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Author Topic: Arrow penetration.... the real secret.  (Read 3809 times)

Online Charlie Lamb

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Arrow penetration.... the real secret.
« on: June 10, 2009, 10:08:00 PM »
Recent discussions about bow weight and broadhead design made me smile and chuckle under my breath.

Wish I had a nickel for every time I've seen those discussions come up over the years.... I can always predict the outcome as well.

No consensus and no revelations.

In most of the broadhead design discussions the German made SilverFlame broadheads pop up as an option.
I find that interesting in that it's usually thrown right in with the 3 to1 ratio stuff as a top penetrator when it's design has not proven to be that efficient.

And I'm not knocking the SilverFlame either. I just think it's curious that it's super sharpness seems to put it in the same class as a 3 to 1 for penetration.

Now having said all that, let me throw a couple things out there that I've learned over the years.

Sharp is where it's at. It's what does the killing. It's what promotes penetration. It's what puts blood on the ground.

Getting your broadheads ultra sharp (regardless of design) is like adding pounds of draw to your bow. It was a pretty common saying "back in the day".

Since I see a lot of questions pop up every year about how to sharpen this broadhead and how to sharpen that one. Well, I've sure got an answer for anyone who thinks there broadhead sharpness is suspect or doubts their sharpening skills.
Hunt Sharp

Charlie

Offline vermonster13

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Re: Arrow penetration.... the real secret.
« Reply #1 on: June 10, 2009, 10:12:00 PM »
:thumbsup:     :notworthy:
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Online Over&Under

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Re: Arrow penetration.... the real secret.
« Reply #2 on: June 10, 2009, 10:12:00 PM »
Interesting thoughts indeed.

There really is not substitute for a good sharp broadhead.
“Elk (add hogs to the list) are not hard to hit....they're just easy to miss"          :)
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Offline Bowhunter4life

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Re: Arrow penetration.... the real secret.
« Reply #3 on: June 10, 2009, 10:15:00 PM »
Amen Charlie!  Properly tuned arrow gets right there with sharpness of the broadhead when you are looking at overall penetration also...
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Offline WidowEater

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Re: Arrow penetration.... the real secret.
« Reply #4 on: June 10, 2009, 10:15:00 PM »
I like the ones that chime in once in a while about how they get their braodheads so sharp that it produces a wound channel that doesnt bleed.  Sounds like a troll.

To piggyback here you always get the crowd that is all about shot placement too.

Id rather have the sharp broadhead as my means of decreasing my margin of error.
Silence over speed.  Heavier arrows never hurt.

Online Charlie Lamb

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Re: Arrow penetration.... the real secret.
« Reply #5 on: June 10, 2009, 10:17:00 PM »
Long ago (30 odd years) I purchased a jig that a friend suggested to me. It didn't take long to realize the value of that jig for both knives and broadheads.

Not only did the jig allow me to get my edges razor keen, but it did so with a minimum of metal removal and a complete consistency to the finished edge.
I also found that that consistency made for a very tough edge which was also easily touched up in the field.

Well that old jig finally gave up the ghost a couple of years ago and I've sure missed it... that is until the other day when I got my new KME sharpening system.
 

WOW!!!     :thumbsup:    :thumbsup:    :eek:

I've been working over every broadhead of every style I have and haven't found one I couldn't get a fine razor edge on in a jiffy.
Hunt Sharp

Charlie

Online Charlie Lamb

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Re: Arrow penetration.... the real secret.
« Reply #6 on: June 10, 2009, 10:20:00 PM »


These plastic cases are perfect for keeping your sharpening stuff together and make road trips painless as well.
Hunt Sharp

Charlie

Offline fatman

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Re: Arrow penetration.... the real secret.
« Reply #7 on: June 10, 2009, 10:23:00 PM »
:thumbsup:
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Commitment is like bacon & eggs; the chicken is involved, but the pig is committed....

Offline 30coupe

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Re: Arrow penetration.... the real secret.
« Reply #8 on: June 10, 2009, 10:36:00 PM »
Have you tried it on three blade broadheads like the WW, Charlie?
Bodnik Kiowa 52" 45# @ 28"
Kanati 58" 46# @ 28" R.I.P (2007-2015)
Self-made Silk backed Hickory Board bow 67" 49# @ 28"
Bear Black Bear 60" 45# @28"
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Online Charlie Lamb

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Re: Arrow penetration.... the real secret.
« Reply #9 on: June 10, 2009, 10:37:00 PM »

My first attempt was with my old reliable Magnus I. It sharpened up to freaky sharp too fast to satisfy my curiosity.

Even the triple thickness at the tip was a piece of cake... it usually requires a little extra work to sharpen fully.  Magnus' great grind and the KME made it child's play.
     

A few passes with the coarse side of the diamond stone brought me to the edge and angle I like and a quick turn of the stone to the fine side and the wide blade was popping hairs like a barber's razor.

Since I use the Magnus I as a four blade I had to work over the bleeder blade as well.
     

The thin steel of replaceable bleeders always creates a problem for most bowhunters. Not with this system.
I went straight to work with the fine hone and in just a couple strokes had improved the factory grind DRAMATICALLY.
Hunt Sharp

Charlie

Online Charlie Lamb

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Re: Arrow penetration.... the real secret.
« Reply #10 on: June 10, 2009, 10:40:00 PM »
Russ... KME's sharpeners are designed for the basic single blade or single blade with removeable bleeder.

Ron can fix you up with very nice stones for your three blade needs. All the stones with the knife sharpener and broadhead sharpener are first class and should last a very long time.
Hunt Sharp

Charlie

Offline David Sapp

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Re: Arrow penetration.... the real secret.
« Reply #11 on: June 10, 2009, 10:45:00 PM »
Do you like the std stone kit or the diamond stone better? It looks as if you have one of each.
Hunting with the bow and arrow involves earning your way by making meat, getting your hands messy in the process and then recognizing your own reflection upon them.
"The Squirrel Chronicles"
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Online Charlie Lamb

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Re: Arrow penetration.... the real secret.
« Reply #12 on: June 10, 2009, 10:48:00 PM »
My second experience was with a brand new Zwickey Eskimo. A fine broadhead (no doubt) the Zwickeys don't have the same refined grind from the factory.

The KME made short work of it anyway. On the first edge I used the broadhead sharpener and brought it to a fine polished edge in no time.
For the second edge I chose to try the Knife sharpening kit.  
   

   

You couldn't tell the difference in the two edges and the knife sharpener worked just as fast and easy.
Hunt Sharp

Charlie

Online Charlie Lamb

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Re: Arrow penetration.... the real secret.
« Reply #13 on: June 10, 2009, 10:51:00 PM »
David... I really like the Diamond stone for fast stock removal (coarse side) and the fine side does an excellent job of refining the edge.

Having said that I found the regular stones did just as well although a might slower in the initial stock removal. Minor difference.

You also have the advantage of going with much smoother stones if you chose the regular stones. The fine diamond is only so fine.
Hunt Sharp

Charlie

Offline David Sapp

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Re: Arrow penetration.... the real secret.
« Reply #14 on: June 10, 2009, 10:59:00 PM »
Thanks Charlie, I appreciate your opinion as you're surely one of the sharpening gurus on here.  So if you were to choose one (bang for the buck so to speak) the knife sharpener with the std stone is what you'd recommend for both knives and broadheads? I'd like a system that I could sharpen both on well, if that's possible.
Hunting with the bow and arrow involves earning your way by making meat, getting your hands messy in the process and then recognizing your own reflection upon them.
"The Squirrel Chronicles"
Dean Torges

TGMM Family of the Bow

Offline R.W.

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Re: Arrow penetration.... the real secret.
« Reply #15 on: June 10, 2009, 11:10:00 PM »
I like the idea of the KME clamp for holding the broadhead.

Having used a Lansky knife sharpener to do the same thing, the KME clamp would make the process even more efficient.

Also tried to use a plane iron sharpener to do broadheads. This wasn't a successful trial, though.

Who was your original kit made by, Charlie? Just out of curiosity.

Online Charlie Lamb

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Re: Arrow penetration.... the real secret.
« Reply #16 on: June 10, 2009, 11:12:00 PM »
Eventually this post will find it's way to the product review forum, but I was so impressed by this system that I wanted to share it on Pow Wow.

The broadhead system is far and away better than my old jig. First off it has a roller on the bottom that prevents wear of the jig... my old jig was eventually ground away.

The second unique feature is the revolving head. You simple make a pass on one side and spin the head around to do the other side.

The jaws of the jig are unique as well. A simple push of a button and the jaws are released from the main body.
 A nut and bolt tightens the jaws securely to the broadhead and the shape of the jaws easily aligns with the ferrule of the head.... the Magnus Stinger I sharpened was the exception to that and it was only a minor issue. I improved the edge of that "fresh out of the pack" dynamo immensely.

There is a separate set of jaws for doing straight edges like removable bleeder blades.
They are very easy to switch out with the broadhead jaws.

As a side note.... in my fervor to sharpen every conceivable edge I could lay my hands on, I did the heavy blades of my utility knife in the shop and even went as far as sharpening a single edge razor in an old box cutter I had laying around.
(that's right, I'm that anal!)
  :D  
Fast, even and oh so sharp!!! I'd have needed a much finer stone than I had available to make the razor like new, but I was impressed none the less.
Hunt Sharp

Charlie

Online Charlie Lamb

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Re: Arrow penetration.... the real secret.
« Reply #17 on: June 10, 2009, 11:17:00 PM »
R.W. .... the old jig was called a "Razor Edge". I think that company is still around. I was considering getting another one and then I saw Ron's system and liked it better.
Hunt Sharp

Charlie

Online Charlie Lamb

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Re: Arrow penetration.... the real secret.
« Reply #18 on: June 10, 2009, 11:20:00 PM »
I'll probably add more tomorrow. I didn't mention what KME will do for a knife edge.
 :scared:
Hunt Sharp

Charlie

Offline Shaun

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Re: Arrow penetration.... the real secret.
« Reply #19 on: June 10, 2009, 11:28:00 PM »
Good stuff Charlie! I like the look of those KME sharpeners too. Thanks for the review.

On the penetration thoughts... I would also place a sharp broad head first. Good arrow flight second. Everything else distant third, fourth, etc.

I like Dr A's work and truly believe that for heavy boned dangerous game, you need a very heavy arrow added to the list - but still only after sharp point and clean flight.

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