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State Trad Bowhunting Orgs => New York - Trad Bowhunters of NY => Topic started by: Bobtulowiecki on June 02, 2015, 08:57:00 PM

Title: DEC Antler Restrictions
Post by: Bobtulowiecki on June 02, 2015, 08:57:00 PM
Anyone catch the email from NYB regarding the state's proposed antler restrictions in some designated areas?  If not the information is at the following link:
Title: Re: DEC Antler Restrictions
Post by: Bobaru on June 04, 2015, 10:51:00 AM
Well, I hunt 8N, 8H, and 8R.  Seems to me that such a move would make me spend more time in 8R.

Fine with me.

My spot in 8R has an explosion in deer population - more so than where I hunt in 8N or 8H.

Seems NYS has few really good options for controlling the deer populations.  That's okay with me too, 'cause I can put lots of venison on the table and racks in my loft.

It also seems to me that NYS Bowhunters gets themselves too worked up about things sometimes.
Title: Re: DEC Antler Restrictions
Post by: woodchucker on June 04, 2015, 04:50:00 PM
Antler restrictions are a farce!!!!!

I hunt in Deleware Co. (4W) with a 3pts one side restriction... The only thing it did, was create more little "Basket Rack" bucks that are unshootable, because you can't count the points untill they're almost in your lap!!!!!

However... I didn't see anything about "antler restrictions" in the release. Only a proposed "1 buck,per hunter" which is exactly the way it was when I started bowhunting back in 1976. You were allowed 1 deer on your single deer tag. Gun Season, was "Bucks Only" unless you had a "Party Permit" (2-4 Hunters,per permit) for a doe. Bow Season, you could shoot 1 deer of either sex, on your single deer tag. My 1st 2 years bowhunting, I was done deer hunting, by the opening saturday of the Bow Season. (I shot a doe each year)

Idk, Maybe we should just go back to the "Old Days".....
Title: Re: DEC Antler Restrictions
Post by: Wapiti Chaser on June 04, 2015, 06:37:00 PM
There are two different topics here 1) Is the DEC looking to "increase antlerless harvest" by restricting buck's during the first 15 days of archery and all of late archery. 2)The "Antler Point" restriction plan that has several different options including the one buck per year among several other options.

In theory the one buck per year would be a good compromise between the antler point restriction and the I want to shoot any buck crowds. I don't think we would see much difference in quality of deer in the long run as many people disregard the law totally now and use there spouses,friends,buddies etc.. tags. Kinda like the SAFE act will stop gun violence !  

But the antlerless only for the first 15 days of archery and all of late archery I do not agree with.

Another "option" in the DEC's plan is antler point restrictions for all of archery season and the first week of gun season then if it's brown it's down.
Title: Re: DEC Antler Restrictions
Post by: Cyclic-Rivers on June 04, 2015, 07:01:00 PM
I do not agree with the antlerless restrictions for the beginning of the season and then changing over. Its just a feeling with no scientific evidence to support but It seems to me this will not change anything in the long run.  I wish there was some data to show how many yearling bucks were harvested during this time. compared to all other deer taken.

It seems to me this would close off the ability to shoot bucks until cross bows are ready to hit the woods.

I think the one buck Rule would go a long way in helping hunters decide on what's right for them and be more selective but not isolate the guy who wants one deer for meat. Other states have adopted this strategy with tremendous success.

Earn a buck plain out works for reducing  herd numbers but they would have to be selective on where to initiate this.

I also think harvest reports are underestimated.  It would be nice to have the old fashioned check stations again. I know you will always have the guys who dont follow the law.  That is why I support having more officers in the field.

Antler restrictions are fine if the main goal is to increase buck size but I think that would only eventually be to entice the out of state hunters who have far better places to go if they are horn hunting anyhow.

I think whatever they initiate, it should be a policy that stands throughout all deer seasons,not directed at one group for a  partial season.
Title: Re: DEC Antler Restrictions
Post by: Skipmaster1 on June 04, 2015, 07:39:00 PM
Antlerless only for the first 15 days is a crock. If anything it's going to reduce the harvest as guys will just wait to hit the woods later in the season. I'm a doe hunter except for a few weeks around the rut, but I've taken some real big bucks early season. Some by chance, some because i can pattern them. I'm not happy about being out there with no buck tag. It's not going to "entice" me to shoot more does. Most years I take at least 6 for the freezer anyway. This just sounds like punishment. They are grasping at straws. For a long time they gave us an either sex tag for every DMP we used. That was crazy because guys were going out and hammering every buck they could then. We had up to 8 bucks. They finally did away with that but can't figure out how to get more does down. It's more a lack of access than anything. Lots of guys would shoot a doe if given the opportunity even if hoping for a buck. If they just wait until later to hunt now, less does will be shot. I also see how bucks will just be tagged in another WMU if a good one comes by someone. It's just so backwards.

I don't like antler restrictions because lots of 1.5 year old deer are 6 and 8 pointers here. Making them fair game while old spikes and 4's would be off limits. I'd rather see 1 buck tag statewide, any weapon and an earn a buck for archery. That to me would be a great compromise. Get the does down and limit buck take.
Title: Re: DEC Antler Restrictions
Post by: Cyclic-Rivers on June 05, 2015, 07:32:00 AM
Great points Greg. I have seen in places where they had a  3 or 4 point rule, lesser genes get passed along more producing giant 6's and forks and places like the family farm, deer break off antlers/tines making them off limits.

Another place I hunted, spike bucks ruled because the farmer didn't want spikes shot, only forked racks or larger. He had this practice for 25 years. in 2 seasons I hunted there before the farmers untimely death, I saw 18 and 26 spikes respectively, 1 forked buck (3 point). many of the spikes were 1.5 year olds and most were doing the breeding.  The plan sounded good on paper but wasn't working.  I do miss that farm, it was not only beautiful but deer were abundant.

Reading the blurb on NY Bowhunters, it wasn't clear what the DEC's intentions are.

The tools they mention are for managing completely different goals.

Herd reduction, improving the average ave of animals in the herd, increasing rack size.  Although some of these have a little overlap, non of them serve the same purpose.
Title: Re: DEC Antler Restrictions
Post by: Bobtulowiecki on June 05, 2015, 09:14:00 AM
Great points guys- I think the unfortunate state of affairs for the way New York State is run allows one to wonder what the "real" motives are.  
I do like the "1 buck per season" idea like many states have implemented.  At the end of the day I am happy to get out and have the opportunity to spend some time in the woods.
Title: Re: DEC Antler Restrictions
Post by: woodchucker on July 02, 2015, 09:43:00 AM
It's been awhile since this was up top...

I think the whole "QDM" "Antler Restriction" thing, is a TOTAL BUST!!!!! The ONLY way it can possibly work, is on LARGE tracts of private land with a very controlled hunting environment!!!

Last year, Tyler & I had 2 Spikes shot in front of us,(either which he could have shot, as he was under 16 & not governed by the 3pt side rule)because a local hunter on adjoining property shot acrossed the property line thinking they were Does. He came & recovered the one that ran back & dropped in front of us. However, we found another 2 hours later, in a gully along the property line. We went back to camp & called the DEC, but in the 3 1/2 hours it took them to get there, the hunter had come & got it.

I think the State should focus on balancing the Buck/Doe ratio, rather than trying to focus on "Big Horns!!!!! 1 Buck per Hunter, Antlers 3" or more... Any extra tags, should be Doe tags!!!

I'll get off my soapbox now.....
Title: Re: DEC Antler Restrictions
Post by: LittleBen on November 29, 2015, 10:56:00 AM
Well I guess I'll speak up for the other side.

I've been hunting a small piece of private land in 4S since about 2007 and my experience has been an increase in big bucks in the years following the antler restriction.

I also hunted a military base with a long running QDMA program (4pts+ on one side) and I e never seen so many whoppers in my life.

There are no guarantees in hunting, but you won't have big boys unless you let the little ones go.
Title: Re: DEC Antler Restrictions
Post by: Kingstaken on December 03, 2015, 11:24:00 AM
Has everyone experienced a low population of deer this year due to not making it past last years winter and increased coyotes? Everyone I speak to say they hear howling during the day and very small amount of deer.
Title: Re: DEC Antler Restrictions
Post by: LittleBen on December 03, 2015, 03:56:00 PM
I think it depends on the area. 4S has been good to me but I have a low pressure area of private land with few if any hunting neighbors. I think the deer numbers are still not the highest I've ever seen, but it's hardly scarce.

I hunt also in 6S and it has been very slow. Opening weekend yielded 1 buck (yours truly) out of 4 hunters, 6 hunters if you count the neighbors there. This is on a 100acre farm that only gets pressure from me bowhunting a few days a year. Neighboring properties are equally large.

I think the deer herd is definately down.

I also think a lot of these areas are getting WAY TOO MUCH hunting pressure and deer take. 6S is all nice farmland and should be loaded with bucks, but that's definately not what we see.

I often wonder if NYSDEC will ever go to lottery for buck tags.