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Topic Archives => Classics => Topic started by: Ghost Dog on January 11, 2007, 12:43:00 PM

Title: Actionboo-vs-bamboo-vs-yew. Interesting.
Post by: Ghost Dog on January 11, 2007, 12:43:00 PM
I was talking with a well known bowyer a few nights ago; someone who makes a very fine line of handcrafted longbows. Like so many bowyers he offers bamboo flooring (plyboo, lamboo, actionboo) as a core material, along with yew.

During our conversation he mentioned to me that he had noticed that straight grained yew used as a core material was producing faster arrow flight in his bows, all things being equal. I found this really interesting, as actionboo is such a popular choice these days.

I own several bows from this particular bowyer. All of them are the same length, two have natural bamboo cores, two have actionboo cores and two have yew cores. All are within two pounds of each other and all have the same string materials.

I do not own a chrono, so this is not meant to be a conclusive test, but I do have a couple of arrows that make a screaming sound when they reach speeds of 170 fps, or greater. I am sure that you know what I mean by this.

The upshot is this; the yew cores are faster by quite a bit, even when some of the bamboo cored bows had a heavier draw weight than the yew cored bows. Aside from the arrow report, I can see the difference too. There is also no noticeable difference in "hand shock" either, which might be expected to be less with the lighter bamboo cores.

Now I am not an arrow speed guy in the least. I am most at home with a fine selfbow as many of you know, and speed is not a selfbow issue as much as it is with glass laminated bows. I just thought that this was an interesting discovery on the part of my friend the bowyer, which my own small time test seems to agree with.

Now what does any of this mean? Maybe it means that in a good bow design a wood core is just as good, and maybe better, than a bamboo/actionboo core, but with so many variables in bow designs, a real conclusion would require real tests, as much as the screaming arrow test appeals to me.    :)
Title: Re: Actionboo-vs-bamboo-vs-yew. Interesting.
Post by: LBR on January 11, 2007, 12:53:00 PM
You and your bowyer aren't the only ones that have come to that conclusion Ghost.  Chek-Mate doesn't offer bamboo cores because, in their designs at least, they didn't find any reason to use bamboo over yew.  Also, bamboo is more expensive for them to get, more labor intensive, and the nodes can be a weak point.

I agree that bow design can play a part also.  Marc (the bowyer) plans to keep experimenting, but to date they still don't offer bamboo limbs.

Chad
Title: Re: Actionboo-vs-bamboo-vs-yew. Interesting.
Post by: Pete W on January 11, 2007, 01:02:00 PM
Interesting.
 Are all risers the same length?
 Are the only diferences in the limbs the core material or are there other diferent woods/veneers in them?
 Are they all the same model and with the same amount of reflex/deflex?
Is the nock fit the same on all of the strings?Have you tried using the same string on each bow so nock fit and string weights will not be diferent?
Title: Re: Actionboo-vs-bamboo-vs-yew. Interesting.
Post by: Ghost Dog on January 11, 2007, 01:17:00 PM
Hey Pete,

Are all risers the same length?------Yes.

Are the only diferences in the limbs the core material or are there other diferent woods/veneers in them?------All have veneers.

Are they all the same model and with the same amount of reflex/deflex?------Exactly the same.

Is the nock fit the same on all of the strings?------ Yes.

Have you tried using the same string on each bow so nock fit and string weights will not be diferent?-------Yes.
Title: Re: Actionboo-vs-bamboo-vs-yew. Interesting.
Post by: Pasty Face on January 11, 2007, 01:19:00 PM
That is interesting. I dont know much about building bows but I thought Bamboo was the perfect limb wood, strong and light.

Cool
Title: Re: Actionboo-vs-bamboo-vs-yew. Interesting.
Post by: Pasty Face on January 11, 2007, 01:20:00 PM
I anyone wants me to take their slow Boo bows off there hand just send them to ........
Title: Re: Actionboo-vs-bamboo-vs-yew. Interesting.
Post by: Plywood Bender at Work on January 11, 2007, 01:30:00 PM
"Like so many bowyers he offers bamboo flooring (plyboo, lamboo, actionboo) as a core material, along with yew."

I believe this.  I also believe you would have similiar results with red cedar, black walnut and other light hard woods.  I think the laminated bamboo might be slightly tougher in the long run.  Now, did you try a bow with bamboo that wasn't laminated?  I think much of the benefit of bamboo, light vs strength, is lost when you add back in the weight of all those glue lines.

BTW- to date the best shooting LB I've made has black walnut limbs and running a close second is one with red cedar.

That's my opinion, your mileage may vary.

Carl
Title: Re: Actionboo-vs-bamboo-vs-yew. Interesting.
Post by: Lefty on January 11, 2007, 02:22:00 PM
Bob
Does yew have the smooth draw feel that bamboo or actionboo does?  I never shot a yew core bow before, but really like the feel of bamboo in the limbs.
Chris
Title: Re: Actionboo-vs-bamboo-vs-yew. Interesting.
Post by: Dalebow on January 11, 2007, 02:45:00 PM
I have had and have several yew bows and even had a bowyer build his first bow with yew as a core because I asked for it, he remarked how "snappy" it was and how it impressed him.  I think Yew makes a great limb wood, you can use less laminations when your whole limb is one wood and it is beautiful.  The fox breed Iam getting ready to order will have all yew in the limbs.

I have several yew limbed bows and boo cored bows and think they do pull smoother than boo and boo is pretty darn smooth!!  One exception is an Adcock and that is because that design is pretty perfect, I think OL could use plywood and get a great limb
Dale
Title: Re: Actionboo-vs-bamboo-vs-yew. Interesting.
Post by: Ghost Dog on January 11, 2007, 03:38:00 PM
Plywood Bender, two of the bows in my test were natural bamboo.

Lefty, I think a smooth draw is based on many different factors, one of which is expectation, if you get my meaning. Bow design will always be the biggest factor contributing smoothness of draw, coupled with a draw weight that one is conditioned to.
Title: Re: Actionboo-vs-bamboo-vs-yew. Interesting.
Post by: James Wrenn on January 11, 2007, 05:58:00 PM
I have never used yew because that stuff will kill ya.  :)  I am another however that has never been sold on bamboo.I seldom use it any more in anything I build and would never use it in a recurve.If I was having a bow built I would not pay extra to get it in most bows. jmo
Title: Re: Actionboo-vs-bamboo-vs-yew. Interesting.
Post by: Crooked Stic on January 11, 2007, 07:02:00 PM
I think the yew ranks right up there at the top. Not sure why. May have something to do with elasticity. Like Dalebow sez it hard to beat the smoothness of actionboo.
Title: Re: Actionboo-vs-bamboo-vs-yew. Interesting.
Post by: Keith Deters on January 11, 2007, 07:14:00 PM
Bamboo flooring is not light in physical weight. To make a bow with similar draw weight, you have to use more of it because it's weak.  This adds to the physical weight of your bow's limbs.  It has the SG of average red oak.  As far as I'm concerned, it's best used as a floor.

My comments are about using it in bamboo backed bows. I don't know why anyone uses it.  It takes so much set that just about any domestic hardwood will work better.  I think many new bowyers like it because it's hard to break.  It will make a bow, but so will many other woods, with much better results. IMO.
Title: Re: Actionboo-vs-bamboo-vs-yew. Interesting.
Post by: LBR on January 11, 2007, 07:20:00 PM
Pete, Chek-Mate has been in the bow building business for about 35 years, Marc has personally built well over 10,000 bows, so I trust their test results.  The results could possibly be different if they designed a bow specifically around bamboo limbs, but I really don't think it would make much if any differece.

I agree with Ghost on the smooth draw--going by feel isn't always accurate, especially if you are "testing" your favorite against one you haven't shot.  The scale tells the tale.  When I scaled my personal yew-limbed longbow (66@30.5), it gained a consistent 2.5 pounds per inch out to my draw length.  Didn't think to check any further.

I'm not a bowyer and don't pretend to be, but I have talked to several.  Seems opinions differ about as much as when you ask a group of archers "what is the best bow".  Some really liked bamboo, some are indifferent to it, some don't use it.

Based on my personal experience, I'm sticking to yew limbs for my longbows.

Chad
Title: Re: Actionboo-vs-bamboo-vs-yew. Interesting.
Post by: Walt Francis on January 11, 2007, 07:46:00 PM
I believe Jay Massey related the same findings between yew and boo in his book The Bowyers Craft.  The exception might of been tonkin cane which was almost equal to the yew.  As with most woods, there is a difference in cane types.  These findings only pertained to longbow designs, not recurves.  I have a meeting this evening but will look it up and verify those finding in the morning.

Walt Francis
Title: Re: Actionboo-vs-bamboo-vs-yew. Interesting.
Post by: highnoonhunter on January 11, 2007, 11:20:00 PM
Hmmmmm,

This makes me feel good about having a yew limbed bow on order!

hnh
Title: Re: Actionboo-vs-bamboo-vs-yew. Interesting.
Post by: Chortdraw on January 11, 2007, 11:39:00 PM
I am in the process of getting 56" longbow ready for the test shot this weekend. It has action-boo core and tonkin bamboo under clear glass and a 13' riser. First one I have built with these materials. Riser is curley bubinga. Can't wait to try it out. Have a 54" with bocote and action- core to sort of compare limb action. Have never tried Yew on a bow either.
Chort
Title: Re: Actionboo-vs-bamboo-vs-yew. Interesting.
Post by: longbow357 on January 12, 2007, 04:32:00 AM
i'd love to hear more on this from more of the great bowyers we have here on the site.

i have always heard conflicting reports on bamboo from bowyers. since i'm considering which limb corewood to get in my RER vortex, this makes it even more interesting.
Title: Re: Actionboo-vs-bamboo-vs-yew. Interesting.
Post by: john gerrard on January 12, 2007, 07:47:00 AM
I'm surprised that no one has mentioned osage as a limb core. I always thought that it was supposed to be right on par with yew. Any comments? Brokenwing
Title: Re: Actionboo-vs-bamboo-vs-yew. Interesting.
Post by: Walt Francis on January 12, 2007, 09:56:00 AM
John,
Osage is a more dense/heavier wood, then either yew or bamboo, making it a little bit slower when used in traditional longbow designs.  When Osage is used in recurve bows its added strength and thinner veneers make it more desirable.

Walt Francis
Title: Re: Actionboo-vs-bamboo-vs-yew. Interesting.
Post by: Steve H. on January 12, 2007, 11:32:00 AM
"...straight grained yew used as a core material was producing faster arrow flight"

I too believe this.  Osage can be a bit "doggy" in a lam bow.
Title: Re: Actionboo-vs-bamboo-vs-yew. Interesting.
Post by: Ghost Dog on January 12, 2007, 12:48:00 PM
I think there may be other woods, or combinations of woods with bamboo, that produce exceptional limb performance.

I have a few Dwyer longbows with different core woods/bamboo, and one of the best performing combination out of them all is a two lamination core of sasafrass with two outer lams of cedar. The limbs are light in mass and recover from full draw with a vengence! I also have a Deathwish longbow with a tonkin cane core, with two outer lams of yew that is a sweetheart too.

Of course is is important to ask just how fast your arrow really needs to go. Speed is not a good substitute for talent.  "[dntthnk]"
Title: Re: Actionboo-vs-bamboo-vs-yew. Interesting.
Post by: john gerrard on January 12, 2007, 05:03:00 PM
Walt thank you for the reply on osage. Ghost Sasafrass was my next question. I have a Ancient Spirits Sequoia with "frass" outer lams and boo core. When I ordered it I told Tracy to just make me a good looking fast bow. That is exactly what he did. Not only is the sasafrass a good limb wood but the sasafrass he used in my limbs is beautiful the bow pulls smooth as butter and spits an arrow. Brokenwing
Title: Re: Actionboo-vs-bamboo-vs-yew. Interesting.
Post by: Mike Burch on January 12, 2007, 08:51:00 PM
ttt.
Title: Re: Actionboo-vs-bamboo-vs-yew. Interesting.
Post by: Terry Green on January 13, 2007, 11:37:00 AM
Interesting...looks like there might be a run on yew now.    :D
Title: Re: Actionboo-vs-bamboo-vs-yew. Interesting.
Post by: Dalebow on January 13, 2007, 12:28:00 PM
I ordered a Fox breed cocobolo riser with yew limbs and asked Ron should I do a core and he said nope, now when a guy turns down more $$ you know he is being honest:-)
Title: Re: Actionboo-vs-bamboo-vs-yew. Interesting.
Post by: Redfeathers on January 13, 2007, 06:31:00 PM
UP!!!
Title: Re: Actionboo-vs-bamboo-vs-yew. Interesting.
Post by: Ghost Dog on January 13, 2007, 07:33:00 PM
There is something imporatant that I want to add to my original post.

There are other natural woods that perform well as limb cores other than yew, and as I metioned, some woods with bamboo, and some woods with other woods, make for great performing limbs. Of course limb design will always be a deciding factor, but having said that, the right limb core with the right limb design can make for surprising performance.
Title: Re: Actionboo-vs-bamboo-vs-yew. Interesting.
Post by: devildog66 on January 13, 2007, 10:18:00 PM
Would not the true test of core material then be in a bow not backed by glass or carbon since those materials have so much influence on the limb speed/recovery?  By the by, my latest bow being delivered as I write is a lamboo core with yew veneers with glass back and belly of course...

DD
Title: Re: Actionboo-vs-bamboo-vs-yew. Interesting.
Post by: Otto on January 13, 2007, 10:36:00 PM
The engineer in my screams to know just how significant a speed difference you're talking about, and even more intersting to me is the question, is what you've observed even statistically significant?  I mean your statement of the yew cores being faster by "quite a bit" is entirely subjective w/o a crono reading.  You are correct in that a real test is required.  Frankly, I'd be shocked if the same bows with the same limb design had anything more than 3-5 fps difference in speed using all of the various limb cores you mentioned.  The engineer in me says 3-5 fps diff on a bow shooting 170 fps isn't significant.  As you stated, until you put a crono reading on what you've observed, how valid can all this conjecture be????
Title: Re: Actionboo-vs-bamboo-vs-yew. Interesting.
Post by: Ghost Dog on January 14, 2007, 12:25:00 PM
Otto, my post was designed to raise a question based on my personal experience. 3-4 fps difference would not be an important gain, you are right; that could be gained by a better release or a different string material. I was only meaning to imply that a good wood core can produce impressive performance, and that in some limb designs may surpass bamboo/plyboo.
Title: Re: Actionboo-vs-bamboo-vs-yew. Interesting.
Post by: Kids Pastor on January 15, 2007, 01:42:00 PM
My first longbow had yew limbs and it was a sweet-heart. I have had many others after with bamboo, red elm, and action wood, but I always go back to yew.

I know that the bow design has more to do with it (smoothness & speed) than limb wood, especially with a glass bow.

So, my un-scientific results would be that I am a yew man:)
Title: Re: Actionboo-vs-bamboo-vs-yew. Interesting.
Post by: Gator1 on September 12, 2007, 12:12:00 PM
Would like to revive this post...

Have a bow to pick out in the next few months, any one lately, have a Yew Core, or Sasafrass core built?

If so, any feedback on either??
Title: Re: Actionboo-vs-bamboo-vs-yew. Interesting.
Post by: BamBooBender on September 12, 2007, 12:54:00 PM
I'm still of the mind that the glass is doing 99.99% of the work anyway, except maybe when it comes to deep cored longbows like Hills, so(apart from looks) the wood/boo in between can only help by not hindering the glass.In other words be as light as possible.

 I mean if you can leave a recurve strung for umpteen years and not lose any performance or draw weight, or at least any measurable amount, how then can the wood be doing any significant part of the work? jmho
Title: Re: Actionboo-vs-bamboo-vs-yew. Interesting.
Post by: BobW on September 12, 2007, 01:24:00 PM
Makes me sooooo happy that I have yew limbs on my Crusader.  Once again Chad, you did me good!  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Actionboo-vs-bamboo-vs-yew. Interesting.
Post by: O.L. Adcock on September 12, 2007, 01:29:00 PM
Otto, You are asking the right questions and I read a lot of speculation and old wives tales in this thread.

Bob, that 3-4 fps is an inch of draw length, maybe that's not noticeable to some??

95% of a bows performance has everything to do with design and nothing to do with materials.

I have no doubt Yew is lighter on average then bamboo. But "light" is NOT what you are looking for. You are looking for the most stiffness for it's mass. Heavier is OK as long as it's also stiffer.

We tested "natural" bamboo one time and found the laminations you'll get from various sources will vary over 100% in mass weight alone, not counting stiffness. I was of the opinion nothing was better then bamboo and felt like a 3 year old that was told there was no Santa for 2 weeks! :)Actionboo will be stiffer and lighter then 80% of the bamboo you'll find, the other 20% better. Unless you measure and cull out 80% of it, the law of averages means you arbitrarily build some very good ones and some very bad ones selecting laminations at random. I have no idea about yew but if it's like other woods, the same or larger variations will exist. Those testing a bow here and there may well be compareing "good" yew to "bad" bamboo and vice versa without even knowing it and drawing wrong conclusions from it. Unless tested on the same riser, that will throw in a 4-5% variation in itself. Casual observations lead to wrong conclusions that can last for centuries, like the world is flat and everything revolves around the earth..Just casual observations!  :) ....O.L.
Title: Re: Actionboo-vs-bamboo-vs-yew. Interesting.
Post by: M60gunner on September 12, 2007, 01:29:00 PM
I have also read the glass does most of the work and being a person that left a Bear SK strung for a year I agree. But I also agree without a speed machine we can not judge just by sight or where an arrow impacts on the target which is faster.
Title: Re: Actionboo-vs-bamboo-vs-yew. Interesting.
Post by: cvarcher on September 12, 2007, 01:35:00 PM
Seems to me Mr. Hill did a lifetimes worth of checking all the woods he could try.Since he dedicated his life to longbows in particular and had the success he did I trust his judgement before anyone elses . He first shot exclusively self yew bows and loved them except for the fact they werent durable and broke.That was a critical thing for him being miles out there.He settled on Bamboo particularly Japanese tonkin as the next best choice. So maybe it took a second seat to yew in speed but it made up for it in durable strength. And Hill never being low in weight had plenty of power no matter what wood was satisifed. Then the Fiberglass came out and he loved the increased performance.Too bad he isnt around to settle alot of arguments.
Title: Re: Actionboo-vs-bamboo-vs-yew. Interesting.
Post by: O.L. Adcock on September 12, 2007, 02:19:00 PM
cvarcher, That's a very good example of the design being more important then the materials. Glass and Tonkin, Hill style compared to a glass and Tonkin recurve or good D/R....The Hill will have to be 100# to match the other at 70#!  :) ....O.L.
Title: Re: Actionboo-vs-bamboo-vs-yew. Interesting.
Post by: ChuckC on September 12, 2007, 02:19:00 PM
My (flooring boo) bow shoots fast enough to please me and bamboo is a very renewable resource. Yew is having its problems.  

This is not much of an issue in my book.  But...nobody but me reads my book.
ChuckC
Title: Re: Actionboo-vs-bamboo-vs-yew. Interesting.
Post by: vermonster13 on September 12, 2007, 02:29:00 PM
Yew is a great wood but can make for short lived bowyers if they aren't real careful working with it.
Title: Re: Actionboo-vs-bamboo-vs-yew. Interesting.
Post by: JohnV on September 12, 2007, 02:54:00 PM
What is interesting is that people want to jump to conclusions without anything other than "it sure seems faster" to go by.  To come to any real conclusions you would have to make several sets of limbs with each material in identical bow designs and draw weights and then shoot identical arrows through a chronograph.
Title: Re: Actionboo-vs-bamboo-vs-yew. Interesting.
Post by: Rick Wiltshire on July 04, 2008, 08:39:00 AM
TTT - I found this to be some interesting reading so I thought I would bring it up again.
Title: Re: Actionboo-vs-bamboo-vs-yew. Interesting.
Post by: Bert Frelink on July 04, 2008, 09:17:00 AM
Here we go again,
"I do not have a chrono so this test is by no means conclusive"
Excactly!!!!!
Design is the key, like O.L says.
Just my 0.02 c.
Regards, Bert
Title: Re: Actionboo-vs-bamboo-vs-yew. Interesting.
Post by: Hatrick on July 04, 2008, 11:27:00 AM
It was good to re-read O.L.'s post on this one as I believe he basically says it all.

"the law of averages means you arbitrarily build some very good ones and some very bad ones selecting laminations at random."

How many of you have shot 2 bows built with exactly the same design and same materials but one shot better than the other. This is why it's best to shoot the bow you're buying first.

One of my best shooting longbows has walnut lams. I also believe that maple actionwood which is never talked about anymore is underrated. It seems to me that maple was a standard bearer for years in older bows that still shoot well today.

Another O.L. quote to ponder.

"95% of a bows performance has everything to do with design and nothing to do with materials."
Title: Re: Actionboo-vs-bamboo-vs-yew. Interesting.
Post by: Jerry Jeffer on July 04, 2008, 02:11:00 PM
This  has been a great thought provoking thread. Thank you Ghost Dog for starting it. I have recently ordered a custom 70" bow that will have Yew limbs. I think I'll be very happy regardless .
Title: Re: Actionboo-vs-bamboo-vs-yew. Interesting.
Post by: Kevin L. on July 04, 2008, 03:47:00 PM
Hmmm.. maybe that's why my Wallace Mountain is so quick, for the light weight. It has 2 lams of yew for cores and then bamboo on the back and belly.

My next bow will probably be yew, I had a Hill Halfbreed that I foolishly traded, maybe I'll get a Redman next.
Title: Re: Actionboo-vs-bamboo-vs-yew. Interesting.
Post by: KentuckyTJ on July 04, 2008, 04:57:00 PM
I have a Blacktail recurve. Norm Johnson's bows come standard with Bamboo cores. He will make any kind of cores you desire but he told me the Bamboo is the way to go.

What would be neat is to see what kind of cores the top bowyers use and recommend.

Blacktails = Bamboo
Title: Re: Actionboo-vs-bamboo-vs-yew. Interesting.
Post by: Rick Wiltshire on July 04, 2008, 05:14:00 PM
With guys on board with both materials, it seems as though limbs of all bamboo, or all yew, or any combination of the two would be of equal performance?
Title: Re: Actionboo-vs-bamboo-vs-yew. Interesting.
Post by: Swamp Pygmy on July 04, 2008, 05:36:00 PM
Do any laminations seem to be more quiet than the others in glass lam bows?
Title: Re: Actionboo-vs-bamboo-vs-yew. Interesting.
Post by: Rob DiStefano on July 04, 2008, 05:59:00 PM
After a coupla hundred I totally lost count of all the stickbows I've either owned or shot over the decades.  IMO, no question for me that Tonkin cane has unparalleled smoothness of draw than any other natural limb material.  And I'll take the superior shootability of cane over any added arra speed of yew any day.  IMHO & YMMV.     :saywhat:
Title: Re: Actionboo-vs-bamboo-vs-yew. Interesting.
Post by: Jacko on July 04, 2008, 06:53:00 PM
I have a late 70's to early 80's 55# Bob Wilson Hill Longbow with Yew Laminations that is an unashamed exact copy of that era's Howard Hill Bows and its a pig of a bow to shoot. Another mate has a Hill bow yew lams same as we can see tiller thats sweet as to shoot

I wonder if this differance with Bamboo / Yew and hardwood laminations is due to the design characteristics of the bows being better suited to certain limb core materials or perhaps the quality of the yew .

 

regards Jacko
Title: Re: Actionboo-vs-bamboo-vs-yew. Interesting.
Post by: EASTERNARCHER on July 04, 2008, 08:59:00 PM
You guys started to scare me when I first read this thread...My Mojo Stik originally was ordered with Osage cores...I figured that would build a good bow. Nearly everyone responding to my announcement suggested(SUGGESTED) that Boo core would be the better choice. JD and I made the switch after some talk....He was indifferent about any signifigant performance difference, but wanted to try boo core in another 60"'er. to get some input so to speak.

I'm sure either would have been fine. So Boo it will be this time anyhow. I likely wouldn't see the diff. anyways!
Title: Re: Actionboo-vs-bamboo-vs-yew. Interesting.
Post by: DEATHMASTER on July 05, 2008, 12:03:00 AM
I have a mojo stick that has osage core and yew on the back and belly. That equals the best of both worlds.
DEATHMASTER
Title: Re: Actionboo-vs-bamboo-vs-yew. Interesting.
Post by: WidowEater on July 05, 2008, 12:58:00 AM
in theory i suppose deathmaster but is interesting you bring that up because i was going to ask the bowyers out there what the performance depneds on.  Is it the core material and only that or is it the combination of the core and veneers?  Or is it the fiberglass in a laminated bow?  Whichever it is is there some magic combination that would give the best performance as long as no one were to care about looks.

I bet no one would care about looks if there was a significant performance gain.  As long as it was still quiet at least.
Title: Re: Actionboo-vs-bamboo-vs-yew. Interesting.
Post by: SHOOTO8S on July 05, 2008, 01:33:00 AM
Interesting thread, considering of the documented highest performing bows out there, none use yew cores?
Title: Re: Actionboo-vs-bamboo-vs-yew. Interesting.
Post by: Danny Rowan on July 05, 2008, 03:32:00 AM
Bill Howland of Brackenbury bows custom makes all of his cores. He will tell you that walnut is an outstanding core as well as wenge and hickory. He vertically laminates his cores I have one with a combo of walnut and wenge and it is smooth as butter, my other has bamboo, cannot really tell a difference in them. Both are very smooth to my 29" draw and very fast.

Danny
Title: Re: Actionboo-vs-bamboo-vs-yew. Interesting.
Post by: James Wrenn on July 05, 2008, 07:30:00 AM
The biggest advantange from action boo and other lamintated cores for a bowyer is consistancy.It is easier to build bows and hit weight because the material is more consistant piece to piece than a lot of woods.That is one of the reasons action-wood has always been popular.Also one of the reasons maple has always been used so much in the past.When you go throwing a bunch of different exotic woods with different weights and varieing a bunch in stiffness into the mix it usually means a lot of sanding at times on the glass.Bottom line is pick whatever you want if you like the looks but the design of the bow and care the bowyer takes in tillering the bow is going to be the real reason a bow is smooth,shoots fast ect.There is no magic wood out there.The person building the bow has to supply that.  ;)  jmho
Title: Re: Actionboo-vs-bamboo-vs-yew. Interesting.
Post by: Hatrick on July 05, 2008, 10:22:00 AM
Very well stated, James.
Title: Re: Actionboo-vs-bamboo-vs-yew. Interesting.
Post by: EASTERNARCHER on July 05, 2008, 12:56:00 PM
Here-Here JAmes...well said! Accordingly, I've heard that boo is popular because it provides a smoother draw, also heard that as stated previously that most of the work is done by the glass anyway.
Title: Re: Actionboo-vs-bamboo-vs-yew. Interesting.
Post by: shantam on July 05, 2008, 01:52:00 PM
yes and no EASTERNARCHER,of course all of the tension and compression loads are for the glass.
but what is left to deal with are those shearloads.
thats the job for the limpcore and these loads are
huge in a glassbow,not to speak of a carbonbow.
damm my english sucks.

shantam
Title: Re: Actionboo-vs-bamboo-vs-yew. Interesting.
Post by: KentuckyTJ on July 05, 2008, 02:23:00 PM
No worries Shantam, it's much better than our German.
Title: Re: Actionboo-vs-bamboo-vs-yew. Interesting.
Post by: EASTERNARCHER on July 05, 2008, 03:07:00 PM
Yeah...Danka!
Title: Re: Actionboo-vs-bamboo-vs-yew. Interesting.
Post by: Jedimaster on July 05, 2008, 04:12:00 PM
Smoothest and fastest bow I own has Tonkin cane limbs under clear glass.  Subjectively as smooth and fast as foam limbs.  I have no experience with yew cores but never complained over actionwood and actionboo or maple.  The best to me has been tonkin.  Is actionboo a real product unto itself or just ground boo flooring?  I would have more confidence if it was manufactured for it's intended task than if it was designed for the bathroom floor - LOL.  My thought is that quality control should be stringent for consistency as boo growth supposedly affects the strength and elasticity.  Sounds like you could get a dog from a batch of boo that grew on the wrong side of the hill.
Title: Re: Actionboo-vs-bamboo-vs-yew. Interesting.
Post by: SlowBowinMO on July 05, 2008, 05:24:00 PM
The smoothest bow I've ever drawn had an actionwood core with actionboo lams under clear glass with no veneers.  Not very glamorous sounding but man it was sweet.  I didn't have a chance to chrono it though.
Title: Re: Actionboo-vs-bamboo-vs-yew. Interesting.
Post by: Rick Wiltshire on July 05, 2008, 07:02:00 PM
Just ordered a new Mowhawk takedown.  It will have a 2 lam core of tonkin with back and belly of yew.
Title: Re: Actionboo-vs-bamboo-vs-yew. Interesting.
Post by: Rob DiStefano on July 05, 2008, 07:19:00 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Rick Wiltshire:
Just ordered a new Mowhawk takedown.  It will have a 2 lam core of tonkin with back and belly of yew.
Always good to cover all bases!  :D
Title: Re: Actionboo-vs-bamboo-vs-yew. Interesting.
Post by: Rick Wiltshire on July 05, 2008, 07:28:00 PM
Rob,

That is what I figured.  I have one of Vinces one piece bows in all yew that looks and shoots great.  He still has some of the same yew he used on my last bow so I decided to mix it up this time and see what happens.

Rick
Title: Re: Actionboo-vs-bamboo-vs-yew. Interesting.
Post by: Rob DiStefano on July 05, 2008, 07:35:00 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Rick Wiltshire:
Rob,

That is what I figured.  I have one of Vinces one piece bows in all yew that looks and shoots great.  He still has some of the same yew he used on my last bow so I decided to mix it up this time and see what happens.

Rick
Way to go!     :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Actionboo-vs-bamboo-vs-yew. Interesting.
Post by: wingnut on July 05, 2008, 07:39:00 PM
I'll start by saying that I haven't tried the foam cores.c.c. . . yet.  To date I will put our Tonkin bamboo cores up against any and all for smoothness and speed.  Hard to beat Mother Natures best.

Mike
Title: Re: Actionboo-vs-bamboo-vs-yew. Interesting.
Post by: Ian johnson on July 05, 2008, 07:58:00 PM
the smoothest bow I ever shot was a longbow with tonkin bamboo cores with red elm veneers under clear glass
Title: Re: Actionboo-vs-bamboo-vs-yew. Interesting.
Post by: Jedimaster on July 05, 2008, 10:59:00 PM
I vouch for Mike's statement on their Tonkin boo limbs.  The bow I referenced as the fastest/smoothest I've shot was my Dryad Orion recurve.  I've shot alot of bows and this one wowed me.  You'll have to get up early and plan on staying up late to try and beat it.
Title: Re: Actionboo-vs-bamboo-vs-yew. Interesting.
Post by: Holm-Made on July 05, 2008, 11:43:00 PM
A lot of subjective observations for sure.  It's hard to base judgement on that one bow you had that shot so smooth or so fast.

I have made a lot of bows using the action boo cores.  I have made a lot of action boo bows off my "Osprey" longbow form.  Each bow was a little different even though the riser length was the same, form was the same and the core material was the same.  Some seem smoother than others. Some are a little quicker due to more early draw weight for some reason.  Wood and bamboo are natural products and are all a little different and vary from piece to piece.  Take 2 osage selfbows that are the same poundage,length and design but made from different trees.  Often times one will have a lot more wood in the limbs then the other even though they are the same poundage.  One tree was more dense then the other.  

Both Yew and Bamboo are fine products for laminations that have proven themslves time and time again.  You won't go wrong with either.  Which is better?  My opinion is neither, it's personal preference.

I do know that the natural action boo is noticably more dense than the amber action boo.  I can feel it as I rip the lams on the bandsaw.  It is also my opinion that the natural action boo is a little quicker.  Just my observations, no formal testing here.  Chad
Title: Re: Actionboo-vs-bamboo-vs-yew. Interesting.
Post by: Night Wing on July 10, 2008, 04:38:00 PM
This has been one of the best 5 pages (so far) on limb core woods I have ever read. Since I have plans  to purchase one more take down bow, my two limb choices have come down to Actionboo and Yew and it's a tough choice.
Title: Re: Actionboo-vs-bamboo-vs-yew. Interesting.
Post by: Orion on July 10, 2008, 05:20:00 PM
Yew has been around as a bow wood for a long time, in self-bows for thousands of years, and it's been as popular as most hardwoods in laminated bows over the past 50 years or so; not as popular as actionwood once was, of course.  Difficult to say whether it's faster than bamboo.  As O.L. pointed out, there's probably more variation in the lamnations of one species than there is between the two species.  Thus, the best yew selected is likely to be faster than the worst bamboo, and vice versa.  Until we have well regulated tests measuring the best of each, which is faster, smoother, etc. it's just conjecture.
Title: Re: Actionboo-vs-bamboo-vs-yew. Interesting.
Post by: Ian johnson on July 10, 2008, 05:40:00 PM
I take back what I said about the bamboo bow being smoothest, I just got a Massie reverse handle longbow that has actionwood cores and it is really smooth
Title: Re: Actionboo-vs-bamboo-vs-yew. Interesting.
Post by: Jedimaster on July 10, 2008, 09:03:00 PM
I agree that actionwood is underrated Ian.  I had a Silvertip with actionwood cores and it was one smooth operator.  Also, I admire the Black Widows with actionwood limbs.  Enjoy that longbow, it sounds like something special.
Title: Re: Actionboo-vs-bamboo-vs-yew. Interesting.
Post by: Bowman0202 on July 10, 2008, 11:35:00 PM
Yew is smooth and fast but, better not accidently dry fire a bow of yew.  Bamboo can usually take that.  Not yew. Been there and done that. Had one of my nocks split and bow blew up.  One of my favorites too.  Made me REAL careful to check my nocks since then AND to make sure they are firm in the string when I release.
Title: Re: Actionboo-vs-bamboo-vs-yew. Interesting.
Post by: Swamp Pygmy on July 11, 2008, 08:25:00 PM
sorry if this was went over already but it's such a great thread.

what is the difference between action boo and action wood? I understand what the process is I mean what is different between them? is a-Boo faster and lighter and a-wood heavier and more quiet? Or smoother?

Why would you choose one over the other. I understand the consistency is better when its made like that. But when they have the same process done what is the advantage over the other?
Title: Re: Actionboo-vs-bamboo-vs-yew. Interesting.
Post by: Orion on July 11, 2008, 09:21:00 PM
Actionwood typically is laminated maple.  Actionboo is laminated bamboo.  Thickness of the vertical laminations may vary depending on the manufacturer, but they're basically the same thing, just different materials.
Title: Re: Actionboo-vs-bamboo-vs-yew. Interesting.
Post by: Swamp Pygmy on July 12, 2008, 01:38:00 AM
oh okay. thank you. that makes sense.