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Author Topic: Starting a Footed Riser....  (Read 1781 times)

Offline RayMO

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Re: Starting a Footed Riser....
« Reply #40 on: June 28, 2005, 10:45:00 AM »
The bow is basically Bingham except the riser pattern is mine I didn't like the Bingham pattern.

I have some 1/16 black walnut and birds eye strips that I am thinking about using for an overlay on the front of the riser. Once again, I have never done this before either. Not sure how to fasten them down at this point, don't know if I can get clamps to work?? Any advise?

Mo.

Offline sidebuster

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Re: Starting a Footed Riser....
« Reply #41 on: June 28, 2005, 11:25:00 AM »
Ray if you lay your riser pattern on a chunk of inexpensive wood with the same thickness as your riser mark the top of riser on the pattern and cut this out,  Make sure you have enough wood to the top of the cut so it remains solid.  Use this piece to fit over your riser and riser  overlay it will contour to the top of the riser and also put some more scrap wood on the other side of the riser belly side  and use some C clamps large ones to clamp onto. Be sure you paste wax  the heck out of the top scrap piece that will be conturing to your riser so the smooth on does not stick to that piece and comes off easy when you unclamp it.  On the tips use small c clamps and scrap wood to clamp to.  I use 2 c clamps on the tips.  If you got a spring clamp it helps to temporaraly hold the scrap wood and tip overlay in place until you can get on small c clamp on.

Offline RayMO

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Re: Starting a Footed Riser....
« Reply #42 on: June 28, 2005, 01:23:00 PM »
Thanks Sidebuster,

If I understand what you are saying I basically need to make a block that conforms to the belly of the riser so I can get clamps on??

I have always used smooth on before and had good luck with it, but I was thinking for these thin overlays on the riser that titebond may work just find...what do you think?? If I use titebond I maybe able to get away with some kind of a wrap to hold it on tight instead of clamps...I don't know..

Offline sidebuster

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Re: Starting a Footed Riser....
« Reply #43 on: June 28, 2005, 01:36:00 PM »
Ray the the block needs to conform to the back of the bow not the belly.  You are putting the overlay in the front of the riser or as it is referred to  as the back of the bow.   I would not use tite bond.  Use smooth on.  Put a edge center mark of your overlay with some white paint something you can see on the edge. You want to guide the overlay to the center of the riser.  As you clamp it the overlay will move becasue of the smooth on You just need to fittle with it clamping a little here and little there until it is center on the back of the riser vertical and horizontanl then complete clamping it.  Also make sure your overlay is long enough.   You can always sand it shorter.

Offline RayMO

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Re: Starting a Footed Riser....
« Reply #44 on: June 28, 2005, 02:17:00 PM »
Thanks sidebuster...I get it now. OK I will stick with the smooth on. It is difficult to clamp somthing down and keep it in place with that stuff. As you said it wants to slide all over the place. I was going to do the black walnut first then the maple on top of it. So it will take two glue up operations. The wood I have is 1/16 inch and I think that is a little to thick, I guess I can alwas reduce it by hand after it is glued on. Maybe I should reduce it a little first. What do you think?

Maybe I will give it a try to night..thanks

Offline Jeff Strubberg

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Re: Starting a Footed Riser....
« Reply #45 on: June 28, 2005, 02:22:00 PM »
Ray,


Since the overlays aren't under any stress, two part epoxy should work just fine.  Overlays are easier if they are thin enough to conform to the riser.
"Teach him horsemanship and archery, and teach him to despise all lies"          -Herodotus

Offline sidebuster

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Re: Starting a Footed Riser....
« Reply #46 on: June 28, 2005, 02:26:00 PM »
Ray the thinner it is the better to bend it.  If you have enough of the overlay material you could glue  the maple on the walnut first then see if you can bend it after it dries so you only have to do one glueing on the riser.  Only experiment with this if you have enough to make a another sample if this one breaks.  You might be able to do just one glueing if it bends and it will bend if it is thin enough to bend.

Offline RayMO

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Re: Starting a Footed Riser....
« Reply #47 on: June 28, 2005, 02:39:00 PM »
I never thought about glueing then together first. That sounds like a good idea, but I think they will be too stiff for that. So I may try and reduce then on the belt sander some first. It seems the thinner the better.

Thanks again. I will let you know how it turns out.

Offline RayMO

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Re: Starting a Footed Riser....
« Reply #48 on: June 28, 2005, 07:43:00 PM »
Well I glued the first layer of the riser overlay on tonight. When you cut out the riser save the scrap it is a perfect match to the fron of the riser and is great for a pressure plate for glueing on riser overlays. It least I hope so   :D  Find out for sure tomorrow.

Here is a pic of the overlay being glued up.

 

Online Crooked Stic

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Re: Starting a Footed Riser....
« Reply #49 on: June 29, 2005, 05:46:00 AM »
Glueing overlays to curved surfaces can be tricky. You idea should work fine if you get even pressure on the glued piece. I like to glue mine on when everything is still square (before shaping)to have a flat suface and drum sand the fades paper thin.
High on Archery.

Offline RayMO

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Re: Starting a Footed Riser....
« Reply #50 on: June 29, 2005, 07:33:00 AM »
OK....boy am I STUPID!!!!  :knothead:  

Yeah it is a bad deal...not sure I can even salvage the riser...

The overlay went on just fine, but I put a lamp on it to help cure the smooth on and left it on all night...how stupid is that..yes I have some de-lamination in the riser right where I had the lamp. Man I hate this...I even thought about it last night and I decided it would be OK. I have been beating myself up all morning.

So what are my options????????

1. I think this is my best option. The de-   lamentation does not appear to be to deep (I doubt if it is a 1/4"), but it does run up thru the shelf, I am  thinking that I may be able to use some gap filling CA. I really don't think smooth on is an option in this situation.

2. I thought about baking the whole riser to get it to totally de-lamentation and then re-glue. I really don't like this, don't even know if it is possible.

3. Build another riser.

The de-lamentation is only on one of the joints.

Any suggestions...??

Feeling really STUPID and down this morning...

Mo.

Offline sidebuster

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Re: Starting a Footed Riser....
« Reply #51 on: June 29, 2005, 08:18:00 AM »
Ray will the riser come together with c clamps at the de lamination point?  If it does take a razor blade and stuff smooth on into the open area.  Put plenty from both sides if the delamination went completly thru. Then clamp it tight and let is sit for 24 hours no heat. Should work.  This does not only make you a beginner bowyer on TD but it teaches  you how to repair things.  You will find many threads on how one bow is twisted here and there, needs refinishing, or something crack.  You got to learn how to fix things cause most of us aren't rich to buy or start over again.  If it works fine you tried if not then you can decided to start fresh on the riser by making a new one or delaminate the damaged one completly.  You then would light sand the epoxy off and reglue it.

Offline RayMO

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Re: Starting a Footed Riser....
« Reply #52 on: June 29, 2005, 08:35:00 AM »
Thanks sidebuster..

I don't know if I can draw the riser together or not for sure. Did not have too much time to look at it this morning. But I doubt if I can get enought smooth on in there to really help.

One thing is for sure...I am learning, don't care for the cost of the education too much..  :D  

You did not say anything about using CA?

Ray

Offline RayMO

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Re: Starting a Footed Riser....
« Reply #53 on: June 29, 2005, 08:37:00 AM »
Oh yea....the delamination  does not go all the way thru. I estimate it is only 1/8 to 1/4 deep.

Offline sidebuster

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Re: Starting a Footed Riser....
« Reply #54 on: June 29, 2005, 08:46:00 AM »
Ray you be surprised how much smooth on you can force in the open area.  Got to use a small tool even a large needle.  It is important that you are able to clamp it but just clamp it like you were glueing the whole riser for the first time cause sometines if you put pressure just on the open area another area might open.  I know CA is good but its not an epoxy.  Smooth On turns like a rock when fully dry.  It up to you.

Offline RayMO

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Re: Starting a Footed Riser....
« Reply #55 on: June 29, 2005, 08:56:00 AM »
Hmmm...I will see what I can do with the clamps tonight. If I can not draw the gap closed then smooth on is not the answer. As you said the danger is new delamination. If I can draw the gap closed then I will go with the smooth on as you suggested.

I would think that if I placed the riser in the oven it would delaminate totally. Have you ever done this? I could then reglue.

Thanks again.

Offline SteveD

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Re: Starting a Footed Riser....
« Reply #56 on: June 29, 2005, 08:58:00 AM »
Wow Fantasic Thanks for the build along

Offline sidebuster

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Re: Starting a Footed Riser....
« Reply #57 on: June 29, 2005, 09:12:00 AM »
I never have put a riser in the oven to delaminate.  It will probably work but do not know what effect the over heating has on the properties of the wood even if you get to glue up the riser again.   Will the wood lose some of its strength?  I have not made a footed riser but made the riser with a large curve which basicly what you did but you put two curves in yours.  I glue mine up and leave it on my workbench for 24 hours no heat.  I have fixed a delaminated limb by inserting smooth on with a razor blade and the clamping it no heat just let it sit for 24 hrs. Has never come apart todate. You got to experiment that what a lot of this bow building is about.

Offline RayMO

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Re: Starting a Footed Riser....
« Reply #58 on: June 29, 2005, 06:48:00 PM »
sidebuster...when I got home from work tonight the delamination was not visible at all. I guess when the stress was removed and the riser cooled down it came back together. I put the second overlay on with less pressure on the clamps and no heat.

Ray

Offline Jeff Strubberg

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Re: Starting a Footed Riser....
« Reply #59 on: June 30, 2005, 12:48:00 AM »
Ray,

Check the other thread, I think I know what happened to your riser.
"Teach him horsemanship and archery, and teach him to despise all lies"          -Herodotus

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