Trad Gang

Main Boards => The Shooters FORM Board => Topic started by: B.O.D. on June 12, 2007, 07:59:00 AM

Title: Terry's FORM CLOCK : question?
Post by: B.O.D. on June 12, 2007, 07:59:00 AM
Terry, Does that "T" work for all builds??

I was a competitive powerlifter for many years, deadlifts, rack-pull, heavy shrugs etc...I have tried to make the "T" and physically cannot do it, it feels like I am crushing my traps/shoulder blades together.

Now, if I alter my anchor and  anchor to the back of my jawbone, it feels very close to a "T"( short arms), but wearing glasses when I shoot does not allow me to anchor way back there.

any tips?
Thanks,
BD
Title: Re: Terry's form-clock : question?
Post by: Terry Green on June 12, 2007, 12:42:00 PM
The BEST way for me to answer you question is on 'The Bowhunters of Trad Gang DVD'.  I go into detail on proper alignment, back tension, double anchoring...etc.

Its so much easier to see and hear than to try and convey it here in the typed word, but we'll give her a try since the clock pics have been helpfull to many...


I'm sure it wont work exactly perfect for all builds, but the goal is to get as close to that alignment as possible.

Proper alignment will serve you better as a shooter, no matter if you are shooting targets or hunting. It will make your shot more forgiving in the bowhunter's world of not so perfect shots, positions, and terrain.

It will give you a better release, steadier bow arm, and less torque on the bow and string.
Title: Re: Terry's form-clock : question?
Post by: Snakeeater on June 12, 2007, 09:20:00 PM
Terry,

Can you explain the "T" for those of us who missed the initial discussion(s), or point us to some older threads?

Thanks,

Snakeeater
Title: Re: Terry's form-clock : question?
Post by: Terry Green on June 12, 2007, 09:39:00 PM
Sure Snake.........There's going to be a little session in the The Bowhunters of Trad Gang DVD soon to come out...but let me see what I can find till then.....I think there's lots of info on this form already.....I'll have a look, and report back.

Terry
Title: Re: Terry's form-clock : question?
Post by: Terry Green on June 12, 2007, 09:56:00 PM
THIS...


       (http://www.tradgang.com/upload/terry/alignment.jpg)


EQUALS THIS...

       (http://www.tradgang.com/upload/terry/alignment2.JPG)


And NOT this....  Shoulders and arrow Parallel.


        (http://www.tradgang.com/upload/terry/ta.jpg)


And this...

       (http://www.tradgang.com/upload/terry/alignment2a.JPG)

Does NOT equal this......Shoulders, arrow AND Power Points Parallel.

       (http://www.tradgang.com/upload/terry/form2clock3.JPG)
Title: Re: Terry's form-clock : question?
Post by: Terry Green on June 12, 2007, 09:58:00 PM
When shooting downward.....

The Brown line is the waist......

     (http://www.tradgang.com/upload/terry/anglepic.JPG)

  Same as shooting upward, don't just raise the bow arm....bend at the waist and keep your alignment the same.
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Title: Re: Terry's form-clock : question?
Post by: Terry Green on June 12, 2007, 10:01:00 PM
Set up like this....No

     (http://www.tradgang.com/upload/terry/form3.JPG)

Ends you up here in the blink of an eye....

     (http://www.tradgang.com/upload/terry/form4.JPG)
Title: Re: Terry's form-clock : question?
Post by: Terry Green on June 12, 2007, 10:03:00 PM
This........

     (http://tradgang.com/terry/form2clock.jpg)

NOT like this.......

      (http://www.tradgang.com/upload/terry/bernard704.jpg)
Title: Re: Terry's form-clock : question?
Post by: Terry Green on June 12, 2007, 10:09:00 PM
NO

   (http://www.tradgang.com/upload/terry/al2.JPG)

NO

   (http://www.tradgang.com/upload/terry/al3.JPG)

NO

   (http://www.tradgang.com/upload/terry/al4.JPG)
Title: Re: Terry's form-clock : question?
Post by: Terry Green on June 12, 2007, 10:28:00 PM
(http://www.tradgang.com/upload/terry/alignment11.bmp)
Title: Re: Terry's form-clock : question?
Post by: Terry Green on June 12, 2007, 10:43:00 PM
(http://www.tradgang.com/upload/terry/alignment17.bmp)
Title: Re: Terry's form-clock : question?
Post by: B.O.D. on June 13, 2007, 08:22:00 AM
Thanks man.  :bigsmyl:  good schematics.
BD
Title: Re: Terry's form-clock : question?
Post by: Snakeeater on June 13, 2007, 09:08:00 AM
Thanks Tarz, that helps alot.
Title: Re: Terry's form-clock : question?
Post by: keith brimmer on June 13, 2007, 01:07:00 PM
terry you mentioned the trad gang dvd is this an instructional dvd or the one on pow wow that tom is compiling
Title: Re: Terry's form-clock : question?
Post by: Terry Green on June 14, 2007, 10:48:00 AM
Keith......one and the same video.
Title: Re: Terry's form-clock : question?
Post by: Terry Green on June 14, 2007, 11:05:00 AM
(http://www.tradgang.com/upload/terry/magict1.gif)

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     (http://www.tradgang.com/upload/terry/magict2.gif)
Title: Re: Terry's form-clock : question?
Post by: keith brimmer on June 14, 2007, 11:37:00 AM
terry the drawings are excellent and so simple.just hard to do consistently. lol
Title: Re: Terry's form-clock : question?
Post by: Terry Green on June 14, 2007, 11:56:00 AM
Keith......not so hard to do if you use a double anchor to make sure you get your back tension.
Title: Re: Terry's form-clock : question?
Post by: Molson on June 14, 2007, 03:30:00 PM
Nice job putting this all together on one post Terry.

To get back to the original question, the overlooked truth about form is it's all about straight lines.  Your goal is to get that arrow to leave the bow in as straight a line as possible despite the bow and your influence on it.  Understanding that this is the whole purpose of form (and tuning) often gets lost in the little singular pieces that make up your shooting.

You may look a little different than Terry, but if you make the right adjustments to fit you, you can achieve proper alignment, which will lead to consistent shooting with dilligent practice.

One other thing for the new fellows coming over from the compound.  You will not be regularly splitting nocks in two days, two weeks, or two years. Traditional archery takes time, experience, knowledge, and your commitment to achieve proficiency.  This is not a game of instant success.  Accept this now and dedicate yourself to improvement, or move on and save yourself a bunch of disappointment.
Title: Re: Terry's form-clock : question?
Post by: keith brimmer on June 14, 2007, 04:17:00 PM
WELL said molson
Title: Re: Terry's form-clock : question?
Post by: keith brimmer on June 19, 2007, 10:26:00 AM
terry ive used your shot clock as a refernce for a while but for some reason it didnt sink in until i saw your stick figures  esp. the last one.feels comfortable too, i must have been close before just needed a lil shove .thanks again.
keith
Title: Re: Terry's form-clock : question?
Post by: Deadbolt on June 21, 2007, 01:28:00 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Molson:
One other thing for the new fellows coming over from the compound.  You will not be regularly splitting nocks in two days, two weeks, or two years. Traditional archery takes time, experience, knowledge, and your commitment to achieve proficiency.  This is not a game of instant success.  Accept this now and dedicate yourself to improvement, or move on and save yourself a bunch of disappointment.
Aint that the truth...I'm very use to instant correction with my wheelie bow so trad shooting a a MAJOR change to a VERY impatient person.  I'm working very hard at correcting all my flaws.

I must say though recurves make an honest man...you can be an awsome shot w/ a compound and still have horrible habbits but a recurve will show how good your form really is.  I have some work to do....OK ALOT of work to do!
Title: Re: Terry's form-clock : question?
Post by: tradtusker on June 21, 2007, 05:19:00 PM
Terry please explain this "double anchor" to make sure you get back tension???
Title: Re: Terry's form-clock : question?
Post by: Terry Green on June 24, 2007, 07:54:00 PM
Sure,

I drag my thumb base knuckle along side my face, and as my middle finger comes to the corner of my mouth I keep coming, and my thumb base knuckle slides in behind my jaw under my ear.
Title: Re: Terry's form-clock : question?
Post by: BobCo 1965 on June 25, 2007, 09:56:00 AM
Terry, do you think that the draw elbow might be a bit high in the first picture on this page?
Title: Re: Terry's form-clock : question?
Post by: Terry Green on June 25, 2007, 04:15:00 PM
Bob, no, I really don't.  From 9- 10: O'clock is pretty standard, different positions for different body structures.....however, if you get abovee 10:00 O'clock, you can run into some negative issues.

Here's my elbow on a level shot...probably around the 9:15 position....

       (http://tradgang.com/terry/form1clock.jpg)


Please be aware...The elbow doesn't just 'come back farther'...it comes around in a 'J' shape.  Do not be afraid to 'cozy up' to your anchor.

     (http://www.tradgang.com/upload/terry/form2clock3a.JPG)


BODY POSITION :

Not this.....

       (http://www.tradgang.com/upload/terry/form1clockverticalnot.jpg)

But this...

       (http://www.tradgang.com/upload/terry/form1clockvertical.jpg)

Not this(red line)...this causes a 'fly away' release and bow torque.


    (http://www.tradgang.com/upload/terry/formclockmod.jpg)
Title: Re: Terry's form-clock : question?
Post by: BobCo 1965 on June 25, 2007, 04:19:00 PM
Thanks for clarifying Terry. I do see people shooting up around 10:00. Personally, I stay at 9:00 as I have trouble with anything but that area. But like you said, different builds..
Title: Re: Terry's form-clock : question?
Post by: Terry Green on July 28, 2008, 08:16:00 PM
Here's another issue folks have....not understanding HOW to draw a bow correctly to obtain alignment.

You do NOT draw with your arm or bicep....that is called 'muscling the bow'....you draw with a rearward rotation like you are going to close a door behind you......

OK....the door is in a normal position.

The shooter is where he would stand yet closer to the door so the draw motion would actually shut it...but this is the overhead view of the shooter to show the draw.

     (http://www.tradgang.com/upload/terry/doorcloseform.jpg)
Title: Re: Terry's form-clock : question?
Post by: Terry Green on November 12, 2008, 09:36:00 AM
Up for Tinch....
Title: Re: Terry's form-clock : question?
Post by: old school on November 14, 2008, 10:14:00 AM
Terry, How do I get the Bowhunters of trad gang DVD ?
Old School
Title: Re: Terry's form-clock : question?
Post by: Terry Green on November 14, 2008, 01:24:00 PM
Sure thing Jim...just click below.....

  TradGang Store (http://www.tradgang.com/tgstore/index.html)
Title: Re: Terry's form-clock : question?
Post by: J-KID on December 17, 2008, 09:44:00 PM
I've been reading the various threads on "Terry's Form-Clock."  I reviewed "Masters of the Barebow" Volumes I & II to examine the shooters shoulder positions and all appear to have parallel lines with arrow and shoulders even though some have stances that are more open than others.  Parallel shoulders appears to be a common denominator to accurate shooting regardless of foot position.  Turn and twist, shoot up or down, but keep those shoulders parallel.  Good StufF!
Title: Re: Terry's form-clock : question?
Post by: Shakes.602 on December 19, 2008, 10:50:00 PM
MONEY WELL SPENT!!!
Title: Re: Terry's form-clock : question?
Post by: NorthernCaliforniaHunter on January 02, 2009, 05:05:00 PM
Spendid   :clapper:  

Thank you all!
Title: Re: Terry's form-clock : question?
Post by: Bear Heart on January 16, 2009, 01:17:00 PM
If you are having questions on alignment please get the Bowhunters of Tradgang DVD.  It has a section with Terry devoted to it.  Nothing like seeing it in action.
Title: Re: Terry's form-clock : question?
Post by: stick_string on March 03, 2009, 05:00:00 PM
Terry,
Is the bow arm suppose to be bent?  I lock my bow arm and continually slap my arm with the string.  Thoughts?
Title: Re: Terry's form-clock : question?
Post by: Terry Green on March 16, 2009, 08:18:00 PM
I have my bow arm straight, but my arm wont straighten out all the way.  If you are getting string slap on your arm, you might need to bend your arm a tad, or you are gripping the bow too far to the inside, or you are torquing the bow or string.
Title: Re: Terry's form-clock : question?
Post by: Stringslap16 on April 05, 2009, 05:47:00 PM
Terry,  I am turning my head so my first anchor is at corner of mouth (first incisor) and then anchor the string at the tip of my nose?   I see in both you and byrons pictures that your head position is inline with your shoulders. Would I shoot better if I didn't turn my head to touch my nose to the string?
Title: Re: Terry's form-clock : question?
Post by: Terry Green on April 10, 2009, 10:03:00 AM
If you anchoring your string at the tip of your nose, you may not be getting full extention/proper back tention....most 'nose' anchores are feathers touching the nose which means the nock and string are an inch back and the string is past the nose.

Any way you can film?
Title: Re: Terry's form-clock : question?
Post by: Stringslap16 on April 29, 2009, 07:52:00 PM
No I have no way of filming.  But like I said I first anchor at the corner of my mouth (first incisor tooth) then turn my head slightly until the tip of my nose touches the string, for the second anchor point.  So my nock is about an inch or so past my nose.  I was just wondering of any problems that could arise in slightly turning my head toward the string.
Title: Re: Terry's form-clock : question?
Post by: GMMAT on April 30, 2009, 12:04:00 PM
Terry:

In reviewing the photos provided.....it appears to me (an admitted novice) that a lot of issues might be solved by not short-drawing.

Do you find this to be an obstacle for a lot of trad. archers?
Title: Re: Terry's form-clock : question?
Post by: jacobsladder on April 30, 2009, 01:24:00 PM
I think there is a "bunch" of folks over bowed.... its not uncommon to hear a guy say i dropped 5-10 pounds in weight and my draw length increased 1 inch...... now they have there elbow back..not pointing too the side...and much better alignment.... Overbowed = shortdrawing.
Title: Re: Terry's form-clock : question?
Post by: cjgregory on May 14, 2009, 05:24:00 PM
That was sweeeet Terry.
Title: Re: Terry's form-clock : question?
Post by: bow loving man on December 02, 2009, 11:40:00 AM
Terry, your instruction has really helped me and also helped me show my son what he needs to practice but a question was asked, "When you reach anchor at the corner of your mouth and move to the thumb nuckle touching your jaw bone, do you stretch you mouth corner until you reach that second anchor?"  I said yes, is that correct?
Title: Re: Terry's form-clock : question?
Post by: divecon10 on December 30, 2009, 09:57:00 PM
That clock is a very effective reference! Too the drawing, Tho am not exactly following the colored lines of Picasso.
Great help tho! thanks all!
Title: Re: Terry's form-clock : question?
Post by: bauke on January 06, 2010, 02:01:00 PM
Terry

One question: Do you deside on an anchor point and then try and get to 'full' draw, or do you first determine full draw and then get the best possible anchor to go with your full draw? If I do the last, I add 2-3" to my drawlength.
Title: Re: Terry's form-clock : question?
Post by: Terry Green on January 07, 2010, 09:46:00 AM
Neather really.....it just all 'came about' while learning to shoot.

The best way to get properly aligned is to do it on the bale....and find the place to anchor with your elbow pointing at 6 o'clock....and if you can find a second(double) anchor that's even better.

Drill it in on the bale and it will happen automaticaly in the field.
Title: Re: Terry's form-clock : question?
Post by: J. Cook on January 07, 2010, 02:40:00 PM
Man...I read all this at the wrong time!  It's too cold for me to shoot much now, but now I have a serious "yearning" to go out and shoot and work on this!!!!  

Gee - Thanks alot Terry!!!!    :mad:  

But seriously, this is great info, that I'm really excited about trying.  I've been complacent to believe that short drawing and snap shooting was accpetable, but I'm going to work on this.  I'm all for another inch or two of draw stroke power!!!  

Good stuff Terry, and though I know you did all this a couple of years ago, thanks for putting all that time in to do it right, with the DVD and pictorals for us!  

You guys are top-notch.
Title: Re: Terry's form-clock : question?
Post by: leftybearfan on January 10, 2010, 08:43:00 PM
Just wanted to echo what many others have said....that clock picture really helped me out. I'm not able to get completely parallel on every shot, but at least I know what it 'should' look and feel like.
Title: Re: Terry's form-clock : question?
Post by: ren sarns on February 04, 2010, 11:23:00 AM
Great info here,  now I have to break out the video camera and check my form.  The clock is great!  Thanks
Title: Re: Terry's form-clock : question?
Post by: BobCo 1965 on February 04, 2010, 02:29:00 PM
.
Title: Re: Terry's form-clock : question?
Post by: eric-thor on March 05, 2010, 12:27:00 PM
well im stoaked . this thread is really takin off ,
so its helping me a bunch i read earlier in this thread last week about bringing the string to tip of nose and corner of mouth witch is funny cause i ALLWAYS teach this to compound shooters , i never thought it would work for trad , i used to anchor like gordon in my eye tooth but i had allot of inconsistancy with blurred vision "i wear glassses and have a sever stigmatisim. this anchor has made a huge diff. although its really been a strugggle to remember this new aanchor but when i do man do i drill the shot if i dont i miss right over the top . so ill just have to practice allot more to get that muscle memory. thanks for the help .
.
Title: Re: Terry's form-clock : question?
Post by: Wldhorse on March 19, 2010, 07:18:00 AM
Terry, Your Clock Picture is truly worth a thousand words. Thanks,  Pete
Title: Re: Terry's form-clock : question?
Post by: charles m on March 19, 2010, 08:36:00 AM
Wildhorse,

You should get the DVD!!!!

 http://www.tradgang.com/tgstore/index.html
Title: Re: Terry's form-clock : question?
Post by: SpencerL on May 14, 2010, 04:16:00 PM
Thanks! that picture is starting to put it into perspective.
Title: Re: Terry's form-clock : question?
Post by: Fourarrows on May 16, 2010, 06:34:00 PM
This is the most helpful form lesson I've noticed so far...
Title: Re: Terry's form-clock : question?
Post by: Paka on May 30, 2010, 04:43:00 AM
Awesome Guys ,
  Am pretty new to trad. bowhunting but am really enjoying it. Was so glad to read the post of how compound shooters usually take awhile to split arrows , I was starting to worry. I finished my boardbow(thnx 4est) and have been shooting for about 3-4 weeks now am trying to figure out the arrow situation and form situation, this has really helped . You all make it look so easy .
   Thanks so much everyone  P.T.
Title: Re: Terry's form-clock : question?
Post by: Paka on May 31, 2010, 05:28:00 AM
Took some photo's tonight and saw my elbow on draw hand is  high. Also saw my arrows come pass riser to my hand nuckles , errr . Will keep at it.
Title: Re: Terry's form-clock : question?
Post by: browndown on June 14, 2010, 10:13:00 PM
Terry,

Just started shooting last year,i have alot of hints from oters but this just make sence. Can't wait to use the info. Thanks
Title: Re: Terry's form-clock : question?
Post by: amazonjim on July 13, 2010, 08:40:00 AM
Terry,

Great job, I am sure this will help me also
Title: Re: Terry's form-clock : question?
Post by: Terry Green on July 25, 2010, 09:28:00 AM
Glad to see this thread is still getting mileage!!!

   :campfire:
Title: Re: Terry's form-clock : question?
Post by: BobCo 1965 on July 30, 2010, 12:32:00 PM
Personally, I see this from a slightly different perspective. But it is really Po-tat-o - Pot-at-o stuff. I see a line through both shoulders to the bow arm wrist. This alignment will be the most rigid and is referred to as the "Barrel of the Gun" among archers. Either way you look at or perceive it though is fine. Great reference tool Terry!

 (http://img130.imageshack.us/img130/6093/ta1v.jpg)
Title: Re: Terry's form-clock : question?
Post by: Ben Tstic on August 13, 2010, 10:23:00 PM
just ordered the DVD; this is gonna help me a lot!

Fantastic site...it's like everything you ever wanted to know about bows is here, or some one knows some one who might know someone, etc...

I like the way the rules are laid out plain, & that no disrespect or vehement arguing is tolerated.

Shot trad as a kid a bit, and still haven't completely kicked the wheelbow, but don't shoot it much anymore...I seem to have too many new (to me)actually old tradbows accumulating that need to be shot...

somehow,...I don't seem to mind...even shot the last round in the rain this evening... I thought it was gonna quit, but as I was dripping with sweat anyway, it felt pretty good...
Title: Re: Terry's form-clock : question?
Post by: njloco on September 07, 2010, 08:04:00 PM
Well guys and gales this just clicked for me on Saturday. As they say it's a little hard to put into words but here goes, I'm not new to Trad. but in many ways I am. I started shooting many years ago when I was very young and stopped when I was in my early twenties. Then in my late forties ended up going hunting and switched to a wheeler. decided to come back to Trad. a couple of years ago which would make it my late fifties. Had a few set backs ( bypass surgery ) but now I'm good to go. Been reading posts on here and watching a DVD, but couldn't quite figure it all out. Then I saw Terry's clock, and said to myself " oh that's what I was doing all those years ago, back in the 50's through the early 70's. It put my archery shooting into perspective.

Put this together with trying to demonstrate how to shoot a Trad. bow to a friend, and telling him he should really try shooting at a blank bale, and then showing it to him, but doing it myself for the first, that is when it all started to click. I went home and was a little tired, so I did some chores around the house and then relaxed a little. It was getting late and I figured I would go out and shoot a little more, I drew the first arrow back and that is when I realized I am shooting like I did when I was younger, everything that the experienced guys try and explain to the new people to Trad. came together. I didn't have to concentrate on my form because my brain and body already knew what I was asking of them, all I had to do was watch the spot I wanted to hit and it happened. All those years ago I was a good shooter but I knew nothing about the actual mechanics until now.

All I could say is Thank you all, and I will try my best to pass it on.

Ken
Title: Re: Terry's form-clock : question?
Post by: watchamakalit on November 04, 2010, 08:39:00 AM
Wow just finished reading through this and it all makes sense now.  I am a recent wheel bow convert and was starting to doubt my abilities.  I average about 20-30 arrows a day through the recurve but couldn't seem to improve.  Now I know what to look for and am pretty sure where I went wrong.  I think this is the best form explanation tool I have ever seen.
Title: Re: Terry's form-clock : question?
Post by: Robin Earp on November 12, 2010, 04:23:00 PM
I have looked at Terry's clock, a number of times and i still can't figure out what the blazes he is trying to say
Title: Re: Terry's form-clock : question?
Post by: jfelkins on December 03, 2010, 10:58:00 AM
I just ordered the dvd and am hoping that I can take a lot away from it.

My question is, how to practice? Or better yet, how do I build great form? I don't mean the pieces and parts of a great shot. I mean the regime of shooting. I'm building an arrow stop in my garage so I can shoot all weather day or night. So, if you were starting from ground zero how would you build great form. I'm a hunter and want to be confident when I draw my bow back. Thanks for any tips. I'm studying this thread and learning a ton. Thanks Terry!!!
Title: Re: Terry's form-clock : question?
Post by: Okie man on December 03, 2010, 07:51:00 PM
I just ordered 2 DVD's one for me and one for my son. I seemed to have reached a plateau in my shooting.  I'm OK out to 25yds and on some days 30-35 but, I think I must be having a form issue or I could back up further and get decent results.  I don't know of any archery coaches in Oklahoma.  If anyone knows a coach within 100 miles of Enid, OK please let me know.  Hopefully, the DVD has some longbow form instruction that will help. Great price for 2 DVD's too.
Title: Re: Terry's form-clock : question?
Post by: coachA on December 09, 2010, 10:19:00 AM
Where can I get the Trad Gang dvd?
Title: Re: Terry's form-clock : question?
Post by: Terry Green on December 09, 2010, 12:00:00 PM
CLICK HERE (http://www.tradgang.com/tgstore/index.html)
Title: Re: Terry's form-clock : question?
Post by: fujimo on January 01, 2011, 03:33:00 PM
how will we be able to get hold of it?
regards
wayne
Title: Re: Terry's form-clock : question?
Post by: deercraver on January 02, 2011, 10:05:00 PM
Wow real quick to the point  easy to understand great job that helps us new guys out thank you
Title: Re: Terry's form-clock : question?
Post by: Lone Ranger on January 15, 2011, 05:27:00 PM
just ordered my dvd- may be the best 12 bucks I've spent today!    looking forward to it!


L.R.
Title: Re: Terry's form-clock : question?
Post by: tradshooter on February 18, 2011, 10:47:00 PM
Great thread. I just ordered the DVD and will see if this old dog (57 years) can improve his shooting skills as there is always room for improvement...if one is willing to learn. I am ready and willing. Terry your explanations make total sense. I look forward to trying this form. I have always been a split finger shooter (since I was 10 years old) that anchored pointer finger at the corner of my mouth or my middle finger on my upper incisor. I am going to give this a go. Thanks for all of your efforts in developing this style and sharing your skills with us.
Title: Re: Terry's form-clock : question?
Post by: Trumpkin the Dwarf on March 10, 2011, 11:27:00 PM
The form clock is great!   :thumbsup:   When I first started looking around in the forum and stumbled on this it was a "light bulb" moment for me. I never imagined I might be under drawing my bow until I stumbled on this thread. I finally understand (hopefully)why I my shooting has been so erratic.
Title: Re: Terry's form-clock : question?
Post by: horsehairhunter on March 16, 2011, 12:34:00 AM
Terry-Great stuff.  When I am shooting alone, how do I confirm that your arrow and shoulders ar parellel?  Obviously I can't look down on myself and check my form....
Title: Re: Terry's form-clock : question?
Post by: daniel boon on March 16, 2011, 08:40:00 AM
where can i get Terry's form clock?  is it on the Tradgang video? thanks
Title: Re: Terry's form-clock : question?
Post by: Terry Green on March 16, 2011, 09:48:00 AM
Horse....you can video yourself....there's also a lot of info in the stickied video thread....

Daniel...yes, there is a shooting segment on the Trad Gang DVD...and a lot of the form clock stuff is on this very thread....start from the beginning.
Title: Re: Terry's form-clock : question?
Post by: smoke1953 on March 16, 2011, 11:23:00 AM
I know you shoot from every type of angle and since I started I've tried to never settle in on only one way to shoot so as to imitate hunting conditions. Your form clock is demonstrated with a closed stance I'm assuming that is for demo purposes yet I have moved to a very open stance to imitate conditions in the field. Alignment must take a beating in these circumstances I would guess. I think my adjustment has been not only in a waist twist but also requiring rolling back that rear shoulder further than you might feel as comfortable to achieve alignment. Any thoughts?
Title: Re: Terry's form-clock : question?
Post by: 2fletch on March 16, 2011, 08:57:00 PM
Terry, I believe that is as clear as anything I've seen on the alignment of arrow with the bowhand, shoulders, and elbow. You are the man! Thanks!   :archer2:    :archer2:
Title: Re: Terry's form-clock : question?
Post by: sorefingers on March 17, 2011, 12:38:00 AM
Wow! thanks Terry according to your schmatics I have some work to do.
Title: Re: Terry's form-clock : question?
Post by: raghorns on March 18, 2011, 05:41:00 PM
I have shot traditional for years and never seemed to improve much. Since I have been working on form and doing my best with the form clock, my shooting has improved dramatically. If one of those evil fliers shows it's ugly head, I just go back to the basics of proper form.

Hey, did I mention I won the longbow division at the last 3D shoot? Just bragg'in on the form clock!

Thanks to all who do so much to help guys like me who love to shot and want to be the best they can be..."cause close enough never is!"
Title: Re: Terry's form-clock : question?
Post by: Robin Earp on April 03, 2011, 02:52:00 AM
I have been looking at that clock for about 2 years,and i still can't figure out how to read it
Title: Re: Terry's form-clock : question?
Post by: PaddyMac on April 19, 2011, 08:06:00 PM
I'm coming from wheels, but I shot without sites for a long time and have never used a release. I've double anchored instinctively. And I immediately started slapping my arm, so I opened up a little and then my group widened up. Closed it up and the group tightens again. So I started bending my bow arm a little, but my bow is heavy for me and that's pretty hard. So I'm going to a much lighter bow and ... getting that DVD.

This is great stuff. I haven't had anyone talk about form since boy scout camp. More more more.
Title: Re: Terry's form-clock : question?
Post by: cjgregory on May 15, 2011, 02:15:00 PM
I'm glad I came back to this thread. lol won a shoot on tuesday but was hitting left on the range two days later and was getting exasperated.  The stick figures put it all together again.  When I was releasing, my bow arm was going back to the left and throwing the arrow left. lol

So I went to a blank bail and worked on my back tension some and called it a day.

Terry,

Is the back tension and lockup between the shoulder blades an indicator or tool to ensure everything is pointed at the target line?
Title: Re: Terry's form-clock : question?
Post by: jamesh76 on May 18, 2011, 04:28:00 AM
I just ordered this video. It will be good instruction for my son.

James
Title: Re: Terry's form-clock : question?
Post by: Terry Green on May 18, 2011, 09:19:00 AM
cjgregory....yes....and to make sure you ARE using your back and not 'muscling' the bow with your arm muscles.
Title: Re: Terry's form-clock : question?
Post by: NormanDale33 on October 26, 2011, 07:29:00 PM
Terry, this thread and your clock have been a great help with shooting. I need to get the TradGang DVD now.
Title: Re: Terry's form-clock : question?
Post by: Llamma1 on October 29, 2011, 06:22:00 PM
Thank you for this it has helped my shooting immensely.
Title: Re: Terry's form-clock : question?
Post by: Dimondback on January 09, 2012, 01:10:00 AM
Thanks Terry!....your diagrams solved some issues that I was having with my form...shoulders were canted instead of parallel with the arrow.
Title: Re: Terry's form-clock : question?
Post by: Terry Green on January 30, 2012, 12:38:00 PM
Good to hear Diamond.....stay after it!!!
Title: Re: Terry's form-clock : question?
Post by: momo on February 17, 2012, 07:07:00 AM
the  t is very inportant in form shooting and help in alot of things release follow thou achor points . it really hard to break bad habbit but if you prac on form and worry about result later thing starte to happen for you tighter groups better feel better results but remember to have fun body are diffent try to get as close as you can to the t and have fun with it. remeber follow thou is very inportant and the bow arm is always forgotting keep it up and in the same postion as when you release the arrow
Title: Re: Terry's form-clock : question?
Post by: Thin Man on March 29, 2012, 03:34:00 PM
Terry,

I have been working with your form clock as well as Moebow's rotational draw concepts.

I anchor split with index on corner of mouth. When I get what feels to be a good shoulder-to-target alignment with my anchor firm on face (almost tugging behind me), the sensation of shooting feels a bit like I'm shooting from behind my head over my back. My draw length is also a bit shorter then what I had when my form was not as aligned.

My better shots feel this way, and I attribute the shorter draw length to the alignment and natural lay to anchor, whereas before I was perhaps pulling backwards with my elbow and shoulder away from the target, producing an artificial extension.

Is this feeling of "shooting behind the head" and shorter draw length on the right track?

Thanks for the great tutorials. (and to Moebow for his, as well!)
Title: Re: Terry's form-clock : question?
Post by: Terry Green on April 09, 2012, 04:56:00 PM
Sounds like you are creating the 'J' now with your drawing arm...and yes, that's what you want to achieve to acquire back tension and energy going directly toward and away from the target.
Title: Re: Terry's form-clock : question?
Post by: Hunter74 on May 15, 2012, 04:10:00 PM
I think it clicked!!!

Now by no means am I saying I became a great shot but literally overnight my shooting got very considerably better...

All it took is to focus at the beginning of each shot to get everything in my upper body pointed straight at or straight away from the target. Then I focus on squeezing with my back muscles!
Title: Re: Terry's form-clock : question?
Post by: tradhunterRN on May 24, 2012, 02:26:00 PM
Have been lurking on the form forum for a bit now and reading Terry's form clock over and over. After piecing it all together this is the conclusion about cant and alignment that I have come up with and just want to know if I am on target here.

If I let my bow take a slight cant as it naturally does when pointing at the target, do I have to bend slightly at the waist to line up with the bow/string? Ensuring that I keep full expansion of course, moving nothing else but the waist.
Title: Re: Terry's form-clock : question?
Post by: Cuban Missile on May 24, 2012, 10:34:00 PM
So I bought the DVD on the 15th Terry do you know when it will ship?
Title: Re: Terry's form-clock : question?
Post by: Terry Green on May 28, 2012, 04:13:00 PM
Yes....if you cant the bow, you need to cant your head....or your waist to stay in alignment with the string....also make sure your string hand is canted same as string or you will but a Z Torque on the string.

Your video should have shipped last week....I'll check and see....I've been away for a week....sorry for the delay.
Title: Re: Terry's form-clock : question?
Post by: Cuban Missile on June 04, 2012, 02:05:00 PM
Still no DVD...  any idea on when it will deliver?
Title: Re: Terry's form-clock : question?
Post by: Cuban Missile on June 04, 2012, 02:22:00 PM
HAH... I just got it.    :knothead:
Title: Re: Terry's form-clock : question?
Post by: shirikahn on July 22, 2012, 09:22:00 AM
I just learned more reading this than all my teen years bugging the local shop owner lol
Title: Re: Terry's form-clock : question?
Post by: arrowlauncherdj on August 14, 2012, 06:18:00 PM
To me it looks like opening your stance too much could be a big problem (my problem) keeping alignment... I never did that shootn wheels. Should I try closing some to see if it helps keep me from collapsing as I tend to shoot left like 6-8" at random times?
Title: Re: Terry's form-clock : question?
Post by: Terry Green on August 22, 2012, 09:27:00 AM
Stance really has no bearing on alignment....its all from the waist up.  If you are properly aligned, your form doesn't care what position your legs are in...heck, it don't even care what position your upper body is either.
Title: Re: Terry's form-clock : question?
Post by: arrowlauncherdj on August 23, 2012, 03:58:00 PM
I figured out part of my problem.  I always anchored with my thumb up by my temple, but when I get tired, I tend to press with my thumb hard thinking I am keeping my anchor solid, when infact, I am pushing my hand away from my face.

I had to go to the bale and relearn how to anchor with my thumb down at jaw line, which felt about as unnatural as wearing my pants backwards.  But since doing that, my anchor seems to be more solid without string hand torque and I can hold more steady with a cleaner release.  

dave
Title: Re: Terry's form-clock : question?
Post by: BigBucksnTrucks on September 17, 2012, 11:40:00 AM
Hello All, this is some great info here, I have a question though,  I saw some one referring to 2 anchor points.  I shoot 3 under and anchor my pointer finger to the corner of my mouth.  What is the 2nd anchor that is referred to?
Title: Re: Terry's form-clock : question?
Post by: Terry Green on October 02, 2012, 08:37:00 AM
You have to find that second anchor point that fits you.....do a search for double anchor and you will find a lot of info.
Title: Re: Terry's form-clock : question?
Post by: Terry Green on November 21, 2012, 07:13:00 AM
Now Back to your regularly scheduled programing.....   :   :campfire:    :campfire:    :campfire:
Title: Re: Terry's form-clock : question?
Post by: Gowski on November 23, 2012, 10:07:00 PM
New here on the forums, and this thread is probably the greatest resource I have found to help improve my form. Even bought the DVD, just to be safe. Thanks!
Title: Re: Terry's form-clock : question?
Post by: bowhunterportugal on December 04, 2012, 10:08:00 PM
Terry, how do I know I'm using back tension? I feel my back muscles but I also feel my upper arm muscles after a training session on the bale!

Also, are you shipping DVD's? What is the time expected to receive it, say, to Savannah Georgia?
Title: Re: Terry's form-clock : question?
Post by: Terry Green on December 05, 2012, 08:56:00 AM
Get the DVD order in and I'll get it out same day if I can...Savannah is Next Day since I'm from GA.


In your last video, your alignment looks pretty good...you still may be using arm muscles 'early' in the draw and the back is taking over soon after....no matter long at the back takes over.

Based on those clips and your elbow movement and lack of bow hand movement....I'd say back tension is clearly underway.
Title: Re: Terry's form-clock : question?
Post by: bowhunterportugal on December 05, 2012, 08:59:00 AM
Thanks.

What about the use of a form master? I just made one this morning but haven't tried it yet.
Title: Re: Terry's form-clock : question?
Post by: bowhunterportugal on December 07, 2012, 04:41:00 PM
Terry, give me your opinion please...

 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vGw9wEx_mXQ&feature=youtu.be

It seems that I lay my head after anchor! It doesn't seem right!
Title: Re: Terry's form-clock : question?
Post by: Landlocked Pirate on December 12, 2012, 05:12:00 PM
From way back pn page 4:

 
Quote
The best way to get properly aligned is to do it on the bale....and find the place to anchor with your elbow pointing at 6 o'clock....and if you can find a second(double) anchor that's even better.
 
I understand the concept, but with my particular build and my long arms, if I bring my elbow back to the full 6:00 position, then my hand is completely behind my head. Any suggestions on how to compensate? I plan on ordering the DVD by the way.
Title: Re: Terry's form-clock : question?
Post by: ShinBone on December 29, 2012, 01:20:00 AM
I will try to buy the tradgang dvd.  I have the M*sters of Barebow series 1-4.  It has helped a lot.  Now, will try to buy the tradgang dvd.

I feel I am at a point where I have enough bows.  I have like 5 or six of bows already.  I don't need to constantly check the classified to buy more bows (albeit, I am missing longbows in my collection, as I have zero longbows.)  Now, it is time to spend money on DVDs to funnel money into proper learning and shooting form.

cheers.

I will look for the tradgang dvd and buy them.  If there is a whole series, I will buy the entire series.

cheers.
Title: Re: Terry's form-clock : question?
Post by: ShinBone on January 03, 2013, 08:09:00 PM
How many volumes of tragan Hunter dvd's are there?  I just bought the first volume for 8 dollars (a bargain).  The vouliume is from 2007.

is there a vol 2 ,3 ,4 like masters of barebow?

thx!

shinbone!
Title: Re: Terry's form-clock : question?
Post by: Terry Green on February 04, 2013, 12:39:00 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Landlocked Pirate:
From way back pn page 4:

 
Quote
The best way to get properly aligned is to do it on the bale....and find the place to anchor with your elbow pointing at 6 o'clock....and if you can find a second(double) anchor that's even better.
 
I understand the concept, but with my particular build and my long arms, if I bring my elbow back to the full 6:00 position, then my hand is completely behind my head. Any suggestions on how to compensate? I plan on ordering the DVD by the way. [/b]
Sorry for not seeing this earlier....would be a big help if you could video.
Title: Re: Terry's form-clock : question?
Post by: Terry Green on February 04, 2013, 12:39:00 PM
Quote
Originally posted by ShinBone:
How many volumes of tragan Hunter dvd's are there?  I just bought the first volume for 8 dollars (a bargain).  The vouliume is from 2007.

is there a vol 2 ,3 ,4 like masters of barebow?

thx!

shinbone!
Just the one....wish I had more time...I have footage for another...just not enough time.
Title: Re: Terry's form-clock : question?
Post by: jerseyboy on February 16, 2013, 03:12:00 PM
I always thought my draw length with trad gear was 27" but if i make the proper T form its actually 29" the same as with my compound
Title: Re: Terry's form-clock : question?
Post by: jerseyboy on February 16, 2013, 05:56:00 PM
It only took 40 years of shooting to realize this...oh boy
Title: Re: Terry's form-clock : question?
Post by: S.C. Hunter on February 16, 2013, 07:42:00 PM
Quote
Originally posted by jerseyboy:
It only took 40 years of shooting to realize this...oh boy
Yep same boat here. When I was still shooting a wheelie my draw was about 30.5" but that was with a release. I was shooting my longbow with a 28"-28.5" draw up until about a month ago. I now have a 29.5" draw, which I apparently had the entire time but was not taking advantage of that extra draw length. I was told initially that it is normal to be that much shorter with a trad bow.

I was shooting well and never thought about changing anything. I was bent a little more at the waist than I needed to be and my head was forward more than needed, but I was hitting my anchor and thought all was well.

I have been spending a lot of time just drawing my bow holding, and putting the focus on my back tension. I am now able to come to draw and hold a little longer if I need to and feel no need to release the arrow on contact with my anchor. I now draw settle in focus on a spot and release. My daughter has been using a timer when I do this and the hold is between 1.45-1.79 sec I have her start the timer when I reach anchor. I also have done this holding for 5 sec and then release, this is for backyard practice no target just a focus on my form. For me this feels like forever because before she could not start and stop the timer fast enough to time me. I literally would draw hit anchor and the arrow was gone. I have practiced a lot holding for up to 20 sec for 3-5 reps and then 6 reps. But then I do another 5-10 reps holding for up to 15 sec. I will never be a really slow shooter it goes against my natural rhythm. The difference now is I actually take that extra second or two at full draw to settle into the shot. Feels so much better. Thanks Moebow
Title: Re: Terry's form-clock : question?
Post by: S.C. Hunter on February 16, 2013, 07:47:00 PM
Quote
Originally posted by S.C. Hunter:
   
Quote
Originally posted by jerseyboy:
It only took 40 years of shooting to realize this...oh boy
Yep same boat here. When I was still shooting a wheelie my draw was about 30.5" but that was with a release. I was shooting my longbow with a 28"-28.5" draw up until about a month ago. I now have a 29.5" draw, which I apparently had the entire time but was not taking advantage of that extra draw length. I was told initially that it is normal to be that much shorter with a trad bow.

I was shooting well and never thought about changing anything. I was bent a little more at the waist than I needed to be and my head was forward more than needed, but I was hitting my anchor and thought all was well.

I have been spending a lot of time just drawing my bow holding, and putting the focus on my back tension. I am now able to come to draw and hold a little longer if I need to and feel no need to release the arrow on contact with my anchor. I now draw settle in focus on a spot and release. My daughter has been using a timer when I do this and the hold is between 1.45-1.79 sec I have her start the timer when I reach anchor. I also have done this holding for 5 sec and then release, this is for backyard practice no target just a focus on my form. For me this feels like forever because before she could not start and stop the timer fast enough to time me. I literally would draw hit anchor and the arrow was gone. I have practiced a lot holding for up to 20 sec for 3-5 reps and then 6 reps. But then I do another 5-10 reps holding for up to 15 sec. I will never be a really slow shooter it goes against my natural rhythm. The difference now is I actually take that extra second or two at full draw to settle into the shot. Feels so much better. Thanks Moebow [/b]
Forgot to add I too have been shooting for about 40 years give or take a couple. I guess we never stop learning, or should I say we should never cease to learn something new.
Title: Re: Terry's form-clock : question?
Post by: Mint on March 18, 2013, 09:59:00 AM
Well i decided to work on my form since i knew it wasn't the greatest, in fact it kinda sucked. I read through every post in this thread and it finally clicked for me what i needed to shoot for.

The problem I had was that
i could never get my elbow back to really clench my back muscles together. One of the members of my archery club thought my build would make that
impossible so i didn't pursue it.

Last monday though I took an arrow and picked up my bow and didn't put the arrow on the sting but pretended to draw and sure enough it felt like i was able to get the proper form. so all week i prqacticed drawing my 45lb drake reproduction all the while driving my wife crazy having her look at my form. On Sunday i was able to get down to the club and try it out and it seems i am there with my lighter bows. I might be a tiny bit off but if i am i think i can get there. I know i must be doing something right since the upper back muscles are killing me today so they got a good workout.

The reason why i'm posting is that don't convince yourself that your body type won't let you work towards this goal. Pick up your bow and pretend to draw with an arrow to see if your body can do it. Then if you see that you can it will go a long way to you actually reaching your goal.
Title: Re: Terry's form-clock : question?
Post by: Scott Barr on April 20, 2013, 12:32:00 PM
I am long-time compound shooter turned born again traditional the last two years.  Last year I felt I was progressing well with traditional...groups getting tighter and shooter better at 25 yds. Then for the last year I got worse and have diligently tried to work through the frustration.  Thought is was my release as my groups were all going from left to right. Bought different bows, changed my anchor, tried bunch of finger tabs, went form split finger to 3 under and back. All the while not getting better. Bought the form master after watching Bare Bow 4 DVD multiple times.  Not till using form master did I realize that my bow arm was about 2 " forward causing movement when shooting. Now, by consciously pushing the bow and shoulder back, my release arm pulls at with back muscles naturally.  What a jump in accuracy!!  I really appreciate Tradgang and learning from all the folks that are happy to share their many years with the stick.  Next is getting Terry's DVD.
Title: Re: Terry's form-clock : question?
Post by: FrankM on May 22, 2013, 12:11:00 AM
Thanks for the DVD! I also found the answer I needed.
Title: Re: Terry's form-clock : question?
Post by: Terry Green on June 13, 2013, 05:36:00 PM
Great!!!!!!!!  That is what it was intended for.
Title: Re: Terry's form-clock : question?
Post by: quail on June 28, 2013, 03:56:00 PM
Where can you order the video??
Title: Re: Terry's form-clock : question?
Post by: Terry Green on July 03, 2013, 06:30:00 PM
Go to PowWow and look for Tradgang Store banner over the list of topics....   :campfire:
Title: Re: Terry's form-clock : question?
Post by: Firstlight on July 03, 2013, 08:06:00 PM
Just ordered one yesterday, looking forward to watching the dvd.
 
Wish things didn't take so long to get up to the island here in Canada.

This thread has been helpful.  I'm unlearning some TP (short draw.)

I'm improving but relearning my form has me not shooting as well as I would like so it has it's frustrations.

New anchor (double), new draw and Moebow's rotational draw.

I do appreciate the effort and insights everyone contributes.
Title: Re: Terry's form-clock : question?
Post by: RonD on August 02, 2013, 08:10:00 AM
The most important question that I have, is "do you keep the bow arm straight and stiff or leave a slight bend at the elbow"? I have heard arguments that longbows require a slight bend in the bow arm, while the recurve requires a straight arm with locked elbow. A bent elbow for me lends itself to a shorter draw length. For me the locked elbow seems to work the best. And lastly, how does either method affect accuracy?
Title: Re: Terry's form-clock : question?
Post by: Terry Green on August 07, 2013, 07:00:00 PM
I think that is a personal question....and also depends on how you are built.

My arm doesn't over extend when locked, and still has a curve to it...I shoot locked, no matter recurve, longbow, or selfbow.  HH shot with a bent arm....didn't seem to effect his accuracy.

   :campfire:
Title: Re: Terry's form-clock : question?
Post by: JMR on August 31, 2013, 09:35:00 PM
I read this post from the beginning last night and I think I finally understand how to use you back muscles. Using your elbow to "close the door" is what made it click for me. I shot tonight and when I focused on closing the door with my elbow I noticed the difference. My shooting was all over the place but I think that is because I was concentrating on my elbow and back. Just wanted to say thank you Terry for putting that info out there in an easy to understand format. I relate well to stick people I guess! Lol!
Title: Re: Terry's form-clock : question?
Post by: Terry Green on September 01, 2013, 08:09:00 PM
JMR...stick folks was the easiest and fastest way for me to do it....sometimes time is what I need most.

Stay after it...when you change something, sometimes it takes time to get use to it...and groove it in.  Get all your energy going directly toward and away from the target, and your windage will be a non-issue...as long as your not torquing the string.

    :campfire:
Title: Re: Terry's form-clock : question?
Post by: JMR on September 03, 2013, 02:22:00 AM
I'm staying with it Terry. It already is starting to feel more natural and I think in the long run my accuracy will be much better. Thanks again
Title: Re: Terry's form-clock : question?
Post by: RonD on September 09, 2013, 12:32:00 PM
When viewing photos of people at full draw I notice that most are holding the bow vertical instead of canting the bow. I decided to give this a try with my recurve and was amazed at what a difference it made when holding the bow in a vertical position. My form and accuracy has also improved tremendously since I stopped canting the bow. Jonsimoneau also made the point in another thread that the muscles used to draw the bow is an important factor in shooting form and accuracy. When I draw the bow in a canted position I find that I tend to rely on the muscles in my drawing arm rather then the back muscles. Shooting the bow vertically has led me to use the back muscles and the back tension to draw and release, and has given me the essential alignment of the bow arm, arrow, and shoulders needed for a better shooting form. For me this has been a tremendous improvement overall in my shooting form and accuracy. This is a fantastic forum and has really helped me enjoy archery more than ever.
Title: Re: Terry's form-clock : question?
Post by: Terry Green on September 09, 2013, 01:04:00 PM
Ron....you should be able to draw the bow correctly no matter the cant....or even reverse cant.  

Stand straight up and draw the bow.....then lean over at the waist....why would there be any difference?....cause there's not. You can draw incorrectly standing straight up....seen it many times before...standing straight up doesn't guarantee good form.

Standing vertical may have helped you get alignment better, the that's the same feeling I get in all 3 of these positions....

 Over the Pond...... (http://www.tradgang.com/videos/tg/terry-2.wmv)

And, canting does NOT shorten your draw length if you are properly aligned.
Title: Re: Terry's form-clock : question?
Post by: RonD on September 09, 2013, 01:22:00 PM
My problem there may be the fact that I am not bending at the waist to cant the bow. Instead, I am standing straight up and canting the bow. Recent cervical spine surgery has forced me to change my shooting method and I am having to relearn form all over again. The titanium plates that they placed on the vertebrae to straighten a compressed spine limits my movements to some extent. That is the reason I am shooting the way I am and working to improve it everyday. Plus, being 70 years of age, the old body isn't inclined to make compromises. The way I am shooting now as stated in the earlier post has been a tremendous improvement and has helped me increase my draw weight. Everything you have posted on this thread has helped me and I thank you for that, because it has really helped. I will try the bending at the waist to cant the bow and see what happens.
Title: Re: Terry's form-clock : question?
Post by: Terry Green on September 17, 2013, 10:15:00 AM
Ron..if you are standing straight and canting...you could be torquing the string...are you canting your head with the bow?
Title: Re: Terry's form-clock : question?
Post by: RonD on September 20, 2013, 11:07:00 PM
I realized the other day that I was not canting my head with the bow. I tried what you suggested by bending at the waist and I was hitting high and left. When the rain stops I am going to see what canting the head along with canting the bow in a standing straight position. I really think I will shoot better if I cant the bow. Torquing the string is a definite possibility. Things are getting better with each shooting session and I am finally back to my original draw weight of 46#. Thank you so very much for all of your help in improving my form.
Title: Re: Terry's form-clock : question?
Post by: Terry Green on September 26, 2013, 06:34:00 PM
:thumbsup:
Title: Re: Terry's form-clock : question?
Post by: BE Wild Willy on November 14, 2013, 10:47:00 PM
Great stuff!!!

I'm waiting to receive my first Trad bow since the 80s and can't wait to try to work on proper form.

Much thanks from Shingletown...BEWW
Title: Re: Terry's form-clock : question?
Post by: RAGHORN 3 on December 20, 2013, 12:43:00 PM
Wow! I just read all 10 pages of this thread. I haven't even shot one arrow out of my new Wes Wallace Mentor or any trad bow for that matter, and I feel like I have a great starting focus point. Form! I will start 5 yards from the bale, totally focusing on the form clock.. Thanks Terry and all for contributing to this great formative thread.  Will order video to help me even more.
Title: Re: Terry's form-clock : question?
Post by: Luke777 on April 05, 2014, 11:20:00 PM
Hello everyone. This thread is going to help me a lot. I am teaching myself to shoot traditional and it is proving challenging to say the least. There is noone locally here in Cairns Australia that I have been able to track down YET who can show me how it's done. Terry, this is awesome information and watching you shoot a bow has me green! Two things (for now):   Am I correct in my observation that the bow does not pull straight back into the natural V/web of your bow hand and down through the line of your bow arm? To me it looks like the grip of your bow is pulling back into the base knuckle of your thumb or slightly to the right of the v formed by your thumb+index finger?? This may well be my eyes playing tricks but I am interested.
Also, do you ever ship internationally? I would LOVE the instructional help of your video.
Kind regards and MANY thanks.
Luke
Title: Re: Terry's form-clock : question?
Post by: Terry Green on April 07, 2014, 06:55:00 PM
Thanks guys...yeah...I'll ship the DVD to Australia.

Sorry I didn't see this earlier.

Take care and best to all.    :campfire:
Title: Re: Terry's form-clock : question?
Post by: Luke777 on April 08, 2014, 06:20:00 AM
Awesome. Thank you Terry. I'll send you an email to finalise details.
Great!!
Title: Re: Terry's form-clock : question?
Post by: Echo62 on October 24, 2014, 06:15:00 PM
Studying Terry's Form Clock and being inspired by Charlie Lamb's form in his shooting video (Not trying to copy Charlie's form, I'm just inspired by his alignment and release) have improved my shooting considerably.
Title: Re: Terry's form-clock : question?
Post by: Sarge5706 on July 12, 2015, 11:54:00 AM
This might be long so I'll get to the bottom line so those who don't want to read my story get the jist of it.......
Buy the dang gum DVD.
I have three hunting bows, a Bear Super Kodiak at 55#, a Bear Take-Down hunter with bolt on limbs at 50# and a Damon Howatt @45#.  I have split  arrows with all three of them, so the ability (along with luck)is there.  I shoot exculisively outdoors almost everyday in all conditions.  I won't shoot if the the wind is howling or it is single digit cold.  I shoot between thirty and fifty arrows each time out in strings of five.
What I lack is consistincy.  I have read alot of articles and books about flinging arrows including this topic's blog from start to finish.
I've tried a lot of different things, including a double anchor and still couldn't get consistent hits on target.  Finally I said what the hell and got the DVD.
It taught me a few things and reminded me of things I had forgotten.
One thing that I now know is that accuracy means doing what works.
I tried the double anchor and realized that my hands are too small or face too long to do it in the way that he describes.  Then I focused on two other things that he said.
The first is "dragging your hand across your face."  Now when I draw I drag the base knuckle of my thumb across my cheek starting at the corner of my mouth all the way back until my middle finger comes to anchor at the corner of my mouth.
The second thing that he said that hit home were the two words, "back tension."  I had read before from others about pulling with your back, but it wasn't until I heard those two words together that I was able to put it all together.
Before I thought I was using my back muscles, but I was only using the muscles on one side, but by thinking back tension, I realized what I was doing and corrected it.
Then I brought two things that I learned from my marksmanship training in the Marine Corps. (paraphrase) the most important arrow you will shoot all day is the one you have nocked.  And do the exact same thing each and every shot.
Now instead of hitting the target once or twice I am putting three and four shots into a 6 inch square.  When I send one flying, instead of thinking of several things I might of done wrong, I can narrow it down to one or two things and correct it right away.
Shooting is fun again
Title: Re: Terry's form-clock : question?
Post by: Terry Green on July 31, 2015, 03:57:00 PM
Thanks Sarge.....great to read posts like this.!!!

Stay after it!!!!

   :campfire:
Title: Re: Terry's form-clock : question?
Post by: Chain2 on May 05, 2016, 12:38:00 PM
Hello all. Thank you Terry. I drank the Kool-Aid and it works. I couldn't figure out the clock. I was shooting Hoid at 20. Beyond that inconsistent. But like Sarge said, once I saw the video and heard a few things, it's made a difference. The main thing for me was dragging across the face. I wasn't doing that. But now by dragging across my face my second anchor is repeatable. The best 8 bucks I've spent in a long time. Thanks again
Title: Re: Terry's form-clock : question?
Post by: Terry Green on June 08, 2016, 02:42:00 PM
GREAT!!!

   :clapper:    :clapper:    :clapper:
Title: Re: Terry's form-clock : question?
Post by: nhbuck1 on February 11, 2017, 01:30:00 PM
now how do you know when your shoulders are in line and you drew the bow back enough is there a way to tell?
Title: Re: Terry's form-clock : question?
Post by: Terry Green on March 06, 2017, 08:58:00 PM
Well, there might be....when you release....your bow hand should move STRAIGHT to the target and your elbow/draw hand should go STRAIGHT back.

You can also film yourself and see how you are doing....film from an elevated position from the rear.
Title: Re: Terry's form-clock : question?
Post by: Holybeardman on May 25, 2017, 01:05:00 PM
A little late to the party but I just made a purchase!

Looking to get more consistent and everything I've read has been of great help already.
Title: Re: Terry's form-clock : question?
Post by: Holybeardman on June 01, 2017, 06:14:00 PM
Hey Terry.

Just wanted to make sure you got my purchase for the Trad DVD.

Thanks in advance!
Title: Re: Terry's form-clock : question?
Post by: Terry Green on June 10, 2017, 01:55:00 PM
Yes....shipped last week...thx!
Title: Re: Terry's form-clock : question?
Post by: nhbuck1 on June 10, 2017, 04:17:00 PM
terry i have a question, if i start the draw in front of me more with the string hand like pulling a chainsaw i get a perfect shot but if i start the draw with hand resting on chest/stomach my shot fails is this due to the string angle and cant of the bow is different, it seems if im more forward with the string hand in the first position i stated i get a perfect shot, im wondering if my string hand is not at the same angle of the cant when i start at my stomach? what do you get out of this?
Title: Re: Terry's form-clock : question?
Post by: BijanO on November 03, 2017, 05:20:00 PM
Hi All,

The link in the early posts of this thread for the DVD do not seem to be working.

Any advice?

Thanks
Title: Re: Terry's form-clock : question?
Post by: wprovence on April 05, 2019, 12:01:06 PM
Hello,  I'm new here and also interested in seeing the video. Can some one repost a like to it?
Title: Re: Terry's form-clock : question?
Post by: Terry Green on September 17, 2019, 01:00:55 PM
DVD links are on another thread I started....Look for it by title.  Thanks.