INFO: Trad Archery for Bowhunters



Author Topic: Crossbows will be legal soon?  (Read 283 times)

Offline MAT

  • Trad Bowhunter
  • **
  • Posts: 160
Crossbows will be legal soon?
« on: January 30, 2013, 07:58:00 PM »
http://www.outdoornews.com/January-2013/No-let-off-in-sight-on-crossbow-issue/  

Did you guys read the articles in the latest WON about meeting organized by Kaz, a huge HRC supporter (and WBH life member) with select organizations to “get in front” of xbow legislation?  The WBH was there, but they reported that the group reached consensus (which means all agree?) that  xbows would be allowed during the entire archery season.  Is this for real, why did the WBH agree to this?  It seems like a foregone conclusion we will see legislation soon.  The WON editor said in his column that he was even surprised (and I think he’s pro xbow) saying that he understands the WBH is opposed to xbows during the archery season so wouldn’t it have been better to support the 55 and over idea?

So it seems the HRC is pushing legislation to legalize xbows for the archery season (and it seems they brought in the NRA to help).  Let’s not forget a few years ago WON reported the HRC threatened the WBH if they didn’t support the bear bill they would push for xbow legislation. One legislator called the bear bill anti-bowhunting in a hearing. That didn’t stop the WBH  from supporting it and apparently they were rewarded with the lesser weapons bill, something a few of us, including the WTA board thought was a very bad idea and opposed. So now it seem the HRC is stabbing the WBH in the back and they still agree to full inclusion?  It seems like the lesser weapons bill did nothing to protect the archery season. I just don’t don't get it.

Offline smoke1953

  • Trad Bowhunter
  • **
  • Posts: 1202
Re: Crossbows will be legal soon?
« Reply #1 on: January 30, 2013, 08:57:00 PM »
Matt, I attended that meeting representing WTA and expressed our opposition not only to their full inclusion but also to any concurrent season. I did have to leave after two hours so I'm not sure what might have transpired after I left. WBH did quote all the appropriate statistics from Ohio and Michigan such as 55% of the bow kills in Ohio are now from crossbows. They indicated their opposition to crossbows in the archery season but in the same breath proposed the compromise concurrent season with limits on total deer taken. The crossbow lobby objected to this compromise while I was there anyway.

The NRA used arguments that you've heard before, that we're losing hunters and crossbows would help. It was implied that more women and young people would get involved but we know that is not the reason. I mentioned that you only had to see all the young people involved this last year in Wis Rapids with the National Archery in the Schools Program competition, 750 kids of all ages to, realize that our future is not in the crossbow but making efforts to get a bow and arrow in their hands and the excitement we experienced when we were young would naturally evolve. They also brought up the argument, without me prompting the issue, that we are so quick to argue that their equipment is not a bow
yet ironically they needed the NRA there to support their position.

It was obvious to me that the compromise proposed is solely due to fear of the NRA's influence in this matter. NRA was present by conference call from Washington DC and I'm convinced that was for effect for the 3 legislators in the room. I'm not sure what will come of this but I'm also am not convinced that it is a given in Wisconsin that crossbows will become part of our archery season. It's worth the fight and it's worth it for Wisconsin economically to  protect the archery season even if all other states cave to the influence.

Offline papawoody

  • Trad Bowhunter
  • **
  • Posts: 73
Re: Crossbows will be legal soon?
« Reply #2 on: February 01, 2013, 08:28:00 PM »
If the the WBH did agree to this im going to have to think twice about renewing or supporting them in any way.
62" 54@28 costom Big River longbow
66" 54@28 Big River longbow
60" 53@28 Big River recurve
Compton Traditional Archers
Wisconsin Traditional Archers
Wisconsin Bowhunters
Neosho Archers

Offline Whip

  • Moderator
  • Trad Bowhunter
  • ***
  • Posts: 8160
Re: Crossbows will be legal soon?
« Reply #3 on: February 01, 2013, 11:34:00 PM »
From what I understand WBH opposes inclusion of crossbows as an allowable weapon during the archery season. But they are in favor of a separate season for crossbows which would run for some length of time right during the archery season.  

How long the proposed crossbow season would be, and how long would it be before they come back and want the same season length bowhunters enjoy remains to be seen.

For the record, WTA opposes both ideas.

I had more comments on here that reflected my own personal views on the subject.  But I have gone back and deleted them.  Better to keep the conversation on track, and if you have opinions on what you think should be done please express those to the WBH leadership, WTA, and most of all, your legislators.
PBS Regular Member
WTA Life Member
In the end, it is not the years in your life that count. It's the life in your years. Abraham Lincoln.

Offline Mike Theis

  • Trad Bowhunter
  • **
  • Posts: 280
Re: Crossbows will be legal soon?
« Reply #4 on: February 02, 2013, 11:14:00 PM »
The little local archery club that I belong to has lost faith in the WBH. It has been a 100% club since at least the mid 70's, if not before that. Not once has a representative come to a meeting or gathering to talk to us. We have felt for sometime that it is not representing us as bowhunters, and certainly not asking for any input. We have gone from making a prerequisite of the club that every member belong to the WBH, to membership on an optional basis. I will be drafting the letter this week to inform them of this decision from the membership. More and more of our membership flat out refuse to be a WBH member.
If man were to know everything in advance, there would be no such thing as adventure!

Offline MAT

  • Trad Bowhunter
  • **
  • Posts: 160
Re: Crossbows will be legal soon?
« Reply #5 on: February 06, 2013, 01:19:00 PM »
Smoke -  I don’t see how they can be stopped.  Legislators just don’t show up for the free lunch they want something, and it seems they got it.  Now we have question 66 for the spring hearings that’s either separate xbow season, or full inclusion.  No other choice!  Now that speaks of a done deal.  Not that it matters, Act 21 neutered the Cons Congress and many were all too happy to dance in celebration.  They claimed the spring hearings were not representative, yet now they are our only hope to get us to a “compromise” separate season that will not last more than a year before full inclusion.  The door never should been opened by suggesting the idea of a separate xbow season.   The WTA certainly recognized the danger, but apparently we were the only ones.

Even though all the facts are on our side the words were spoken, documented in writing, and a plan formed all apparently with consensus from the state’s largest bowhunting group.  And the only choices are bad, and worse.   But that’s not the end.  What I fear most is the HRC/NRA will now push for an early muzzleloader season.  A few years ago in the EAB alternatives committee the HRC and WBH proposed a 4 day either sex muzzleloader season in October (I have the actual proposal if you want it).  I didn’t get that either.  Then we will be fighting 600,000 gun hunters and the NRA.  

Any group wanting to stop the madness is going to have to stand up and tell the NRA to stick to 2nd amendment issues and quit pitting hunters against each other.   Our best bet would be to use the media to point this out as that’s the ONLY leverage we have, and it can go a long way as the NRA should be focused on bigger issues right now anyway.  This could be something the WTA might want to consider.  Would be great of the WBH stood up too.  Why would anyone get intimidated by the NRA anyway?  

To read Question #66 -

 http://dnr.wi.gov/About/WCC/Documents/spring_hearing/2013/2013SpringQuestionnaireFinal.pdf

Offline Whip

  • Moderator
  • Trad Bowhunter
  • ***
  • Posts: 8160
Re: Crossbows will be legal soon?
« Reply #6 on: February 07, 2013, 01:50:00 PM »
There actually is another choice on the questions Mark.  You can mark NO to both of them!  

Good point about the muzzleloaders too.  No doubt in my mind that they would want to be included in an earlier season.

It infuriates me that NRA has stuck their nose in this battle.  I would like to support their efforts to protect the second amendment.  But I won't give them a nickel when they are stepping beyond their mission and getting involved in something that has nothing to do with guns.  

And to top it off the legislators are so eager to grovel and bow before the NRA that they allow them to come in and testify at the hearings using video conferencing.  They didn't even go through the trouble of sending a spokesman to appear personally, and they end up with more clout than a group of Wisconsin sportsmen.
PBS Regular Member
WTA Life Member
In the end, it is not the years in your life that count. It's the life in your years. Abraham Lincoln.

Offline beaunaro

  • Trad Bowhunter
  • **
  • Posts: 759
Re: Crossbows will be legal soon?
« Reply #7 on: February 08, 2013, 10:15:00 AM »
If this is all true, then I'm out of the NRA and the WBH membership. I'm also going to suggest to our 101% club...Bentshaft Bowhunters...in Verona to do what Mike's group did near Lodi. That is to drop the 101% support. I'll be spreading the word when I return from my Florida hog guiding job this Spring.

Irv Eichorst
Irv Eichorst

Online Greg Szalewski

  • Trad Bowhunter
  • **
  • Posts: 1262
Re: Crossbows will be legal soon?
« Reply #8 on: February 08, 2013, 01:32:00 PM »
I have already dropped my NRA membership last year after over 30 yrs but I think the WBH is getting a bad rap on this. They have been involved in this trying to preserve our bow season. I will be going to the WBH conv. this year to find out more. They still are the biggest bowhunting org. in the state and do try to look out for us. I have not agreed with them on all issues but unless i am willing to step up and get more involved I will just have to support them as a member. Before you go spreading the word talk to Mike Brust or another officer on what is really going on(that is what I am going to do). I would hate to see a volenteer org. like the WBH damaged on hearsay.
PBS Regular, Ask me about The Professional Bowhunters Society; we stand for ethics.
Past President, Wisconsin Traditional Archers
Life member, Wisconsin Bowhunters
Sherwood Forest
Traditional Bowhunters of Florida
Michigan Traditional Bowhunters

Offline MAT

  • Trad Bowhunter
  • **
  • Posts: 160
Re: Crossbows will be legal soon?
« Reply #9 on: February 08, 2013, 02:06:00 PM »
I hope there is more to this story, but I only know what I read in WON and online, and none of it looks good.  The most recent editor's column in WON called out the WBH pretty bad for caving to the HRC.  As for quesion #66, I did not see a no vote.  Not voting is not a no.

Our only hope is to publically call out the NRA and let them know they are losing members over this.  I also quit the NRA a few payments shy of a life membership when they did the same in PA a few years ago.  The WBH should call out the HRC too, they do not represent hunters either, IMO all they are is a political group to support legislators who want things they can't get through the spring hearings.  

A few strongly worded press releases from the WBH and WTA would go a long way to help the NRA get the message. The media would jump on any controversy with the NRA right now.  All of us should directly contact the NRA too.  Other than that there's not much the WBH can do, the legislators won't care if they reverse their stance now.  Only if we hold the NRA and HRC accountable for this will we have any hope.

Offline Whip

  • Moderator
  • Trad Bowhunter
  • ***
  • Posts: 8160
Re: Crossbows will be legal soon?
« Reply #10 on: February 08, 2013, 02:21:00 PM »
As I have understood it Greg, both from correspondences previously and from Bruce's report of the meeting in Madison, WBH is in support of a seperate season for crossbows.  The thought is that a seperate season might prevent them from becoming fully included as an acceptable weapon under the regular archery tag.  They definately are opposed to the idea that crossbows should be included in the archery season.  
Is that not their position?  If I have it wrong I sure would like to know.
WTA remains opposed to both ideas.
PBS Regular Member
WTA Life Member
In the end, it is not the years in your life that count. It's the life in your years. Abraham Lincoln.

Offline Mike Theis

  • Trad Bowhunter
  • **
  • Posts: 280
Re: Crossbows will be legal soon?
« Reply #11 on: February 08, 2013, 08:55:00 PM »
As far as fighting the questions as presented at the spring hearings.

Can not a separate question be presented at each meeting, read then voted on? As in submitted to each county? I believe there is a procedure for this.

This may sound dumb, but if worded honestly for a direct yes or no answer, instead of a choices that appear to offer the lesser of two evils, it may show the other questions for what they are.

The question should be something like, 'Do you want to keep crossbows in the firearm seasons as they are now?' Yes or No?

If each county shows an overwhelming Yes vote, then it won't matter what the other questions say.

Plus, I hate it when they put these at the end of the night. So many leave before hand, the numbers dwindle so the vote is affected by a small cross section of those who stuck it out. At least the wolf question is later. Maybe a few 'anti's' will stick it out, and also vote no on crossbows. Sounds weird, but it may happen that way in Dane county.
If man were to know everything in advance, there would be no such thing as adventure!

Offline Mike Theis

  • Trad Bowhunter
  • **
  • Posts: 280
Re: Crossbows will be legal soon?
« Reply #12 on: February 08, 2013, 09:05:00 PM »
As far as my little bow club. The situation with the WBH has been festering for many years. We had a new representative for our area elected a few years ago. He lives less than 10 miles away, and has never contacted us. Last year, I asked another small club just south of us, has he contacted them? Same answer- No. There aren't that many clubs in the district to contact. But not to pick on him totally, as prior representatives have behaved in a similar fashion. So if they are to represent us, how come they never talk to us???? Especially, your 100 & 101% clubs?

Dropping back from a mandatory requirement as a 100% club was voted on as a group. Any connection to support of crossbows of any kind is just another nail, another nail of many.
If man were to know everything in advance, there would be no such thing as adventure!

Offline MAT

  • Trad Bowhunter
  • **
  • Posts: 160
Re: Crossbows will be legal soon?
« Reply #13 on: February 14, 2013, 01:27:00 PM »
If you guys haven't seen it yet I started a thread in the Hunting Legislation & Policies forum.  There are some very interesting responses (at least to me) for a "traditional" archery site.

Offline smoke1953

  • Trad Bowhunter
  • **
  • Posts: 1202
Re: Crossbows will be legal soon?
« Reply #14 on: February 28, 2013, 05:48:00 PM »
Mark I was surprised also. I guess we just need to concentrate on the best arguments that we can use to emphasise how important it is in Wisconsin to stick with the integrity of our archery season. We've seen the growth and increasing enthusiasm in our sport from our young people. That hasn't occurred due to crossbows. When I get to speak to them I want to emphasize what we are seeing at the clubs and events when it comes to youth in archery and that translates to new hunters that will stick with it because they find the joy in archery.

Offline smoke1953

  • Trad Bowhunter
  • **
  • Posts: 1202
Re: Crossbows will be legal soon?
« Reply #15 on: February 28, 2013, 06:45:00 PM »
Mark I was surprised also. I guess we just need to concentrate on the best arguments that we can use to emphasise how important it is in Wisconsin to stick with the integrity of our archery season. We've seen the growth and increasing enthusiasm in our sport from our young people. That hasn't occurred due to crossbows. When I get to speak to them I want to emphasize what we are seeing at the clubs and events when it comes to youth in archery and that translates to new hunters that will stick with it because they find the joy in archery.

Users currently browsing this topic:

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
 

Contact Us | Trad Gang.com © | User Agreement

Copyright 2003 thru 2019 ~ Trad Gang.com ©