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Main Boards => PowWow => Topic started by: Recurve7 on May 14, 2018, 07:05:15 AM

Title: Brass nock or tie on?
Post by: Recurve7 on May 14, 2018, 07:05:15 AM
What are the pros and cons of brass nocking points opposed to tie on?
I use both, if I had to choose one though it would be tie on.
They are easy on my shooting glove.  A little less weight also. Am I missing anything here?
Title: Re: Brass nock or tie on?
Post by: katman on May 14, 2018, 07:25:07 AM
Prefer tie on for reasons you mentioned as well as easier to adjust nock point level during tuning.
Title: Re: Brass nock or tie on?
Post by: Zwickey-Fever on May 14, 2018, 07:29:35 AM
Tie on. nocks for me, (B-50), easier to turn, quieter and string nocks are a wee bit faster than the brass nocks.
Title: Re: Brass nock or tie on?
Post by: Ray Lyon on May 14, 2018, 07:34:36 AM
tie on for me for the last three years. All pros no cons.
Title: Re: Brass nock or tie on?
Post by: Lakerat007 on May 14, 2018, 07:57:51 AM
Tie on for me, mainly cause I'm cheap and didn't ever feel like paying for brass and tool. Lifetime supply of serving
Title: Re: Brass nock or tie on?
Post by: Trenton G. on May 14, 2018, 08:08:53 AM
I always used brass because I liked the way it looked. Don't know if that's a good reason or not. I've got some tie on nocks as well and don't really notice a difference between the two other than installation.
Title: Re: Brass nock or tie on?
Post by: Tedd on May 14, 2018, 08:29:07 AM
Tie on. The constrictor knot type. The best instruction is a video by Ryan Sanpei (SP?). (the Hawaiian guy). It's on Tradgang somewhere. The knots are adjustable and never move. Actually it's the only thing I have used that really never moves. And they look nice too.
Tedd
Title: Re: Brass nock or tie on?
Post by: Roy from Pa on May 14, 2018, 08:33:48 AM
Tie on.
I've had bow strings break right where the brass nocks were.
Tie on's are easier on my tab where brass nocks would mar it.
Title: Brass nock or tie on?
Post by: Bisch on May 14, 2018, 08:43:11 AM
Tie on can be adjusted with no tools also. I use the alternate overhand knot method and I do not put glue on them. I tie them tight and they do not move in their own . I’ll never use a brass nock again!!!!!

Bisch


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
Title: Re: Brass nock or tie on?
Post by: Red Beastmaster on May 14, 2018, 09:06:27 AM
Brass for the last 33 years. I'm too old to change now.
Title: Re: Brass nock or tie on?
Post by: JRY309 on May 14, 2018, 09:38:45 AM
Tie on,been tying on my nocks for 20+ years and I use two tie on nocks.Just looks more traditional to me and no chance of scratching the bows riser when unstrung.No tools needed to install!
Title: Re: Brass nock or tie on?
Post by: JBrown on May 14, 2018, 03:25:18 PM
I've always used a brass nock just because it was easier for me but I just got a Java man bow and it came with a tie on nock, this is the first one I've ever used and I am liking it. The tie on looks a lot better to me also.
Title: Re: Brass nock or tie on?
Post by: Terry Green on May 14, 2018, 03:45:52 PM
Tie on nocks are easier on your glove and do way less however the pros for the brass nicj is they won't slip over time as easy as tie on... .... I certainly can't blame not killing an animal on a brass nock point being.... however I can attest to missing an animal because my nock Point slipped with a tie on... okay... you catch my drift on that?....

So if you do the time please keep super glue on it please or you may miss the chance of a lifetime....
Title: Re: Brass nock or tie on?
Post by: Keefer on May 14, 2018, 04:24:41 PM
I used to do brass until I learned how to tie on from the Hawaiian guy technique and then I found an easier one to tie on then that from another fella named Rick...Both are good tutorials for sure .
 
Title: Re: Brass nock or tie on?
Post by: A Lex on May 14, 2018, 04:56:41 PM
Always used a tie on nock point.

Found Charlie Lambs tie on nock point in the "How-To's" (I think) here on Tradgang a few years ago, so now, after the nock point position has been established, a "Charlie" nock point is tied in.

These are brilliant, they will never ever move and easily last the life of the string.

Don't know how to add a link to the post, but a search should find it.

Best
Lex
Title: Re: Brass nock or tie on?
Post by: Sirius Black on May 14, 2018, 05:30:44 PM
Tie on. 
Title: Re: Brass nock or tie on?
Post by: David Mitchell on May 14, 2018, 05:40:05 PM
Tie on.  Never had one slip, don't tear up my tab.
Title: Re: Brass nock or tie on?
Post by: Roy from Pa on May 14, 2018, 06:47:59 PM
Charlie's tie on link.

http://www.tradgang.com/tgsmf/index.php?topic=108909.0
Title: Re: Brass nock or tie on?
Post by: OkKeith on May 14, 2018, 07:00:27 PM
I use a double tie on... one above the arrow nock, one below. Top nock is flat dental floss (white) the bottom is serving material. I serve the bow string like normal then put the bow square on and add the top floss nock. Remove the bow square and put an arrow on the string. I then double serve over the original serving and form a nock like Charlie does.

Works great for my three under shooting.

OkKeith

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Brass nock or tie on?
Post by: Pointer on May 14, 2018, 07:42:33 PM
tie on for me
Title: Re: Brass nock or tie on?
Post by: BWallace10327 on May 14, 2018, 10:59:15 PM
I prefer a tie on nock.  I have used 10# power pro line or dental floss.  Either way, I wrap a few times and whip finish twice, finish it up with a drop of super glue.  I've not had an issue in 10 years. 
Title: Re: Brass nock or tie on?
Post by: scrub-buster on May 14, 2018, 11:03:06 PM
Tie on with a bit of superglue.
Title: Re: Brass nock or tie on?
Post by: A Lex on May 15, 2018, 03:34:24 AM
Thanks Roy

Best
Lex
Title: Re: Brass nock or tie on?
Post by: Sam McMichael on May 15, 2018, 09:45:55 AM
Brass. I could never really tie one on that didn't slip. I don't believe there is any discernible  benefit to a tie on other than a person's personal preference. Actually, it has never been a factor in any way regarding the way I shoot other than getting its location on the string right.
Title: Re: Brass nock or tie on?
Post by: Terry Green on May 15, 2018, 10:16:34 AM
 I'm going to have to check out the thread Charlie was talking about cuz I do prefer tie on.... I really do but I've had a tendency for mine to slip so I'm going to check that out ...you are never too old to learn something
Title: Re: Brass nock or tie on?
Post by: Bisch on May 15, 2018, 01:20:06 PM
Like I said above, I tie mine on tight. I use the alternate overhand knot method. In all the years I have been using this method, I have never had a nock point slip on a string. I just tied two one my new SteveB string a few minutes ago. I needed to move the bottom one just a tad, and had to get a pair of pliers to get it to move at first.

Bisch


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
Title: Re: Brass nock or tie on?
Post by: LBR on May 15, 2018, 02:24:35 PM
I use both, depending on the situation and if I'm in a hurry.  Never had a problem with a brass nock damaging my glove or string, or with a tie-on slipping (I use BCY's nock tying thread).

IMO it boils down to using the right tool(s) for the job.  Brass nocks require a quality tool to crimp them on smooth and round and not pinch the string underneath.  Tie-on need to be the right material and tied on properly. 

FWIW, I've been using brass nock sets for around 25 years, pretty much exclusively the first 15-18 years.  I've helped coach a NASP team for 7 years (last 5 we've been North Half and State Champions), and we use tie-on nocks exclusively (brass isn't allowed in the NASP).  I've had a lot of experience with both.
Title: Re: Brass nock or tie on?
Post by: McDave on May 15, 2018, 03:58:44 PM


I have been mainly using Ryan Sanpei’s clinch knot. I like the 80# test bowfishing line from 3 Rivers for tying it.  After trying a lot of things, I really liked the bowfishing line, so I ordered another 3 rolls of it, as it’s pretty cheap.  A lot of times I decide I like something, and then they quit making it.

https://www.3riversarchery.com/braided-nylon-bowfishing-line.html (https://www.3riversarchery.com/braided-nylon-bowfishing-line.html)
Title: Re: Brass nock or tie on?
Post by: David McLendon on May 15, 2018, 04:28:43 PM
I tie on and I don't glue them, I haven't had a problem with movement but I check mine regularly. My bow square is marked for nock position as well as brace height, and I have an arrow marked for BH.
 If I travel to a hunt and need to reassemble my bow it only takes a minute to put it right here it needs to be.
Title: Re: Brass nock or tie on?
Post by: black velvet on May 15, 2018, 04:55:53 PM
Tie on is all I use.
Title: Re: Brass nock or tie on?
Post by: Kelly on May 15, 2018, 05:21:41 PM


I have been mainly using Ryan Sanpei’s clinch knot. I like the 80# test bowfishing line from 3 Rivers for tying it.  After trying a lot of things, I really liked the bowfishing line, so I ordered another 3 rolls of it, as it’s pretty cheap.  A lot of times I decide I like something, and then they quit making it.

https://www.3riversarchery.com/braided-nylon-bowfishing-line.html (https://www.3riversarchery.com/braided-nylon-bowfishing-line.html)

Am I missing something here but in the picture looks like there are two places the arrow nock could rest on-no definitive edge like the brass.

Been using brass for almost 60 years with absolutely no issues, no cut tabs, no cut nocks, no slippage, very easy to adjust. FYI, the splice of the brass nock point should be directly opposite the arrow. This way there is no nock gouging nor any tab/glove cutting. Also just a little squeeze where the sharp edges of nock point takes care of the sharpness. When adjusting brace height do it in even numbers, 2, 4, 6 twists, etc. That way the splice will stay opposite the arrow.

Now for tie ons, I won't do them not because I can't learn how but because there is no definitive stop, slippage unless you glue it, then if you want to adjust it you can't. Have bought lots of used bows over the years with tie on nocking point. None of them were moveable and the vast majority were in the wrong place for my shooting so have to cut them off very carefully, urgh!

That said most of the brass nocking points I see on used bows are in the wrong place for my style but they are easily moved to a lower setting.
Title: Re: Brass nock or tie on?
Post by: Rufus on May 15, 2018, 05:49:18 PM
https://youtu.be/1YlYqDiJN8U

This be what I use.
Title: Re: Brass nock or tie on?
Post by: McDave on May 15, 2018, 06:39:44 PM
“Am I missing something here but in the picture looks like there are two places the arrow nock could rest on-no definitive edge like the brass.“

The arrow nock stops when it hits any part of the tied on nock, which is the part of the tied on nock that is closest to the arrow nock.  The arrow nock won't slide up onto the second level of the tied on nock, if that's what you mean.  One of the reasons I like the material I use is that it is thick enough to make a definite edge that the arrow nock hits.  The thickness also keeps it from digging into the serving.

My experience is that people generally cinch down an adjustable nock when they get it where they want it.  If they want to move it again, they have to cut it off and tie another one.  I have never had Ryan's knot move after it is cinched down, and doesn’t require glue, so it is easy to cut off.
Title: Re: Brass nock or tie on?
Post by: GDPolk on May 15, 2018, 07:42:38 PM
I shoot 3 under on a skinny string.  I prefer a brass top nock and a tie on bottom nock. 

I've had one instance when a tie on nock on the top moved a little bit despite even a touch of superglue being applied to the top of it.  I likely didn't have enough glue on it to begin with AND it was on my practice string which had a LOT of shots in it and was pretty much ready to be replaced.  I've never had a brass nock drift.

Pro's for tie on:
  • lighter weight
  • easier to adjust when tuning
  • easier on arrows
  • easier on fingers and/or release aids

Pro's for brass:
  • more durable (although that's likely irrelevant since the string itself is also a wear component and tie on's consistently last for the lifetime of a string)
  • easier to feel, especially in winter time with cold or gloved hands for arrow placement in low light
  • marginally less likely in my experience to drift with use

For these reasons, with me shooting 3-under I put brass on the top to reduce the risk of nock point drift and a tie on for the bottom nock to reduce wear on my glove and keep the string as light as possible without sacrificing the dead holding power of the top nock which gets the majority of the stress for a 3-under shooter anyway.  In the end they both work and both work pretty well and both methods have stood the test of time.  I don't think there is a right or wrong way to do it but I go brass on the top and tie on for the bottom for the aforementioned reasons.
Title: Re: Brass nock or tie on?
Post by: Bisch on May 15, 2018, 11:20:48 PM
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180516/d93e055ac081615cbdf91d97e2a926ff.jpg)

Alternating overhand knot method, and I also use BCY Nock Tying Thread

Bisch


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
Title: Re: Brass nock or tie on?
Post by: two4hooking on May 16, 2018, 12:28:50 PM
I tie a dental floss nock by making a loop on the serving and wrapping a hump of floss over it.  When done put the tag end through the loop and pull that loop under the mound to lock it in place (it may break but that is fine).  Use some superglue to make sure it doesn't slip once confirmed.

(http://i.imgur.com/SbiX4DX.jpg) (https://imgur.com/SbiX4DX)
Title: Re: Brass nock or tie on?
Post by: Tedd on May 16, 2018, 05:58:05 PM
Here is where I learned the knot. Super easy. And they never slip. Even on a really short bows where the angle of the arrow tries to jack your two nocking points apart. No glue needed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jgk0y4WFRK0

Title: Re: Brass nock or tie on?
Post by: McDave on May 16, 2018, 08:11:05 PM
I use the same knot as Tedd.  The secret to making the knot so it doesn't slip is the tightening system that Ryan uses.  The second secret is burning the ends and flattening them. You can see the flattened ends in the photo of mine above.
Title: Re: Brass nock or tie on?
Post by: Kelly on May 16, 2018, 09:05:05 PM
Just watched Ryan's videos. Will give it a try as I'm getting low on brass nock points, but have lots of 8125 bow string material and different sizes of serving.
Title: Re: Brass nock or tie on?
Post by: smokin joe on May 17, 2018, 02:13:10 PM
I used to use brass, but I did not like the way they tore up my glove. So, I switched to the tie-on variety, but then I discovered something I like much better than either brass or tie on...

Here is the link to the Trad Gang thread I posted about the nock points I have used for the last 7 or 8 years:

http://www.tradgang.com/tgsmf/index.php?topic=104981.msg1973547#msg1973547
Title: Re: Brass nock or tie on?
Post by: Lakerat007 on May 17, 2018, 04:35:42 PM
Not sure of the name of knot I tie, but it's a fishing bobber stopper knot. I also like fly tying head cement for glueing it in place. It holds well and if I ever do need to move it, a hard twist will free it up to slide up and down the string.
Title: Re: Brass nock or tie on?
Post by: Red Beastmaster on May 18, 2018, 12:21:23 AM
I am surprised by the overwhelming majority of tie ons. I made one once about 20 years ago when I ran out of brass. Didn't like it at all. Nearly everyone I hang with uses brass.
Title: Re: Brass nock or tie on?
Post by: lone hunter on May 18, 2018, 08:31:41 AM
Both, brass on top, tie-on on bottom.
Title: Re: Brass nock or tie on?
Post by: kevsuperg on May 18, 2018, 09:43:43 AM
I like a tie on simply because I can replace it in the field.
 I don't always have a brass nock and pliers with me but I always have some Paracord.
 Pull it apart and use a single strand to make a very serviceable nock point should my nock point come loose.
Title: Re: Brass nock or tie on?
Post by: Steve D on May 18, 2018, 10:53:17 AM
 Some mention loss of speed with brass nock, I think were splitting hairs on that one, do not think there that heavy grain wise to have that effect on performance.
Title: Re: Brass nock or tie on?
Post by: McDave on May 18, 2018, 12:20:40 PM
I am surprised by the overwhelming majority of tie ons. I made one once about 20 years ago when I ran out of brass. Didn't like it at all. Nearly everyone I hang with uses brass.

I would imagine the overwhelming majority of people use brass nocks, and are no more interested in a discussion of brass vs tied-on nocks than they would be in a discussion of hand made vs machine made paper clips.
Title: Re: Brass nock or tie on?
Post by: Charlie Lamb on May 18, 2018, 03:07:59 PM
Are you crazy? Machine made paper clips are far superior.  :saywhat:
Title: Re: Brass nock or tie on?
Post by: Roy from Pa on May 18, 2018, 03:18:05 PM
I've noticed that paper clips slip.

I use a stapler...

 :biglaugh:
Title: Re: Brass nock or tie on?
Post by: McDave on May 18, 2018, 04:37:08 PM
Are you crazy? Machine made paper clips are far superior.  :saywhat:

That's because you've evidently not tried a paperclip made from the spring steel salvaged off an abandoned clicker.  There must be thousands of clickers out there free for the asking that people have tried once or twice and then put in a drawer because they didn’t like them.  Get the spring steel from two of those babies and a pop rivet and you're in business!  To put icing on the cake, the hole for the pop rivet has already been drilled!  Which is hard to do in spring steel!
Title: Re: Brass nock or tie on?
Post by: Charlie Lamb on May 18, 2018, 07:05:23 PM
youtube? :goldtooth:
Title: Re: Brass nock or tie on?
Post by: McDave on May 18, 2018, 08:38:36 PM
youtube? :goldtooth:

I don't want to make it too easy for you guys until I have my patent.
Title: Re: Brass nock or tie on?
Post by: Orion on May 19, 2018, 11:23:22 PM
Hmmmm.  I used brass nocks for a lot of years without any trouble.  Switched to tie-ons several years ago just because they looked better to me.  No problem with them either.

However, now I use masking tape.  I shoot skinny carbons and not so skinny woods so am often changing nocking point heights. Four wraps of 3/4-inch masking tape above and below the arrow nock and I'm good to go.  It's remarkably durable, though certainly not as durable as brass or a tie-on. But it's a whole lot easier to remove and change. It takes about a minute per nock point to pull the old tape and wrap on new.

Title: Re: Brass nock or tie on?
Post by: Bldtrailer on May 19, 2018, 11:39:57 PM
tie  :archer: one on( I really tie on 2 one under one over :biglaugh:
Title: Re: Brass nock or tie on?
Post by: BowHunterGA on May 21, 2018, 07:59:12 AM
I tie mine, usually tie two, one above and one below. I use the same basic process I use for finishing the serving on a string. Once tied I snug it slightly, adjust the the proper height and then cinch it in place. After a test shot or two I lock it in with a little super glue. Never had one slip.