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Author Topic: Want a SOLID bow arm????  (Read 1124 times)

Online Terry Green

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Re: Want a SOLID bow arm????
« Reply #20 on: August 06, 2004, 10:39:00 AM »
Don't wanna get lost in translation.....

Alignment:...getting as close to a straight line with your bow arm in front, and elbow in back....SO THAT....all energy is directed toward and away from the target....SO THAT, the  closer  you are to that straight energy deployment, the  farther  away you are from torquing the bow....SO THAT....your bow arm will stay put and your release will be clean....SO THAT, you will be more accurate more consistantly.

Core Form:...Basically, *your* shot.  The one you shoot the most.  The one you practice on the bale, in your back yard, or at the range.  The natural shot you would like to always have in the woods.  The more consistant this 'core form' is, the more accurate you will be at deviations from *your* shot.

This 'core form' will 'carry' your shot in various hunting positions, and even those positions that may 'lure' your form astray a bit.
tarz@tradgang.com

"It's important,  when going after a goal, to never lose sight of the integrity of the journey" - Andy Garcia

' An anchor point is not a destination, its  an evolution to execution' - Me



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Offline Dave Bulla

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Re: Want a SOLID bow arm????
« Reply #21 on: August 06, 2004, 12:58:00 PM »
Terry, that last post of yours says what I was trying to say far better than I could have said it.

Your deffinition of alignment is what I meant about shooting from awkward positions like with feet wrong and or pointing at up or down angles.  You still want to be in "alignment" even if your stance is distorted due to an awkward position.

I figure ability to do this (well) comes after learning what you called "core form" and getting it ingrained and natural.
Dave


I've come to believe that the keys to shooting well for me are good form, trusting the bow to do all the work, and having the confidence in the bow and myself to remain motionless and relaxed at release until the arrow hits the mark.

Offline Bpaul

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Re: Want a SOLID bow arm????
« Reply #22 on: August 06, 2004, 04:18:00 PM »
Ok, gave it a shot today (no pun... oh hell sure pun intended   :D  ) and had some real nice results.

First off, I'm a beginning archer and anything that gets me to concentrate (not think about... but concentrate) on my form helps.  So this fits the bill.

Second -- well, simply put I shot some DAM fine bullseyes.  I would generally have a flier or two, but the hits that were good were REAL GOOD.  I almost split my nocks a few times.  

I did hold at anchor way longer than normal for me, so my form dropped off very quickly due to fatigue.  I couldn't do this for long.  BUT, I like the results and am going to incorporate it into my shooting routine.  I want to thank you for the suggestion.

I guess if I get more revelations about the mechanics or feel of it I'll post again.

Thanks,

B
Except during the nine months before he draws his first breath, no man manages his affairs as well as a tree does.  
          -George Bernard Shaw

Online Terry Green

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Re: Want a SOLID bow arm????
« Reply #23 on: August 06, 2004, 04:35:00 PM »
Originally posted by Dave Bulla:

"Terry, some of your comments and those of others are part of what got me to paying attention to this. After seeing your shooting video later, I was more or less in awe. I don't know how much of your form came naturally and how much you have done deliberately but it sure was pretty to see."

First off, thanks for the compliment, and I haven't ignored this post. I've got some notes I'm working on to try and explain it. Simple yet complex....and I need to make sure I convey the answer the best I can.

"A lot of my problem is old bad habbits and not sticking with my own advice long enough and strictly enough to make it natural and effortless."

Decide what you want to work on, and go to the bale....ONE problem at a time. You can do it.

"I also realize most guys don't worry about their legs but rather more a waist up alignment and that is fine. The whole point of my mentioning paying attention to leg position is to let someone new to the concept of alignment see and feel the difference stance can make in the shot. To find that sweet spot repeatedly. Once that upper body alignment is burned in and natural, I agree, a good shooter can forget about their legs in most cases. They might have the wrong foot forward and be twisted at the waist while shooting upwards into a treetop and keep good alignment."

I agree....that's the reason for the 'core form' comment.

"It's like instinctive shooting to me. More of a goal than a method. In fact, I kinda feel that getting the upper body in alignment without thinking and shooting instinctively are strongly connected. You can't do just half of it well."

Yep.

"Then there are different degrees of alignment. Where a beginner might work from his feet up, an experienced shooter might aim from the hips or waist. A highly gifted shooter might be able to shoot well with just arms, shoulders and head aligned because he has developed a "feel" for the shot."

Yep.

"My goal is to be able to get the best form possible out of the position I'm stuck in wether it's kneeling in a deadfall, crouched behind a bush, leaning out of a tree stand or standing flatfooted shooting at a clueless deer under perfect conditions."

Ah!....spoken like a true bowhunter!!!!
tarz@tradgang.com

"It's important,  when going after a goal, to never lose sight of the integrity of the journey" - Andy Garcia

' An anchor point is not a destination, its  an evolution to execution' - Me



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Offline Glasspoint

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Re: Want a SOLID bow arm????
« Reply #24 on: August 07, 2004, 12:01:00 PM »
Thanks for bringing this back up, I missed it the first time around  :notworthy:  .
The early bird may get the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese...

Online TSP

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Re: Want a SOLID bow arm????
« Reply #25 on: August 08, 2004, 11:38:00 AM »
Thats a great observation, Dave.  Your idea hits on a point that many people (me too) tend to forget when working on form corrections ...alignment can affect results, and it doesn't just mean how you set your feet (stuff like arm/shoulder position, bow hand, bow limbs/string, finger angle on string, anchor place and angle, push-pull, etc., does matter). Getting all your "parts" set in a well-positioned angle to the target makes it easier to be repeatable and so its easier to shoot straight.  In the early stages of inventing your own form, thinking about things like alignment is more important than when form has largely been built (i.e., when you have become comfortable with your basic style).  When the basic style has been found, maintenance and fine-tuning are the goal and the issue of concentration becomes much more of a focus than body position aspects.  Form practice will transform to mostly developing/tweaking concentration methods rather than for figuring out how to hold your body parts.  "Working the bale" up close and with eyes closed helps groove the physical aspects of form for new shooters...and for experienced shooters who may be experiencing a slump or having trouble with some aspect of physical form.  But, for those who have been shooting awhile and already have figured out/dialed in their basic form, the most difficult (elusive) point of practice will be the concentration part.  And for that (somewhat paradoxically) its best to consciously forget about things like alignment, eyes-closed practice, release, and all the other physical components of shooting the bow.  The focus becomes an effort to practice the sight picture...what you see, and what subconciously needs to happen to make the arrow hit 'right there'.  Interestingly, I think its at that point, where concentration supercedes body part orientation as the prime directive, that many of the finer points of physical form become much easier to assess and correct.  Hard to explain, but experienced shooters probably know what I mean.

Dave, you get an "A" in my book for noticing a good point about how body alignment can make a big difference, and an "A+" for having the forethought to actually consider how it matters in the scheme of things.  Instinctive shooting may be simple in concept, but in application its better to be a thinker than to just "pull'er back and let'er rip".

Offline JRH

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Re: Want a SOLID bow arm????
« Reply #26 on: August 08, 2004, 03:22:00 PM »
Thanks Dave, and all you folks...
Great thread!!!
Every book I have read, and every consistantly accurate archer I have met stresses form, form and then practice some form.  Hill insisted that his students practice nothing but form for at least two weeks on blank bales, at no more than 10 paces, before going to targets.

Keep writing, I am reading!  ;)
A dowg that's in the hunt don't know he's got flea's....
JRH
Goose Creek SC.
Jeremiah. 29:11

Online George Tsoukalas

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Re: Want a SOLID bow arm????
« Reply #27 on: August 08, 2004, 09:42:00 PM »
If I don't hit my anchor and release smoothly my bow arm will move. That usually happens when i am tired as in the last 5 targets of a shoot.
Jawge

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