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Main Boards => The Shooters FORM Board => Topic started by: Jock Whisky on May 13, 2019, 11:45:28 PM

Title: What a difference!
Post by: Jock Whisky on May 13, 2019, 11:45:28 PM
It’s amazing what one small movement can do to your shooting. I started 1962 and there were no coaches within a hundred miles so it was trial and error learning, mostly error. I did “ok” and made improvements over the years by talking to people, reading and getting advice on sites like this one.

A few weeks ago I was re-reading Shooting the Stickbow by Anthony Camera (Viper). On page 246 he talks about pushing the bow toward the target. I had tried this by literally pushing my arm toward the target but with little effect or success. Then I read his description which involves moving the upper bow arm and/or shoulder forward with respect to the archer’s body.  This actually causes a slight push toward the target.

By moving the upper bow arm forward I found my bow arm and both shoulders were in line which gave me better stability at full draw. I have much better alignment, back tension comes naturally, almost automatically and is much more consistent, my string hand comes straight back on release and I have never shot better. All because of the small forward movement of the upper bow arm. This worked like magic for me. If you are looking a step in improving your shooting this is worth checking out.
Title: Re: What a difference!
Post by: McDave on May 14, 2019, 12:47:32 AM
I agree. It took me a while to figure this out too. Let's say you face the target with a slightly open stance and come to full draw without moving your shoulders. At this point, your shoulders will be aligned slightly to the left of the target (for a RH shooter).  If you then rotate your shoulders so they are pointed toward the target, you will get better bone on bone alignment, your draw length will increase by a half inch to an inch, and your accuracy will probably increase because you are in a more stable position. It does feel like pushing with the bow arm to me. Of course, we normally rotate our shoulders into alignment as we draw, not as a separate step, but it helps to explain it in two steps. 
Title: Re: What a difference!
Post by: Bigjackfish on May 15, 2019, 04:12:43 AM
Is this what expansion is when you get to draw or something different.
Title: Re: What a difference!
Post by: McDave on May 15, 2019, 05:32:42 PM
Is this what expansion is when you get to draw or something different.

I believe this is correct.  At almost full draw, the string arm can’t draw the arrow back any further if the back muscles have been used correctly.  As the shoulders rotate into alignment, they push the bow arm forward to get the last little bit of draw that triggers the release or the clicker.
Title: Re: What a difference!
Post by: Jock Whisky on May 15, 2019, 11:56:34 PM
I agree with McDave. It's almost like you are levering that last bit of draw when you move the bow shoulder forward. Another way I would describe it is that your shoulders seem to pivot around the spine., the bow shoulder comes forward and the string shoulder moves back, bringing the draw arm back with it. When I do a "dry run" of the movement without a bow I can really feel the rhomboids working. A game changer for me.
Title: Re: What a difference!
Post by: fnshtr on May 16, 2019, 02:34:21 PM
Good stuff guys! :clapper:
Title: Re: What a difference!
Post by: acedoc on May 19, 2019, 08:51:12 PM
It’s amazing what one small movement can do to your shooting. I started 1962 and there were no coaches within a hundred miles so it was trial and error learning, mostly error. I did “ok” and made improvements over the years by talking to people, reading and getting advice on sites like this one.

A few weeks ago I was re-reading Shooting the Stickbow by Anthony Camera (Viper). On page 246 he talks about pushing the bow toward the target. I had tried this by literally pushing my arm toward the target but with little effect or success. Then I read his description which involves moving the upper bow arm and/or shoulder forward with respect to the archer’s body.  This actually causes a slight push toward the target.

By moving the upper bow arm forward I found my bow arm and both shoulders were in line which gave me better stability at full draw. I have much better alignment, back tension comes naturally, almost automatically and is much more consistent, my string hand comes straight back on release and I have never shot better. All because of the small forward movement of the upper bow arm. This worked like magic for me. If you are looking a step in improving your shooting this is worth checking out.
Thanks a ton. Just read a few parts of his book late last night and realised I was having a floating anchor in addition to my other sins.
Nice read
Title: Re: What a difference!
Post by: slowbowjoe on August 07, 2019, 10:26:36 PM
 


"I believe this is correct.  At almost full draw, the string arm can’t draw the arrow back any further if the back muscles have been used correctly.  As the shoulders rotate into alignment, they push the bow arm forward to get the last little bit of draw that triggers the release or the clicker."
X2.
Title: Re: What a difference!
Post by: UrsusNil on October 31, 2019, 08:57:43 AM
Also seems that I can get that shoulder alignment by taking a deep breath as I'm making the draw. Taking a deep breath from the chest, in the same cadence as the draw seems to get that back tension and push my shoulders into place. For me, it's easier to focus on a deep breath than moving muscles and bone!
Title: Re: What a difference!
Post by: Captain*Kirk on October 31, 2019, 12:45:39 PM
Everything in Tony's book is golden. He has taken the time to personally respond to me many times and I can't recommend his book enough!
Title: Re: What a difference!
Post by: jackdaw on January 29, 2020, 04:31:35 AM
So is it a draw THEN rotate sequence.? Someone should post a quick video of the moving into alignment at full draw.
Title: Re: What a difference!
Post by: fnshtr on January 29, 2020, 08:40:42 AM
I highly recommend Jake Kaminski’s YouTube instructional videos. You’ve got to adapt a bit for barebow, but it’s very good instruction.
Title: Re: What a difference!
Post by: Huntschool on January 30, 2020, 12:03:56 AM
I feel like it is a "push" into the target.  When I shot indoor with the blue targets I would set up my feet and then draw from an elevated bow hand.  As I reached full draw I could feel the muscle structure in my back change and then I would some what consciously push the bow hand just slightly forward while holding my string hand steady giving my back muscles the tension to create a release.  The string would "slip" off my fingers.  Almost a controlled, surprise release.

It really to me is bringing the shoulders together at the completion of the draw.  This does not mean the bow arm has to be straight.  It can actually still have a bit of a bend in it.  At least, that works for me.  It is a rather relaxed feeling.  If it is not, I am afraid your back tension is too much. Rigid.

Just my thoughts.
Title: Re: What a difference!
Post by: BruceT on January 30, 2020, 01:40:40 PM
   Good information from everyone ! Thanks Jock Whisky !