point weight.


In my experience EFOC is really really hard to Do! hahhahah

You basically need a stiff enough shaft, but it needs to be around 10 gpi. I feel like mid 60#s and 650-700 total arrow weight requires a 250-300 shaft full length, 50-60 # is for me a full length 300 shaft, to get around 25% and up.

You’re lucky Gord. You can basically make as heavy an arrow as you want. 250 spine with 40000000000 grs up front  :)
Quartermoon 62" r/d longbow 53# @ 29"

Offline JNewman

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Re: Heavy EFOC Carbon Arrows
« Reply #11 on: May 11, 2014, 09:08:00 PM »
I have constantly been playing with carbon shafts and heavy weight forward.  Here are some of my success and failures.

I shoot a center shot recurve bow 54 lbs at 30"

I tried the bullet behind the insert.  it is great for adding both weight forward and strength to the front of the shaft however I found about the only way to secure the little sucker is to epoxy the bullet in place.  it stays there, but forever.

I can shoot power flight 340's with a 50 grain insert and a 190 broadhead on a aluminum adapter.  like 27% forward and a 625gr arrow.  lots of FOC but a little heavy for my bow.  Recurves are not known to throw a heavy shaft great distance, now I can see it for myself.

I am currently using gold tip trads 31", 50gr brass insert, 175gr tip. gives me 19% foc (not real high) 540gr arrow and great flight.
EFOC takes a lot of work to get a really nice tune out of. lots of patience and testing. at the end of the day clean flight and total arrow weight mean more to me than FOC  

one thing I have found is that if I get a carbon shaft that works with high foc (15%-20%)I can try to find a lighter shaft in the same spine with the same set up at the front.  usually gives you a couple more % up front.

Good luck with your playing, just remember to keep it fun.

  :coffee:

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