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Author Topic: Hunter Education Bogus?  (Read 1349 times)

Offline toddster

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Re: Hunter Education Bogus?
« Reply #20 on: December 21, 2016, 09:33:00 AM »
The answer lay's with your State Legislation.  I am an Illinois Hunter Ed instructor and old enough to never needed to take it.  But, did because go out west and hunt.  One thing "we" hunters did in Illinois is to educate the legistlators, and they amended the law to where if you are a veteran, you can take the online portion and be done.

Offline Sam McMichael

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Re: Hunter Education Bogus?
« Reply #21 on: December 21, 2016, 05:04:00 PM »
This has been an interesting and useful thread. After hearing of the experiences of many, here is how I would design a class. It would not be online.

1. A lot of content would be based on safety, ethics, regulations, game identification and such topics.

2. At the end of the classroom section, there would be a weapons proficiency test. Any body failing this test would be required to attend and pass a weapons specific seminar. This would not be geared toward military trained firearms experts, but would be geared towards competency in safe handling.

I know this would never be accepted, because, as has been said, most people feel they just don't have the time to be bothered with it all. However, I don't feel that simply paying and sitting for the test does not automatically buy a certificate. I have been pleased to read many of the responses here by people who have actually taught these classes that they insist on performance as well.

I wish DNR could become involved in things like Boy Scout summer camps and other similar institutions and include courses in the week's activities. That might not be feasible, though. I also support free classes for veterans but not for exempting them from the class. Just a few more thoughts on all this.
Sam

Online Bowwild

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Re: Hunter Education Bogus?
« Reply #22 on: January 01, 2017, 09:02:00 AM »
Hunter Safety Education has always been a very strong argument to people who think hunting and hunters is/are unsafe (it and they aren't by the way, -unsafe).  

When my now 37 year old son was 10, I signed him up for Hunter Education in the state we lived in at the time.   My age precluded me from having to take it. I was curious how much my son had learned from me, simply tagging along and from all the conversations he and I had about hunting and firearms safety.    I was not a hunter education or bowhunter education instructor at the time. I was merely a dad eat up with hunting with a son who loved tagging along and talking about it with me. We remain very close today - he lives across the creek and woods from me that I'm looking at as I type this post.

As an experiment, I was able to give him the exam before he took the class. He scored a 96 (I was pleasantly surprised by the way).

When he took the class a few days later (me with him) he scored a 98 on the exam (missed one). I also scored a 98. We both missed the same question, how moving the REAR sight on a firearm affects point of impact. Archery (front sight vs. rear sight) was why I missed the question and I was, of course the reason my son missed it.

Obvious lesson is that quality time spent with our children is extremely effective. By the way, I've used this anecdote many times over a 30-year state wildlife biologist/director in policy discussions about Hunter Education.

My son and I both took the class again in Kansas just for fun.  I included him in one of my Bowhunter Education classes when he was 32 years old.

There is no substitute for proper parental guidance. I will readily admit there are some parents who need a lot of guidance themselves. I fear a poacher begets a poacher?  If the parent climbs a fence with a firearm or puts a loaded one in the truck, etc.   So, in those cases maybe a quality HE instructor has a chance to break that chain?

Several years ago a survey was conducted to determine the recruitment or barrier impacts of Hunter Education.  It was found that  hunter education is a barrier that 2% of would be hunters aren't willing to surmount.

The one thing I wish could be removed from some hunter education classes is the bias of some instructors.  Some instructors stray from the lesson plan and inject their own opinions. Some of those opinions are invaluable, some aren't.  I'd gladly give up the valuable ones for the bad advice.

I'm a fan of on-line courses although I've never taken one.  One of the reasons I like on-line (besides the convenience) is the standardization in represents ... only the facts please. Some may argue that hunting is important enough for a wannabe to undergo some inconvenience.  I don't disagree.  Imagine the liability agencies would incur if they dropped hunter education requirements completely and then the non-certified and non-mentored hunter is hurt or hurts someone?

I'm even a bigger fan of the new "Mentor" laws that allow a would be hunter to go with a hunter education certified person the first year. Then, if they want to continue hunting, they have to take a course. This let's hunting sell itself before asking your neighbor, son-in-law, etc. who might have only a mild interest in hunting to try it before spending 10 hours of precious time taking a course. Some who take HE courses never follow up hunting.  These laws are so smart.

For years wildlife officials implored hunters to invite their neighbors, friends, and co-workers to keep hunter numbers strong. I've had such discussions with those non-hunters. You invite them to go and they agree, until they find out they have to spend 2-5 nights/week to take and pass  a Hunter Education class.   This kept my son-in-law out of hunting for nearly 8 years (he was overseas military most of that time).  Now they can try hunting in more than half the states through these mentor laws ($5 permit plus proper licenses here in KY). The agency can then track whether or not that mentored hunter takes Hunter Education later.
If the mind wanders, so too will the arrow.

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Offline Deno

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Re: Hunter Education Bogus?
« Reply #23 on: January 03, 2017, 06:17:00 AM »
Lots of really good points there Roy. I like the idea of mentor laws. Sounds good to me.  Not sure if NJ has that.

Deno
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Offline YosemiteSam

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Re: Hunter Education Bogus?
« Reply #24 on: January 05, 2017, 03:04:00 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Bowwild:
Hunter Safety Education has always been a very strong argument to people who think hunting and hunters is/are unsafe (it and they aren't by the way, -unsafe).  

 
I talked to a local politician & hunter about a year ago who laughingly told me a story about how he & his buddies got so drunk sitting around their hunting camp that they took a shot at "something in the bushes" and almost shot one of their buddies.  He was thinking I'd find that funny or somehow relate.  It only confirmed how much I detest politicians.  I've heard plenty of stories over the years -- they're not all that rare.  I hate to say it but hunters are all too often our worst enemies.  I love to hunt.  But I avoid other hunters as much as possible while in the field out here.  It's a stereotype but one that has kept me safe from the crazies during the rifle season.

Granted, it's probably more a CA thing.  I've met some truly good people in AR while hunting.  And hunters who use self-imposed limits (traditional archery, muzzleloaders, even single-shot rifles) tend to be of a much kindly sort.
"A good hunter...that's somebody the animals COME to."
"Every animal knows way more than you do." -- by a Koyukon hunter, as quoted by R. Nelson.

Online Bowwild

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Re: Hunter Education Bogus?
« Reply #25 on: November 09, 2017, 08:14:00 AM »
Update: My son-in-law went deer hunting with me with his Mentor permit. It was his first hunting experience, if I discount a pigeon shoot at an Arizona dairy farm.

He killed two deer with me. Can't say more about that because of the equipment preferences here.

The next year he took Hunter Education (on-line and field day). I've taken him hunting twice so far this year and will be taking him again over Thanksgiving.

The mentor permit allowed hunting to sell itself. He likes it!
If the mind wanders, so too will the arrow.

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Offline ChuckC

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Re: Hunter Education Bogus?
« Reply #26 on: November 17, 2017, 07:48:00 PM »
Roy, Wisconsin has a mentor system as well, which I like, but the Gov just signed a bill allowing each to have a firearm in possession ( formerly, only one per mentor / mentee group was allowed).

My hunter ed group dislikes that.  Any thoughts from down south ?  Our biggest point... why does the mentor need a weapon if it is the mentee that is hunting ?

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