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Author Topic: Pack Goats???  (Read 3175 times)

Offline String Cutter

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Pack Goats???
« on: May 20, 2004, 10:24:00 AM »
Anybody here ever use pack goats?? I was checking out a website that said that they were better than mules or horses for packing stuff into the mountain. And since I'm moving into a new house that has a large barn and 2 fenced in feilds in the back I was thinking of getting a pack animal for my hunts in W.Va.  Was also thinking about llamas but heard that they're nasty tempermental animals.
Fatherhood is the greatest adventure a man can ever take.

Offline OH at work

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Re: Pack Goats???
« Reply #1 on: May 20, 2004, 10:26:00 AM »
String, Stealthycat has some Llamas for sale in the classifieds.  I don't have experience with goats but Llamas are great to work with. Sounded like a good deal since you'd have the room.

Joe

Offline String Cutter

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Re: Pack Goats???
« Reply #2 on: May 20, 2004, 10:43:00 AM »
OH, It's going to be a couple of months before we get settled down at our new place. And I really want to see what would work best for me before I just up and buy an animal. So I'm unable to get any thing right now. Plus ,I've got some buttering up before I even ask her. But I'm sure she'll let me, if she knows that I really want it. But, I'm real interested in the goat idea. They were saying that you don't even need a trailor to take 'em. Just put them in the back of the truck. And you don't really need to pack any feed for them either. Just make sure that they have water.... I also was going to ask some of you guys and girls that use pack animals what the regulations are for pack animals in National Forrest???  I'll be hunting George Washington National Forrest mostly.
Fatherhood is the greatest adventure a man can ever take.

Offline BenBow

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Re: Pack Goats???
« Reply #3 on: May 20, 2004, 10:46:00 AM »
I wouldn't have anything to do with llamas cause I know of 2 people that have been killed by being kicked in the head by the damn things. That's not even considering the number of bites and times being spit on.
But his bow will remain steady, and his hands will be skillful; because of the hands of the Mighty One of Jacob, because of the Shepherd, the Rock of Israel,  (Genesis 49:24 [NETfree])

Offline bohuntr

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Re: Pack Goats???
« Reply #4 on: May 20, 2004, 10:59:00 AM »
String Cutter if you do a search on the Bowsites Elk Forum you will find some threads with info on pack goats. One of those posts even had a link to several websites entirely devoted to pack goats.
To me, the ultimate challenge in bowhunting is not how far away you can succesfully make a killing shot but rather how close you can get to the animal before shooting.

Offline bohuntr

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Re: Pack Goats???
« Reply #5 on: May 20, 2004, 11:01:00 AM »
String Cutter if you do a search on the Bowsites Elk Forum you will find some threads with info on pack goats. One of those posts even had a link to several websites entirely devoted to pack goats.
To me, the ultimate challenge in bowhunting is not how far away you can succesfully make a killing shot but rather how close you can get to the animal before shooting.

Offline bohuntr

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Re: Pack Goats???
« Reply #6 on: May 20, 2004, 11:03:00 AM »
Sorry about the double post don't know what happened. Never happened to me before. Hopefully this isn't a double post.
To me, the ultimate challenge in bowhunting is not how far away you can succesfully make a killing shot but rather how close you can get to the animal before shooting.

Offline lcoast

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Re: Pack Goats???
« Reply #7 on: May 20, 2004, 11:04:00 AM »
Llamas are usually pretty mild mannered. My neighbour raises them and I am always amazed at how a full grown Llama that has barely been touched by human hands will let him manipulate them.

But somewhere here we have an article regading pack goats. I will dig it out. If I remember correctly, a particular breed of goat is used. Pictures in the article show them packing abd the goats are not tied to each other or led by halter.

Will take a look and get bact ya.
=keith=

Busted chairs and broken dreams.

Offline lcoast

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Re: Pack Goats???
« Reply #8 on: May 20, 2004, 11:47:00 AM »
Looks like bohntr and I posted at the same time.
The article i have is in an Instinctive Archery magazine and is written by Ted Fry. They used the goats on an elk hunt. I can't find where it mentions the breed of goat just that they are a special breed.

Contact Ted and he could direct you to the guy he was with that owned the goats.
=keith=

Busted chairs and broken dreams.

Offline OH at work

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Re: Pack Goats???
« Reply #9 on: May 20, 2004, 11:49:00 AM »
seems to me I've seen that Bob from Hele Knives and a few others use goats.  Maybe they will chime in soon with some info for you.

Joe

Offline String Cutter

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Re: Pack Goats???
« Reply #10 on: May 20, 2004, 12:51:00 PM »
Yea, That's something else I forgot to ask. What couple of breeds would be best? From what I've been able to see so far, Boear(sp) is a good breed. I also would like it if somebody knows where I could find regulations on pack animals on National Forrest.
Fatherhood is the greatest adventure a man can ever take.

Offline Bpaul

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Re: Pack Goats???
« Reply #11 on: May 20, 2004, 12:55:00 PM »
I've posted at the Oregon boards for bowsite, there is a guy there who packs with goats and loves them.  When he responds I'll send information your way.

B
Except during the nine months before he draws his first breath, no man manages his affairs as well as a tree does.  
          -George Bernard Shaw

Offline bob@helleknife.com

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Re: Pack Goats???
« Reply #12 on: May 20, 2004, 02:13:00 PM »
I have been using packgoats for 6-7 years.  

Best attribute is they follow along without a lead and are "easy keepers".

There is some info on my website and lots more on the stickbow elk website as well.

Like all pack animasl the more time you spend with them the better resutls you will get.

Good luck!!

bob@helleknife.com
Beware of all enterprises that require a new suit.

Don't give up what you want most for what you want now.

Offline String Cutter

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Re: Pack Goats???
« Reply #13 on: May 20, 2004, 02:22:00 PM »
Bob, Looking at your site is what got me going. Shame on you...What breed do you think is the best for pack goats. And do you like the does or bucks for work?
Fatherhood is the greatest adventure a man can ever take.

Offline Steertalker

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Re: Pack Goats???
« Reply #14 on: May 20, 2004, 02:35:00 PM »
String Cutter,

I don't know much about "pack goats" in particular, but I do raise goats, boer goats to be specific.  Goats are very intelligent, agile, easy to feed and care for and are probably pound for pound the strongest of all the domesticed animals.  Boers goats are meat goats and so have the capacity to have lots of muscling.  Like one of the posts before me, lots of handling and attention should produce a pretty reliable pack goat.

Traveling is easy with them.  For just 2 or 3 you can use a goat tote which is basically a big cage which fits in the back of our truck.

If you have any questions feel free to contact me.
"America is like a healthy body and its resistance is threefold:  its patriotism, its morality and its spiritual like.  If we can undermine these three areas, America will collapse from within."  Joseph Stalin

Offline String Cutter

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Re: Pack Goats???
« Reply #15 on: May 20, 2004, 02:41:00 PM »
Steertalker, Boers goats are the ones I was reading about. Do you know about what price range they go for? And if there are any sellers in VA.  ?
Fatherhood is the greatest adventure a man can ever take.

Offline Stealthycat

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Re: Pack Goats???
« Reply #16 on: May 20, 2004, 02:53:00 PM »
I haven't used goats but I suspect a llama will pack at least twice the weight ? 2 llamas will fit in my GMC 1500 with a rack. Very well behaved animals, after using them for 4 years now I have never been spit on and very rarely see a foot kick my way and have never been threatened by them.

Llamas areg great animals folks and I suspect goats are too if only they could carry similar weight

Offline lcoast

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Re: Pack Goats???
« Reply #17 on: May 20, 2004, 03:53:00 PM »
According to the article by Ted Fry, the goats will carry 40 pounds and more if used regularly. I believe I read that a Llama carries 70 lbs?

Interesting stuff. I have packed dogs and horses and a mule once. I liked the dogs better than the horses.

Goats sound interesting. Can always sell young ones for meat. Llamas are good eating but seems like most people won't try them where as a lot of people will eat goats.
=keith=

Busted chairs and broken dreams.

Offline Steertalker

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Re: Pack Goats???
« Reply #18 on: May 20, 2004, 03:54:00 PM »
String Cutter,

First of all I agree with Stealthycat, llamas are very strong and also very agile and smart like a goat.  What ever negative stuff you've heard about them is probably coming from people that don't know the first thing about them.  Down here in Texas we have llamas everywhere and, guess what, we use them to protect our goats.  The will kill a coyote or a bobcat in a heartbeat and I've been told they can hold there ground with a mountain lion.  That's why we use them.  Boer goats are big business down here and most people can't afford to lose them to a predator.

Now, with all that said, if you are still interested in a goat go to  www.abga.org  and check for boer goat breeders in your area.  There should be plenty in Virginia.  Costs depend on the goat.  They are not as cheap as you might think but since you are looking for a pack animal and not a show or breeding animal you should be able to buy 3-4 pretty reasonably.  I would recommend wethers (castrated billies).  When fully mature they will weigh in at around 250-350 lbs and will be as strong as an ox.  If you are planning to train them yourself them get them when they're young (just after weaning, 3-4 mos) and start working with them.  Just like any animal, including llamas, you will need to be patient and be dedicated to handling them alot.  Most goats, except for the occasional bone head, love to be scratched and loved on.  And if you ever abuse one they will never forget it!  Down here a plan old  boer or boer cross "wether" will cost you about $75-$125.  I would imagine if you buy one already trained for packing it may cost quite a bit more.  Maybe $500 plus.  Down here quality breeding and show goats are anywhere from $250 to $5000, that's right...$5000, depending on their pedigree and genetics.

Sorry to be so long winded, but if I can be of anymore assistance, don't hesitate to ask.  By the way, ABGA stands for the American Boer Goat Association.

Brett
"America is like a healthy body and its resistance is threefold:  its patriotism, its morality and its spiritual like.  If we can undermine these three areas, America will collapse from within."  Joseph Stalin

Offline bob@helleknife.com

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Re: Pack Goats???
« Reply #19 on: May 20, 2004, 05:57:00 PM »
Sc,
Boer goats are know for their meat but most of them are way too short to make good packers.  
They are just not tall enough to clear deadfalls and such.  Some folks are cross breeding them with taller goats because they do have good atributes.

Most good packers are crosses (for hybrid vigor) of Alpines, Sannans and Obers.  A good packer will weight around 225 lbs and more.  Like all things I would rather have a smaller critter with lots of heart than a big barn slug.  

IF they are in shape they can carry a max of 30% of their body weight...but that is a pretty big load.  So much depends on where you are hunting, how steep the terrain, are there cleared trails, etc. that really dictates the load.

If I am hunting steep and rough country with no trails and it is an all day hunt I cut the weight back to around 30 lbs or less if I can get away with it.  Remember they have to be able to jump over downed timber, etc.  They are a lot shorter so sometimes they are working pretty hard.

They become good friends and you can really get attached to them.

Bob
Beware of all enterprises that require a new suit.

Don't give up what you want most for what you want now.

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