Trad Gang

Topic Archives => Shooting => Topic started by: Greg Skinner on February 24, 2004, 12:39:00 AM

Title: form questions and problems
Post by: Greg Skinner on February 24, 2004, 12:39:00 AM
OK, I recently got a new Adcock ACS, 58" 50#@27" to add to my collection of longbows.  It shoots very smoothly and easily, and maybe that's what called my attention to my form or lack thereof.  Then I read the threads on form pictures that Lance started and had my wife video while I shot so I could analyze what I was doing wrong.  I obviously have been holding my right elbow way too high, but the rest of my form does not look so bad.  The real problem is that my shots go consistently about 6 inches above where I am looking.  I did some bare shaft testing with some new vapor-maxx 3000's and feel I was shooting consistently enough to get the arrow length and point weight right for the spine for my bow.  The problem is that I am having a terrible time trying to figure out how to drop my string arm elbow so that it comes into alignment with the bow arm, arrow etc.  I've tried everything I can think of.  When I draw back to anchor it looks pretty good, but when I settle in and try to push with my bow arm and squeeze my shoulder blades for back tension my elbow raises completely out of position.  It seems to me that that might be related to why the arrows are hitting high.  The other thing I have noticed is that when I release, the lower limb of my bow tilts noticeably back toward me. So, my question is, is there some easy way to get by drawing elbow down, and is that what is causing my shots to go consistently high?  I struggled with snap shooting and subsequently target panic for quite a few years but feel that I have come to grips with that and am now able to hold at a comfortable full draw and release when I want to.  Now the problem seems to be that my form is lacking. Any suggestions are welcome.
Title: Re: form questions and problems
Post by: Tracy McQueen on February 24, 2004, 01:54:00 AM
Tell ya what Greg, I know form is very important to some folks. But for myself, the more I try to think about what I'm doing when I'm shooting, the worse I get. Just pull it back and let 'er fly.

If it feels comfortable to you and you are hitting pretty good, don't sweat the small stuff brother. Like anything else you do, consistancy comes with lots of practice, and the right equipment.

I believe that, for me at least, the shot just has to happen. I have no idea whether or not my form is "correct" and frankly don't care. Could I shoot better if I adjusted a few things? Maybe, maybe not. Guess I'll never know.

Worrying about things like that is what got me back to shooting trad. after a 20 year trist with a compound bow.

I 'aint trying out for the olympics, and I don't shoot tournaments anymore. I can pretty well hit what I'm shooting at, I know what arrows I need to be using, and that's pretty much all I care about.

Perhaps it IS important to you. If so, I'm not knocking you or any of those folks who work hard at it and I admire your determination.

I just want to enjoy shooting my way I suppose and not worry if my elbow is too high or whatever. If it 'aint fun, why would I want to do it?

Of course all this is just MHO and your mileage may vary  :D
Title: Re: form questions and problems
Post by: AkDan on February 24, 2004, 02:39:00 AM
I think the difference is you shouldnt be practicing accuracy when you are working on form.  Do one or the other, not both at once.  I agree shooting targets/game should come natural.  But without some kind of basic form consistency, accuracy will be tough, throw in the factor of trying to start out instinctive as most of have, and its easy to understand the good days and bad days and hoping the good outweighs the bad attitude.  Usually the bad starts to creep up on ya and next thing ya know you're diseased with TP.
Title: Re: form questions and problems
Post by: Tracy McQueen on February 24, 2004, 04:02:00 AM
Let me qualify my previous remarks. There does have to be consistancy in practice shooting; specifically I mean draw, anchor, and stance. If you are holding that bow the same way every time you draw it, the consistancy of your shot placement will come with repetition.
Title: Re: form questions and problems
Post by: Danny Rowan on February 24, 2004, 04:47:00 AM

If your other bows are different from the ACS it will take some practice for you computer to adjust. By different I mean if they are of heavier weight, slight r/d or straight limbed. All bows shoot different and it takes time for the brain to know where to hold when a different style bow is thrown in. JMHO

Title: Re: form questions and problems
Post by: ber643 on February 24, 2004, 06:33:00 AM
FWIW - I recently got my ACS (a lot lighter than yours) and I also seem to be shooting higher in general with it  - even out further. However I know my form is better now than before, as I made some needed changes just about the same time I got the ACS. My point is the two things may not be connected. It is possible, like was said, that the high is just our "Computers" getting accustomed to the new bow(s). Work on your form - then when you tune and/or get the form locked in pretty good work on accuracy (while using good form) - seems to be the consensus of the way to go from what I've read and been told by those I respect. Just my take on things. Good shooting and good luck - hope you enjoy your ACS as much as I do mine.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: form questions and problems
Post by: Jim/LI on February 24, 2004, 07:22:00 AM
Most target archer I have watched or seen pictures of have a high elbow position for the drawing arm.  Styles vary somewhat but it is common to see the elbow point upwards at a very high angle.  You elbow position may not be related to the other issues: shooting high and the bow coming back at you after the release.  I would bareshaft to check the nock height.  If the nock height is way too high it might account for both issues.  If the nock position is correct and your bareshafts hit the target level and at the same height at fletched arrows, then the problem may be with the tiller of the bow.  There is a reason that target bows have adjustable limbs.  Everyone's anatomy and form is a bit different.  You may want to contact OL Adcock about having the bow's tiller adjusted to fit you.  I would not do this unless I was confident that my form was consistent and until I had shot the bow for a while.
Title: Re: form questions and problems
Post by: FLHunter on February 24, 2004, 07:47:00 AM

You are getting a lot of advice here.  IMHO without seeing you shoot its all subjective.  Your form maybe fine or it may need some help.

My advice would be to find someone thats qualified to critique your form.  Not everyone is built the same so there will be some differences in form between archers.  However, if you take a close look at pictures of good shooters there are more similairities in their form than not.  

Changing ones form takes a while, it does not occur overnite.  It takes a while to form new habits and to break the old ones.  

Again get some good qualified help, if it is an issue for you.  Good coaching will put you on the proper road much quicker avoiding a lot of grief.

Good shooting!
Title: Re: form questions and problems
Post by: ber643 on February 24, 2004, 08:34:00 AM
Don't believe anyone could argue that point (FLHunter's) - when/if it's possible. Wish I had one to count on.
Title: Re: form questions and problems
Post by: Greg Skinner on February 24, 2004, 11:11:00 AM
I appreciate all your responses and will certainly factor them in as I continue shooting.  I vacillate between just going out and "shooting for fun" and getting so serious that I think I want to compete.  I agree that a hobby ought to be fun, but part of the fun is being able to hit what we want when we want to, too.  I think I will take your advice and relax a little concerning the form thing, because I have refined my form quite a bit and generally shoot pretty consistently.  My nock point is 1/2" above square, now, and the bare shafts group pretty well with the fletched ones.  I did play around with the nock point some when I first got the bow and I think I'm close with it.  Again, thanks for your comments.
Title: Re: form questions and problems
Post by: kybowhntr on February 24, 2004, 11:26:00 AM
Greg, don't know about the high elbow but hitting high may be attributed to difference in bow performance and the ol' computer will adjust for that.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: form questions and problems
Post by: Terry Green on February 24, 2004, 11:34:00 AM

Don't change bows and form at the same time   "[dntthnk]"  

One thing I stressed in that thread was that everyone is structured a little different, and that the elbow could be as high as 10:OO. And that if you are higher than that, you may have problems.


You mean there are people that shoot trad bows and don't have fun?....Oh the HORROR!!  :D
Title: Re: form questions and problems
Post by: kybowhntr on February 24, 2004, 11:50:00 AM
Terry, Heck....guaranteeeeed I'm havein fun. Can't hit a bull in tha @##, bones poppin every time I pull the string, arrows floppin in the wind, bow arm draggin the ground after the shot, slap myself in the mouth every minute of it and would be lost without it.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: form questions and problems
Post by: ber643 on February 24, 2004, 12:28:00 PM
Terry, now you tell me about not changing bow and form at same time - LOL. Naw, I knew it but I didn't have much choice - well, yeah, I did but no way was I gonna wait to shoot the ACS and didn't want to wait to make the changes in form - so I figure it's like starting from squar one, only with more info -ha-ha.