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Topic Archives => Shooting => Topic started by: Bible5 on February 07, 2005, 06:51:00 PM

Title: G. Fred Asbell..bending knees..Why?
Post by: Bible5 on February 07, 2005, 06:51:00 PM
Just got through his video and he talks about bending at the knees. Does anyone do this ?  and if so why does it help?  I don't understand his point.  :help:
Title: Re: G. Fred Asbell..bending knees..Why?
Post by: Reiver on February 07, 2005, 07:17:00 PM
A lot of people really like him, but I always found it difficult to shoot in the exact manner he described. I felt awkward and off-balance. I do bend my knees, but it's more situational and my body doesn't lean forward at the waist like his does while doing so. His shooting form just doesn't feel right for me.
Title: Re: G. Fred Asbell..bending knees..Why?
Post by: Scott Gray on February 07, 2005, 07:36:00 PM
I find that bending at the knees steadies the lower body. Bend at the knees, slightly at the waist and it makes it easy to keep  my head down or closer to the arrow.

Scott
Title: Re: G. Fred Asbell..bending knees..Why?
Post by: Terry Green on February 07, 2005, 07:49:00 PM
That's the way HE shoots, its part of his shot. If it don't work for you, just leave it on the table. I bend only if I need to, i.e. limb clearance, hiding and such.

Just as with watching, listening, or learning from any shooter...some things may work for you, and other may not.  Gotta come up with what works for you.
Title: Re: G. Fred Asbell..bending knees..Why?
Post by: HARL on February 07, 2005, 07:51:00 PM
Tried bending at the knees when I shot ,but it made me pass gas when I drew the bow!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: G. Fred Asbell..bending knees..Why?
Post by: Dan Worden on February 07, 2005, 07:56:00 PM
I see his point about it increasing focus, but just can't do it myself.

Beyond the squat though I do shoot Asbell style. Sometimes for the better, sometimes.....
Title: Re: G. Fred Asbell..bending knees..Why?
Post by: Bible5 on February 07, 2005, 08:06:00 PM
Yes Harl I see your point...passing gas at the moment of truth might just spook the deer AS THEY GOT WIND OF YOU!!  ha ha
Title: Re: G. Fred Asbell..bending knees..Why?
Post by: Ray Lyon on February 07, 2005, 08:08:00 PM
As mentioned above, it's to increase the mental focus. I think in his book or video, he cites a study by law enforcement officers on the pistol range improving their scores by bending at the knees.

As Terry mentions above, if it doesn't work for you, you don't need to try and incorporate into your shot. Everyone shoots differently and just like the old saying in the restaurant industry about there's no such thing as an original recipe, so is it for shooting style and method. Garner tidbits from everywhere and try them, if it helps, keep it, if not discard it and move on.

I'd consider consistent hand placement on the bow, consistent draw length, consistent anchor and release as the gospel items. Beyond that, it's up to you to play around with what works for you.
Title: Re: G. Fred Asbell..bending knees..Why?
Post by: Dan Adair on February 07, 2005, 08:19:00 PM
Being both a competitive pistol shooter (IDPA and IPSC limited) and a martial artist, I can't shoot a bow without bending slightly at the knees.  Most people wouldn't even notice that I do it, thats how sleight.  Its just enough to help me feel really rooted to the earth.

Don't even get me started on breathing  :)
Title: Re: G. Fred Asbell..bending knees..Why?
Post by: Rod Parsons on February 07, 2005, 08:27:00 PM
Leaning forward works for me shooting instinctive, but it ain't compulsory. I see it as a kind of physical focus, like a gun dog pointing.
The sitting thing is interesting. I hear you about breaking wind, but this is not the time or place to go into that.
Interestingly though, in Selby's "Chinese Archery" you will find an example of a "sitting" stance as a classic form for drawing a very heavy bow, to provide a stable foundation but leaving the upper body free and no doubt  also having to do with centering chi in the diaphragm.
I have doubts about  habitually bending to take the face down to the bow, since this may tend to predispose towards disrupting efficient physical alignment, but I guess hunting you can get yourself into some quite strange poses and when you are real close all kinds of stuff can work that would be hopeless at real long distances with something truly heavy to draw back.
Rod.
Title: Re: G. Fred Asbell..bending knees..Why?
Post by: SuperKodiak38 on February 07, 2005, 08:33:00 PM
I think it improves your balance. If you have ever stood in formation for a long time, as I know many here have, if you lock your knees straight you will fall over. Bend slightly and you are golden. It works for me, it feels awkward but it helps lower my center of gravity as Rod says anchors me.
Title: Re: G. Fred Asbell..bending knees..Why?
Post by: Stagmitis on February 07, 2005, 08:46:00 PM
Bible5,


Personally I use varying degrees of bend. When  target shooting, my knees are never "locked"  but always carry a slight unnoticable bend. Aerial or moving targets I used a very pronounced bend. Like palehunter suggests I beleive it "Steadies" the lower body and aids in maintaining a solid form.


Howard Hill always bent at the knees to some degree or another as well. Most crucial when shooting aerial or running targets.


Try this......


Stand straight with knees locked and try to quickly shoot the rabbit that jumps up 8:00 to your left or right.


Now bend your knees and try it again. Youll notice how easy it is to swivel in either direction or up and down for that matter!


Stagmitis
Title: Re: G. Fred Asbell..bending knees..Why?
Post by: Shaun on February 07, 2005, 09:36:00 PM
"sinking" is a way of getting more solid which may make shooting easier. I shoot better from a chair or kneeling than standing for the same reason. In G Fred's case, I think he bends his knees bedause he is about 9 feet tall and the deer is only 2 1/2 feet tall.
Title: Re: G. Fred Asbell..bending knees..Why?
Post by: five-oh on February 07, 2005, 09:58:00 PM
I have never read any of Fred's stuff on form, but I too bend at the waist.  It seems like lowering my center of gravity just gives me a more stable platform when I shoot.  I also bend a little at the waist and lean forward a bit.  It probably aint right, but works for me.
Title: Re: G. Fred Asbell..bending knees..Why?
Post by: Vance in AK. on February 07, 2005, 11:37:00 PM
I don't know why it helps, but when I bend slightly at the knees & waiste as he suggests, I do shoot better.
Title: Re: G. Fred Asbell..bending knees..Why?
Post by: Jeff Strubberg on February 07, 2005, 11:51:00 PM
Might have something to do with Fred being nine foot four inches tall....

 ;)
Title: Re: G. Fred Asbell..bending knees..Why?
Post by: Rod Parsons on February 08, 2005, 04:23:00 AM
That's right, shooting one shot you can get away with all kinds of stuff if you are good at it.
I guess the so called "classic" form derives from cultures where you have to shoot heavy arrows a long way out of big draw weights repeatedly and with some hope of accuracy.
It is common to all cultures where archery in warfare became highly developed.
The hunched style is typical in many hunting cultures and probably derives from shooting up close and the desire to limit apparent movement.
Every conceivable style has it's roots in function, someplace, sometime.
Rod.
Title: Re: G. Fred Asbell..bending knees..Why?
Post by: Thunderbow on February 08, 2005, 04:33:00 AM
"I think in his book or video (Asbel), he cites a study by law enforcement officers on the pistol range improving their scores by bending at the knees."

Then why don't olympic archers used Fred's technique?  Because it would dramatically decrease their accuracy, especially at longer distances.  It is a less stable platform to shoot anything beyind say 15-20yds.  Saying there is a need to constantly shoot arrows from a crouching position with a stick, just like Asbel, is not a good claim.  Standing up with good posture without any leg bend or waist bend is the most stable stance you can have.  Of course, hunting situations may dictate you use something else at the time...  Best to be prepared for them, too.
Title: Re: G. Fred Asbell..bending knees..Why?
Post by: Rod Parsons on February 08, 2005, 05:20:00 AM
I would say that Olympic archers, in fact consistent target archers in general, don't stand the way they do so as to be accurate per se, they do it so as to be able to minimise physical variation and to be consistently accurate. The essential distinction is between what you need to do to hit once, and what you need to do to hit with consecutive shots, up to 12 dozen times. Target archery is about doing exactly the same thing, repeatedly.
Hunting is more about making one shot.
With war bows it becomes a question of having a technique which allows you to throw a heavy penetrating shaft further than someone who might be shooting back, which in turn requires mastering a technique which allows you to repeatedly shoot weights beyond what most of us would even want to string.
If you look at the style of someone like Ishi, what is immediately apparent is that he is minimising movements that can be seen from the point of view of his prey and that his drawing technique will also place a limit on the poundage he would have been able to shoot with any control.
Likewise an unassisted pinch grip and the strength of your pinch will determine the poundage at which the arrow will be loosed.
In practice, form is a product of function and is refined according to necessity except where it is culturally embedded to the point that it becomes an unquestioned convention.
But then nature has a way of coming along and delivering a swift kick up the behind, and you adapt or go under.
Rod.
Title: Re: G. Fred Asbell..bending knees..Why?
Post by: Swamp Yankee on February 08, 2005, 07:40:00 AM
Check out G. Fred's article on being overbowed in the last issue of Traditional Bowhunter, he's standing up like an olympic shooter (first pict; not the 2nd woodchuck stalking position!).  I agree, body position is situational more often than not.  Find out what works for you most of the time, and do that most of the time.
Title: Re: G. Fred Asbell..bending knees..Why?
Post by: Shawn Leonard on February 08, 2005, 07:51:00 AM
I shoot with my kness bent slightly also, but when ishoot a recurve(which I do 99% of the time) I do not bend at the waist unless the shot dictates that I do, like limb clearance or shot angle. I do however bend quite a bit at the waist whenI shoot a longbow and I cant the bow a lot more with the lonbbow as well. I agree with Terry, do what works for you. I have become a decent shot over the years, but am still improving and willing to try anything to shopot better, but it has to work for me and what does may not work for someone else. Shawn
Title: Re: G. Fred Asbell..bending knees..Why?
Post by: Randy Koleno on February 08, 2005, 09:45:00 AM
I also bend my knees and lean a bit. I just feel more balanced that way. The guys I shoot with that use a point of aim system tell me they stay upright and use a low anchor point so they can see the arrow tip better(Olympic Style?). I think I shoot instinctive, if I intentionally try to use the arrow to aim, it gets ugly quick. I probably gap or gunbarrel to some extent. Also, when I lean over the arrow, it hits in line left/right. When I stand upright, I hit consistantly left. Experiment to find out what works for you. I never did find a use for the swing draw though.
Title: Re: G. Fred Asbell..bending knees..Why?
Post by: Shawn Leonard on February 08, 2005, 11:28:00 AM
I agree with the part about being consistent on targets and good instinctive or gap shooters don't score well is the fact it is not interesting to them. I shot with Tom and a bunch from here and even doing 3-D it is not all that exciting for me. I shot ten- or twelve different bows to keep it interesting. I know if I had stuck with one, I would of shot as well as anyone, but I also would of been bored out of my mind. I have my own way of shooting and of having fun and that is what works for me, not someone elses style of either. It is all good!!  Shawn
Title: Re: G. Fred Asbell..bending knees..Why?
Post by: Ron LaClair on February 08, 2005, 12:04:00 PM
Fred's teachings on his shooting style are geared towards hunting, not target archery. I never could understand why Fred gets so much criticism for teaching a style that works well for him.

Nobody criticizes Fred Bears shooting style even though his style and G Fred's are very simular, but then Fred Bear didn't put out a book and video on the subject. If he had he'd probably get roasted also.   ;)

Fred has been criticized for squating and hunching when he shoots. I've shot with him many times over the years and I think the squating and hunching is grossly exaggerated. But lets say that he does bend his knees and lean at the waist, I call that the "predator mode". It's a natural body position when stalking or shooting at an animal.

Bottom line is that no one shooting style is for everyone. If it works for you fine but just because it doesn't work for you, that doesn't mean it's not a good style.

This is just my opinion but I think if a person squats and hunches a little he may just be a little more successful in his hunting endevors than a person who stands up straight like a target archer.    ;)
Title: Re: G. Fred Asbell..bending knees..Why?
Post by: Montauks on February 08, 2005, 12:21:00 PM
Freds "stance" , bending at the knees and I believe he also keeps his rear foot at a close to 45 degree angle to his front foot is a classic martial arts stance, it keeps you more stable and balanced and therefore makes good sense for hunting.

Gene
Title: Re: G. Fred Asbell..bending knees..Why?
Post by: Rod Parsons on February 08, 2005, 12:24:00 PM
Shawn,
I might perhaps disagree about the gap shooters. Gap shooting is after all a consciously worked out system of aiming, predicated on knowing the distance, which is essentially similar to old fashioned target point of aim shooting where you actually know the distance before you start.
It will be far easier for a gap shooter to transition to target shooting than for a true instinctive.
For the instinctive, being able to put a number to the distance is most likely a distraction. It's my opinion that for a real instinctive there are only two distances, near enough and too far.
When he comes up to full draw it will either feel right or it will not.
Although the point may be in his field of vision his concentration on the mark will be such that he is not consciously aware of the gap.
Rod.
Title: Re: G. Fred Asbell..bending knees..Why?
Post by: Hackbow on February 08, 2005, 12:26:00 PM
If I may, I'd like to attempt a little clearing up of the issue (at least the way I see it).

1) I think we all agree that Mr. Asbell's style is his own and the "bend & hunch" aspect is specifically geared toward hunting situations.

2) I think we would all agree that target archery form is based in consistency and removal of variables.

3) I think we all would also agree that while hunting, you can be (most likely WILL be) in a position that is different than a classic target archer's pose.

If we assume the above to be true, common sense would lead us to believe that we need to be prepared for the variables we may encounter, because we know that in hunting we cannot control a number of those variables. So it would make sense from, a hunting standpoint, to be in a flexible position (knees bent, slightly hunched) where we were capable of pulling off a shot and not spooking the game.

I've read one of his books and adopted a few of his ideas. It made me a slightly better shooter, but it also helped me gain a bit more confidence in those hunting situations. I think those that would criticize Mr. Asbell for his comments should take note that he's not wearing bright white clothing and sporting stabilizers on his bows.  :)
Title: Re: G. Fred Asbell..bending knees..Why?
Post by: 8th Dwarf on February 08, 2005, 01:05:00 PM
Asbell bends at the knees because he is too tall to see under the tree limbs.  Normal sized people do not need to do that.

Personally, I think it's a lousy form habit and uncomfortable.  I tried it and my shooting suffered for it.

Too Short
Title: Re: G. Fred Asbell..bending knees..Why?
Post by: frankb on February 08, 2005, 01:27:00 PM
Good thread... I'm gonna weigh in just long enough so I get an e-mail reminder when a new post is made.  

One thing about this site... it's full of info... it never stops.  I love it.   :)  

-frankb
Title: Re: G. Fred Asbell..bending knees..Why?
Post by: Rod Parsons on February 08, 2005, 01:52:00 PM
I will say that shooting instinctive I do find myself more often than not  leaning forwards a little as my concentration peaks in synch with coming to a length, so he may well have a point about "pointing". No pun intended.
Without wanting to get too high falutin' it is probably true to describe this as a feeling of "falling" into the mark.
Come to think of it, that could be scary on a treestand, but it's not likely to be an issue living over here...
Rod.
Title: Re: G. Fred Asbell..bending knees..Why?
Post by: Bible5 on February 08, 2005, 03:26:00 PM
Hey Paul Brunner! Your video on instinctive shooting has helped me ALOT and I think it's really the best one out there! Thank you. Why don't you put out a new updated expanded version?  
    When I was watching the Asbell video I thought he was saying that by lowering your torso, by bending your knees, you would shoot better. I was simply wondering "why?" I'm only 5'7" so maybe I'm already down low enough to the ground!
Title: Re: G. Fred Asbell..bending knees..Why?
Post by: Shawn Leonard on February 08, 2005, 09:06:00 PM
Rod, disagree about the gap shooters or at least me!! I do not even think of yardage at all. I just pull up and see the arrow in my peripheral vision and shoot, I may not be a true gap shooter as they say Gap shooter put the point under the target, I do not do that. I, like Ron LaClair said have devised my own method both in form and my sight picture. It works for me, I am not great on targets of any type, but hold my own. I do kill plenty of game though, even though I have some bad slumps every year. I talked myself out of shooting good a least twice this year. Everyone who knows me will tell you I am good at that!! Talking that is!!(LOL!!)  Have Fun !!  Shawn
Title: Re: G. Fred Asbell..bending knees..Why?
Post by: Reiver on February 08, 2005, 09:33:00 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Shawn Leonard:
Rod, disagree about the gap shooters or at least me!! I do not even think of yardage at all. I just pull up and see the arrow in my peripheral vision and shoot, I may not be a true gap shooter as they say Gap shooter put the point under the target, I do not do that. I, like Ron LaClair said have devised my own method both in form and my sight picture. It works for me, I am not great on targets of any type, but hold my own. I do kill plenty of game though, even though I have some bad slumps every year. I talked myself out of shooting good a least twice this year. Everyone who knows me will tell you I am good at that!! Talking that is!!(LOL!!)  Have Fun !!  Shawn
Shawn, your method of shooting sounds very much like my own. I can't do a straight gap method, because I don't always shoot at the same target from the same place. I yank back, get a good site picture, and that's what I rely upon to aim my arrow. I sort of see the path the arrow might take in my mind, at certain distances this has become almost automatic. At times, when my arrow comes into my vision I just release and it hits. I think that my mind has picked up on some of my more frequent shots, and when the sight picture is recalled it's almost instinctive. I can't measure yardage extremely well, and I have found that my method works better for me. It does take a lot concentration, however, and I don't think I could compete with a fita archer past a certain point. I could probably do pretty well with my first two or three shots, however.
Title: Re: G. Fred Asbell..bending knees..Why?
Post by: Ron LaClair on February 08, 2005, 09:35:00 PM
Quote
I have seen people take Asbel's method way too seriously and as a result, have no hope in harvesting any game animal humanely or shooting consistently.  
I don't believe that for a minute. That's like saying if you shoot three fingers under you have no hope in harvesting any game animal humanely or shooting consistently. Or if you cant your bow, or close one eye....

Any shooting style is worthwhile if it improves your shooting. Any style you try you'd better take it seriously...a hap hazard effort just won't cut it. Give it a fair chance then if it's not for you ,..move on to something else.

Asbel's style is nothing new. Many people, hunters mostly have been shooting a bow very similar to that way for at least a few hundred years.

Have you ever seen the hunters in New Guinea shoot monkeys out of the tops of tall trees using a pinch type grip on the string, using cane arrows as long as the bow. They don't anchor and they don't hold, but they sure are successful in harvesting game.
Title: Re: G. Fred Asbell..bending knees..Why?
Post by: Shawn Leonard on February 08, 2005, 09:48:00 PM
Like Ron said, no hope!! Bull!!! I have seen guys who have lousy form and walk like a gorilla, but kill game consistently and shoot consistently, "no method is better than another, just different" that's all. Shawn
Title: Re: G. Fred Asbell..bending knees..Why?
Post by: southpawshooter on February 08, 2005, 10:09:00 PM
I agree with Ron LaClair.  I have both of Mr. Asbell's books and can understand where some misunderstanding could enusue.  The pictures and text do exagerrate the 'bend and hunch', but I believe this is for illustration purposes only.  I have seen Mr. Asbell shoot and he in no way bends as much as in the photos. Sometimes in an effort to get across an idea in print exaggeration is necessary.  Just do not take it so literally and the style will make sense.

Everyone is built differently, and one style from one person may not fit you.  If you take some points from each instructor that make sense and fit you, then you will have your own individual style.  Archery in this respect is no different than other artforms.  A close parallel is music -  good musicians take bits and pieces from each of their mentors or influences and meld these into their own unique and individual musical style.
Title: Re: G. Fred Asbell..bending knees..Why?
Post by: Archer 1 on February 08, 2005, 11:23:00 PM
I agree with Ron 100%, you have to do what works for you. I was going though a 3 D shoot a few years ago, with a bunch of guys, one of them was a instructor helping a new guy to the sport. The new fella watched me shoot, and said to the instructor, "He isn't shooting the way you said I should." The guy told him,"Don't pay any mind to the way he is shooting, He's got lousy form, but he can outshoot anyone here. What works for him, probably won't work for you." Once you find what works for you, stick with it.
Title: Re: G. Fred Asbell..bending knees..Why?
Post by: Rod Parsons on February 09, 2005, 04:03:00 AM
I reckon there's a lot more folks that shoot a little bit of this method, a little bit of that method than there are 100% pure gap or 100% instinctive.
I've also met folks that have to know the distance and folks that absolutely don't want to put a figure too it.
Being able to do it is more important than what you call it.
The best practice is probably to take single shots from different situations and distances, rather than shooting groups, but with this exception.
I firmly believe that some time spent learning to shoot tighter groups beyond your comfortable distance can pay off by tightening up your shooting in general.
Distance after all will amplify your errors and make them more evident.
I also place value on practising form and rhythm on a bare boss from time to time, separating issues of form from those of hitting, before bringing them together again.
Bare boss is kind of like meditating, where you can embed some good body memory to build your core form without distraction.
Then take it stump shooting.
You can also practice concentration and how you look at something whenever you have a moment, you don't even need a bow in your hand.
Whatever you choose to do, it is an ongoing process where perfection is the hoped for destination, but the more you travel the more you realise that it is the journey itself that has value.
Rod.
Title: Re: G. Fred Asbell..bending knees..Why?
Post by: Rod Parsons on February 09, 2005, 04:24:00 AM
Shawn,
This may seem like hair splitting, but I would suggest that there is a distinction between "seeing" your point in your field of vision as opposed to "looking directly at it."
My experience leads me to suspect that your better shots might result from being aware your point in your field of vision but whilst looking at the mark.
I often say to onlookers and participants that the arrow will most often go where you are looking, the real knack is in learning how to look properly when you shoot.
Rod.
Title: Re: G. Fred Asbell..bending knees..Why?
Post by: Reiver on February 09, 2005, 08:23:00 AM
Since you asked, Thunderbow, I practice probably every other day. I have a track set up in my back yard that allows me to shoot fifteen yards. I usually only use this for form or to work on keeping my bow arm pushing towards the target. Depending on the weather, I go out to my cousin's in South Dakota (I live in Iowa), he has 250 acres on the Missour river, and I go roving. My problem with shooting lots of arrows at the same target is that I quit paying attention to what I'm doing after awhile. I start thinking about work, or my girlfriend, or what I have to do later in the day, etc. When I work on form, on my track in the back yard, I usually pick a spot on the bag, shoot one arrow, retrieve it. It allows me to keep myself focussed for a little while longer.  I've found that for me, it's just better if I only practice for as long as I keep my mind on the task at hand. After that, I believe that continuing actually harms my overall performance. I'm not an expert or even a good archer, but if you've got any tips on maintaining focus on the same target for more than three to six shots, I'de be more than happy to listen.   :)  I'm like a waiter at the Hard Rock Cafe, tips are always welcome!
Title: Re: G. Fred Asbell..bending knees..Why?
Post by: Ray Lyon on February 09, 2005, 08:36:00 AM
Hmmmm, I'm going to go out on a limb a little bit here and disagree about roving being the best practice.

 I think the better form of practice is shooting a 3-D course at unknown distances. I realize the unknown distance part is significant portion of the "roving" aspect, however when I hear of guys going "roving" through the woods (and I used to do it quite a bit), it was typically picking out small targets, often with a unique feature that draws your concentration. "Let's shoot that red leaf over there. Let's see who's closest to the black spot on that stump. Let's see who can hit that little clump of grass accross the gully." Aim small, hit small comes to mind. Yet when that deer walks in front of you, it doesn't have that little aiming spot to concentrate on. When you walk through a 3-D course at unknown distances, you have to work on both distance estimation and concetrating on picking a spot on a large target that may not have any unique "aiming" points; just like the real thing.

Anyway, I think that roving is very good practice. I'm just saying I don't feel it's the "best" for the above reason.
Title: Re: G. Fred Asbell..bending knees..Why?
Post by: Shawn Leonard on February 09, 2005, 08:43:00 AM
Ray, deer do have that little spot for me. It is the crease where the upper leg joint(second elbow?) meets the body, pretty easy to pick out. 3-D targets are good as long as you do not shoot for score, but a true killing shot. The vitals on most of them are placed lousy. Shawn
Title: Re: G. Fred Asbell..bending knees..Why?
Post by: Ray Lyon on February 09, 2005, 10:08:00 AM
Shawn, my first deer was shot using that crease as an aiming point. Fortunately she was broadside and low elevation, so this was a good angle. Do you aim there for treestand shots quartering away? I like the 3-D courses with the elevated platforms (and usually there are two targets at different ranges and positions so you only climb the steps once) so that I can practice different entry/aiming points. I totally agree that shooting for score on some of the 3-D targets is not the best guage of a killing shot on the real thing. Often times there is some "spirited" debate with my buddies and I on certain shots during our trips through the 3-D course!  ;)  

Of course there is always discussion about shot placement at the Shrewhaven Lodge buck pole each fall, since there is usually 6-10 deer hanging on the pole, we get to talk about shot placement and how far a deer went, ect.
Title: Re: G. Fred Asbell..bending knees..Why?
Post by: Bible5 on February 09, 2005, 03:39:00 PM
Wow ! FIVE pages!  Anyways I liked the video "Instinctive Shooting" by Asbell. It's well done, alot of it like he's teaching a class to three guys. He seems like a really nice guy. He's got a really cool Teepee in his yard that my daughter thought was soo cool. The video is $30 from from 3Rivers and I really can't recomend it for that amount of money. Personaly I keep returning to Paul Brunners video on Instinctive Shooting. I found it the most helpful and resonably priced, it helped me alot. I just wish he would make a new updated and expanded version.
Title: Re: G. Fred Asbell..bending knees..Why?
Post by: Rod Parsons on February 09, 2005, 04:20:00 PM
I think it was Gary Player who went on record as saying "The more I practice the luckier I get " when a spectator commented that he had made a lucky shot.
Sure, find what works for you and stick with it, but be prepared to take it out and polish it from time to time. You might even want to learn how to fix it if it get's broke, but this can be dangerous territory.
Some folks get so hung up on fixing it that they keep on fiddling with it when it ain't broke and even sometimes excuse their own shortcomings by claiming that it needs fixing when there ain't much wrong with it.
Then again, it's only human nature to look out for a better one, even when the one you got works fine...
Rod.  :-)
Title: Re: G. Fred Asbell..bending knees..Why?
Post by: SteveMcD on February 09, 2005, 09:02:00 PM
Man.. I really enjoyed reading this thread. It is great! I do agree with what Tom L. states all along. You must find what works for you! This is what makes trad archery so personal. There are the basics with everyone's own certain uniqueness regarding form. I too, don't understand why G. Fred gets such a rap all the time. His advice has helped many folk along the way. I don't bend at the knees - can't. But I do hold to anchor as Fred would and has adviced. Forgive me, but I am a point of aim shooter, but that doesn't mean I do everything that Byron Ferguson says either. We all have to try, experiment and practice form and adapt to what works best for us individually. If I tried to shoot 100% the way a certain writer says.. this is how it's done.. I would have been driven to unstringing my bow and using it as a javelin long ago!!!!!!! Thanks everyone.. great thread. Enjoyed everyone's insights.
Title: Re: G. Fred Asbell..bending knees..Why?
Post by: Rod Parsons on February 09, 2005, 09:22:00 PM
Some years ago I was trying to teach a right handed archer to line up his shot a little better and at some point asked him to close his left eye.
I asked him what exactly he could then see. "Bugger all!" he replied.
When I enquired why this was so, he smiled and took out his glass right eye.
Talk about the teacher taught...
Rod :-)